hi ,yes have sent et1 off, no my back injury is not work related and yes from early 2011 occupational health had been involved, this still did not stop my unpaid sendings home though, yes they used the reasonable belief issue, with regards the cctv and at the time of my dismissal the annonymous witness, who i now know but was still not allowed to talk direct with him during my appeal, all i was given was a second statement stating he heard a noise late on and that indicates me on the cctv, we will wait to see what develops with the return of the et3 from my ex employer. thanks

hi thanks for response. yes the above is true i did not know who the informant was at the time of my dismissal and was not allowed to speak to him, but at my appeal stage i was told who he was and yes work said that this person that i named was the informant but despite my request to again ask him myself they presented a signed statement from him stating the same as before, they also gave me a statement from the last person to enter the toilets after myself . this person did not see any damage and yes he did speak with the informant but the informant did not mention the damage ie water on the floor, i do have good evidence that has been obtained but cannot disclose this , so we will await the et3 response from work , thanks all

thanks all, i lost my appeal and am now entering my ET claim, i have evidence to support the fact that i am not the one who caused the damage so will keep you all informed, manyu thanks

hello and again thanks for reply, yes work assisted a little by putting me on restrictive duties, these areas had been set by the company physio in 03/2011 and 10/2011 but ONLY after i asked for this help, they NEVER started any action it was always me. the last time i was sent home unpaid was 2 days before the event of the damage, but on the day i was last sent home before this damage i asked for a meeting with the production manager about my getting sent home, this was the same person who dismissed me, in this meeting he stated that he could do nothing until my last physio works appt. so i left happy that maybe something good will come of it all, after the date of the damage i had several issues before my suspension , as it it nearly 4 months since the damage happened, and nearly six weeks since my dismissal i will start my et this week, any responses welcome

hello and thanks for reply I do now know the identity of the informant because the said informant has told all this to my friend who has told me, yes i was sent home unpaid 7 times last year, yes my injury is to my lower back and is still being treated to this day. i have had this back issue for nearly three years and i do believe that this incident was related to my restrictive abilities. the imformant stated thathe heard a noise 2 mins from him leaving the toilets and that puts me in the frame, but the informant as stated was made to change shifts around this time so in my opinion was the most likely to have caused it, i also understand that i have little chance of getting the job back but will do it if only for it helping with the et claim that will start soon, any more advice before i attend the meeting and legal team ? thanks

hello all still no reply, any help welcome, thanks

hello all, thanks for replies, appeal hearing soon, i will see my legal advisor before then. during the year 2011 i was sent home unpaid because i could not undertake all duties due to my medical ability, i was unpaid for these events, no meeting about why i would be sent home or letter, my contract states 42hr per wk, so as i see it this was breach of my contract so this current event leads me to believe that the above situation was taken into account as well. Also i now know who the witness informant is, he has admitted this to my work friend and states that he was constantly asked to provide a statement by work and done so under pressure, but he said he is not willing to provide a statement saying this for fear of his own job, this witness was not named but his department was during my disciplinary meetings by myself because i had a good idea who it was in the end. this person around this time was made to change shifts due to an alteration in his department and i stated that this person worked in this department had good reason to cause the damage due to changing shifts and loosing close work mates, this was not even considered before my dismissal, yet now proves that i was correct in the witness being that of one who had reason . do you think i have a right to ask for this person to now be present for my appeal?????????????? all advice welcome, oh by the way if the appeal does not get overturned then i will start my tribunal claim

Hello all, i see many viewings but not much advice about my situation and my appeal hearing, all advice welcome,

Hello,in answer to your questions, yes they did explain the reason for dismissal and that was damage to company property under gross misconduct and i did have the right to appeal and this will be in writing. I did ask why the witness remained annonymous and was told that he wishes for it to remain that way and that it is signed. I think they meanthat the signature from informant is about his wanting to remain annonymous not the actual statement. The e mailed statement sent some 16 days after event was questioned by me and the response was that they being the manager was happy with the timescale. The e mailed statement didi have the informants details on but my copy had been blanked out these details or so they said. I have checked my disciplinary policy and no mention about any witnesses on there. So in my summary dismissal work have relied on an annonymous statement that the informant stated he heard damage around 2 mins before i left the toilets and that the cctv showed me exit around this time.the last person to enter never interviewed because work said damage already done. But this last person never reported this to management, so i have been sacked on the basis of an annonymous witness. How do i approach the appeal process because just before he told told me i was dismissed he stated that i had constantly from the start blamed others and that i put in no mitigating circumstances. So all advice welcome

Hello again. Could anyone offer me advice on how to defend myself for the appeal hearing against my summary dismissal,all that was said in the disciplinary hearing was that i had no mitigating circumstances. All i done was use the urinal no more, i need to try to overturn this decision so any help please. Also if i loose the appeal then have i got a case for unfair dismissal? Thanks

hello, all that was said was that i done the act based on the anonymous witness, he heard noises and said it happened within the last few mins, so based on that they decicded to terminate my employment, also stated by manager that i had repeatedly failed to take responsibilityfor my actions and tried to blame others. yes they did tell me about appeal hearing, i asked why the witness remained secret and was told that he asked to remain anonymous, thats it . no have not got it in writing. and no the name of witness blanked out in emailed statement, the other talks with informant are just that they are only verbal between manager and witness, many thanks is this unfair dismissal?, if i dont get anywhere with the appeal then next step is tribunal do you all agree

Hello all, after my second disciