Hi K, (Looked you up on Facebook, by the way (not like a stalker), so you might get a request to continue discussions!) The witness statements are from two managers - the first is the one who interviewed and decided to sack me. The second is from the manager who performed my appeals hearing and, at the very start of the hearing said "I'd have sacked you right away, too". Nice one! Both statements go into fairly deep detail. One of them is 18 pages long, the other 12 pages long. They are both, however, fairly repetitive. They go over the same points time and time again, which means I can rip them apart time and time again. It's silly. It's one of the reasons I appealed against the extension of the hearing - I knew they had little 'on me' and I didn't want to waste the time of the Tribunal. Both of the statements are full of inaccuracies, untruths and bullsh*t! Including one part that refers to me as a woman. Nice.

It's astonishing that people paid a hundred quid an hour can sometimes be so daft!

Hiya Ib, thanks for that. I'll still argue with them, I think : they've obviously searched more than just the subject line to get my other emails, so there's no doubt others popped up in the process of the search they conducted to get what they did so they've selectively picked which emails to submit and which to leave aside.... Naughty.

NEW WITNESS STATEMENT : OK, things are getting a bit more annoying now. Concerning an arrangement relating to the documentation I was expecting to be sent by the respondent, we had an arrangement as follows : “If either partywishes to make supplemental amendments to their statement(s) in light of suchdocuments, I suggest that we agree to do so once they have been received.Please note that this will not be an opportunity for either party to amendtheir statement(s) to reflect the other party's evidence. Such amendments muststrictly relate to the additional documents. I trust that this is clear.” I have now been sent an amended witness statement with amendments that do not relate IN THE SLIGHTEST to the documentation provided. I was provided with ONE email that had already been included in the bundle. As such, I replied to the above saying that I had not amended my witness statement and nor did I expect them to amend theirs. Do I just tell them to p*ss off, basically? How do I submit this information to the Tribunal, showing them that we agreed no changes but they went ahead regardless? Also, I want to submit more information, as mentioned in last post, and they're saying no..... They also say I have to give them my pay slips since leaving the company to prove my SoL. I've told them that there is no requirement at this stage to provide wage slips. I've told them that I will fiercely oppose the use of the new witness statement, as all of my notes an questions relate to previous paragraphs and remarks made in the previous witness statement.

In order to disprove some of the documentation they've sent me - namely their sales visit timetable showing I visited one client on a certain date - I spoke to some of the other clients I had to determine when I visited them around that time period. Long story short, the information I have proves that I could NOT have visited the client they claim I visited on the date they claim I visited them. I know I can submit this to the bundle, but considering we've exchanged witness statements, how can I refer to this to highlight it's relevance and importance? Cheers P.S. Also found myself being referred to as MISS KINGOFROD in one of the witness statements. Maybe they think I took time off for sex change surgery?

Oh Marie, hun, I wish it was that easy! I don't have access to my email account anymore as it's an internal company one. I had that access removed when they sacked me. No Outlook access, unfortunately, so no copies on my own computer. Damn it. What I think they may have done is search HIS computer and/or backup systems and he may have deleted everything from there. I highly doubt that it would have gone completely, though, and I really do believe they are witholding a lot of information. I doubt they'll have searched mine - or it may well all have been disposed of when I went - as I had EVERY email there between the two of us, but didn't think to pull them off before I had my access revoked. This is also why I don't consider their search to have been "reasonable", because if they had simply searched for my address in his email folders (current or archived), they would have found all my stuff.

Ibruk mate, can you point me in the direction of the DPA section that mentioned a search for a name in a title being considered "reasonable"? I'm not doubting you, so please forgive me if it sounds like I am, but I've been able to find nothing that suggests even close to that. I have found that there is no real definition of "reasonable and proportionate" and, in general, that's up to the Tribunal to decide. In this case, I'd argue that they haven't conducted a "reasonable and proportionate" search as they quite plainly haven't applied the same procedures to this search as they did the last. BTW, the respondent has also asked me for payslips from my current job to support my updated Summary of Loss, but I'm not going to provide them at this point. Is that OK? It's not a requirement that I provide this information at this point, or at all, unless requested by the Tribunal, I think? Further, the one email they did find did not have my name in the subject line, so have to argue that if that was their interpretation of "reasonable", they obviously searched to a greater extent than was "reasonable" in order to find that one email.

Hi mate, The thing is, there are dozens of emails between the two of us and so it's impossible for me to remember when they were sent. I'd have expected them to perform an email search by my account name, as that appears to have been what they've done with the other manager. They came back with ALL of the emails I'd ever sent to her, and all the emails she'd ever sent to me. My name was nowhere in the title/subject line of any of those emails. They obviously didn't conduct the same level of search for this second manager's emails as they did the first. Like I mentioned previously, I do have evidence that we had an arrangement in place and that my requests would be actioned without my being notified, but that's only one such example of about half a dozen or more instances of this happening. It's the second manager who I dealt with more regularly and they have produced only ONE email from me to him. The last email I sent to him before I was dismissed. I KNOW there are more. They ADMIT to there being more. How can they get away with not producing them? I didn't do an SAR. To be honest, in the early days, I was naive. I thought the company was going "through the motions", so to speak, and that I would be fine as they recognised I was a good, positive employee with an excellent attendance record. So I didn't pull emails from my account that I should perhaps have done. I'm running out of time, but I'd like them to get back into MY email account and pull the emails from there, if they claim they don't exist on the manager's.

Hi guys, Right, got loads of stuff through from the respondent. There's only ONE email between myself and the manager in question. The respondent claims to have carried out a "reasonable search" and found only ONE email between myself and this manager. Now, I know for an absolute fact that many more emails exist, or atleast existed. I shall, therefore, not withdraw my specific disclosure request, but if they say that this is the only email that exists, how do I fight them on it? Further, one of the other documents they re-sent shows a fairly significan inaccuracy. As mentioned previously, it shows me as having carried out a sales visit to a certain company on a day that I had asked this manager to take off work. It's a company I hve NEVER visited before, but the schedule shows me as having undertaken the sales call . How do I : a) get the emails I know to exist? b) tell the Tribunal that even the information they have provided is inaccurate I don't want to have to call this manager as a witness. I mean, I will if need be, but I'd rather there be a way around it. Can I call explicit notice in my updated statement to the fact that I'm not happy with the information that's been provided? Can I ask the respondent to check finalised company-wide sales visit logs, which should show exactly who made the sales visit, for security reasons? (while my personal log held by the company might show me as having done it in error, the company log should be 100% accurate) EDIT TO ADD : OK something I think is fairly positive... I've read over in fine detail the emails between myself and the second manager - the one I have all the emails to/from - and in one of her emails to me she refers to an email I sent to the first manager, from whom I'm not getting the documentation I know exists, that has not been provided by the respondent. So even if I can't get the emails, I will atleast be able to show the Tribunal that previous emails did exist and that the respondent is holding out. Yay. In my witness statement, can I say something like "despite numerous requests for and lengthy delays in being provided copies of all emails between myself and MANAGER1, only one email has been provided. However, in an email between myself and MANAGER2, MANAGER2 refers to an email I had sent to MANAGER1 a few days previously, proving that further email correspondence between myself and MANAGER1 did/does exist but is not being made available.

Yeah, it's pretty bad, but I guess they have a hell of a lot to contend with. I have to be honest, I've been EXTREMELY impressed with their 'service'. I mean, I've had fairly promptish and fair responses to all correspondence between the three of us (even when things hadn't gone in my favour, I found the responses justified and fair) and they've agreed to flights and hotels for me. The people I speak to down there all seem nice. Am I lucky? Have I found one of the best ET centres in the UK?!

I'm currently six beers deep and relaxing until I get going on the second witness statement later today. And, of course, until I get the other documentation I'm waiting for; at which point I need to update my own statement and re-paginate my references to the bundle. Well, I sent a Specific Disclosure Order request middle of last week. I've had no responde from the Tribunal, but did get a letter from the respondent appealing against my request. Later that same day I got a far less formal email saying that they'd get all these documents to me today. So I'm leaving them to it. I'm more than happy to let them keep shooting themselves in the foot when it comes to timing, as they've done throughout the process. I cannot help but think this will work in my favour....

Bliddy heck Ibruk. £100k, eh. Good luck. Is your case likely to hit the national headlines as a result of the size and nature of the claim? Oh, incidentally, I spoke to the Tribunal people today as I emailed them before speaking to you about the list of issues. They've come back and said that, as I'm not professionally represented, I can ignore the last case management order. In essence, I'm all set for the Tribunal. They need nothing more from me. We'll wait and see if I get the docs I'm waiting for from the respondent today. If not, I'll be p*ssed off.

I know it sounds a lot but it's 22 pages of repetitiveness, in many places. From his statement I have picked up 67 things I want to question him about. In each of those things I could have one question or two, sometimes three. Now, in those 67 things, the same questions are asked a number of times, so in reality there might only be about 20 questions or points and within them some of the sub-points are the same, if you get what I mean. I.E. He might say something to which I'll ask "do you acknowledge that the dog was brown?" Later, he might say something else, which will raise the question "do you acknoweldge that the dog was brown?" So while I've written the question on my list twice, I won't ask it twice it will have already been answered. UNLESS significant other information has come from previous answers that could have made him re-think his previous answer to something. It sounds worse than it is. As for leading questions, Ibruk, most of mine begin "do you acknowledge" or "don't you acknowledge that....", so fairly leading in that regard. I've re-done my schedule of loss. All in, including four weeks notice pay and the difference in earnings between dismissal and hearing, I'm looking for £5,500.00 plus other bits and pieces. I'll get that to them today.

Ibruk, thanks, excellent advice as always. You're right - I'm getting a bit stressed. I'm super busy at work at the moment and so I'm fighting to find time to do al the stuff I still need to do. I've got about 22 pages of questions for the first witness and expect, on that basis, about 14 pages of questions for the second. I still need to sort out flights, hotel etc, and that's also a bit stressful. I don't want to book too early incase the respondent comes back with an offer and it's wasted money, but I don't want to leave it so late that I miss the boat (or plane). I will take a deep breath, count to ten, and go through things more calmly. I have four days off in a couple of days to really focus. Forgive me, but what's CMD? I am sure I know but I cannot think of it! I'll be glad when it's all over and hopefully be able to hang around here and share my experiences with others, as you've done Ibruk, when I've some first hand experience.

Go for it then, mate. Go for it!

Ah. Hmmm. Yeah, that's not brill. Do you have a copy of his statement given during the investigation performed by the company? It might be worth submitting that and making sure to draw specific reference to it in your own witness statement to make sure the Tribunal take note.... I guess the Tribunal might issue an order to have him attend, but you have to consider your own conscience, I guess, and ask yourself whether you'd be happy putting him through that. Interesting one.

Replied. Hope of help. Hope accurate! Check your PMs.

If you haven't exchanged witness statements yet, no, you haven't left it too late. The bundle and witnesses are seperate, from what I gather. I have included in my bundle some "for reference only" statements from a variety of people. These are things like character references and letters from my uncle and his wife to confirm that I was needed by them in Manch during my uncle's bed-ridden phase. I didn't want to call these people to actually stand because of the stress it might cause them. When you come to exchange official witness statements, you will have to call each person who has provided a statement so you still have time. Why do you think this person would refuse to attend? Are they on you side, or likely to be against you?

14 very full pages...... I've got 14 pages of questions for the first of their two witnesses. Suspect I'll have a not dis-similar number for their second. Thing is though that there's a lot of repetitiveness in the questions I have. The first witness speaks of the same thing repeatedly so I have the questions written down repeatedly to ask him. Course, things always seem longer on paper, so when spoken aloud the statements will probably only last fifteen minutes a piece, if that. I will try and get the SOL updated today. Need to start on the list of issues today, too, but as mentioned, I don't know where to begin, despite Ibruk's excellent sample. I was hoping I wouldn't have to do this as the instructions from the Tribunal say "if both parties are professionally represented". I read that to mean that this was a very legal document and not something that a lay person would tend to be able to produce, and so the Tribunal worked without it in instances where one or both parties are without professional representation.

Cheers K. Starting to get a little anxious as I'm just over a week out now and need to : a) redo SOL and get this through to Tribunal and respondent b) await final documentation from respondent which they promise will be with me tomorrow > > > i) failing this, chase up my request for a SDO c) use this information to update my witness statement d) ensure the respondent updates the bundle accordingly to include all of this new information and gives me an opportunity to update my page number references in my own statement e) complete the list of issues that is due a week out - I have no idea where to begin with this

Hi K, yeah - I did submit it earlier, but in it I said I'd made no loss and wasn't looking for any financial reward. Having re-done my quackulations, I'm quite a bit out of pocket and will continue to be so as my previous job paid significantly more than my new one. I had hoped that by saying I wasn't looking for financial reward and putting a VERY reasonable settlement offer through to them (involving NO money whatsoever), they might play ball. As it happens, they didn't, so I looked at my figures again and have found about £500.00 a month in shortfall between old job and new.

Is that aimed at me? If so, yay! I like to think they're clutching at straws a bit, too. I recognise the timing of everything was a bit suspect, but nobody can control when someone has a fall and hurts themselves. I was able to provide confirmation from the Dr. that the fall had happened and that I was needed at home, I was able to provide evidence of an arrangement being in place by which I could secure time off. I really quite like my chances. I need to get onto my new Statement of Loss/Remedy, though. Do you think there's a deadline as to when I can submit this? Cheers again, I.

Looks like your stuff has been split from mine..... Will keep an eye on it.

Hi K, No experience of that myself, to be honest. Hopefully Ibruk or Becky et al will come along with some insight. I would say that I hope the Tribunal falls on your side on this one. They've have plenty long enough to get the documentation to you and delays of this long just seem purposefully disruptive, if you will. I would probably consider asking of the Tribunal that they throw out the respondent's appeal. They can ask that your claim be thrown out if you don't meet deadlines, and I think they're taking the p*ss a bit with the delays, so just as if the respondent didn't reply on time to the original ET1, I think you may be able to request that they not be permitted to continue their involvement and the Tribunal would automatically find in your favour, or hold the Tribunal in their absense. I'm spitballing. Let's wait for someone more knowledgeable!

The respondent has offered a "dates only reference" which is something, I believe, they offer all employees anyway. I just don't think that's appropriate as it basically involves me almost justifying the action they took against me, which I feel went a step too far. I was late replying to the original CMO, the remedy, by a day. They requested the case be thrown out. They're appealed against my request for a specific disclosure order, which I don't understand the point of at all. I mean, if it's issued, what's the harm to them? I just don't get it. In general, they've just been really quite difficult. Shouldn't expect differently, though. I recognise that they probably have a fairly strong case, but it's all circumstancial. I'd been discussing (on that blasted Facebook) looking for another job as my Uncle's health was deteriorating and I thought being based full time in Manchester would be of benefit. The place I was working at part-time had offered me a permanent contract and a promotion at around the same time as my Uncle's fall. So my primary employer is saying that I took the month off work, blamed the need to take time off on my Uncle's fall, but had actually been wanting to 'try out' this new job without having to leave my main job. That's basically the basis of their case against me. I'll be the first one to admit that the timing is suspicious all round, but as far as I'm concerned, I've provided evidence that my Uncle fell and needed care, I've provided evidence that I had an arrangement in place to secure the time off work and had not been given cause to doubt that the time off had been granted, I will question what relevance my postings on Facebook really have - is there a law against am employee seeking the advice of his peers about a potential career move? Until I hand in my notice to my employer, as far as they should be concerned, I still work there and it's inappropriate for them to make assumptions to the contrary. I really am reliant on the Tribunal recognising that, as an employee with ten years of unblemished service, the timings here were simply unfortunate and coincidental and that the employer shouldn't have jumped to conclusions about my intentions.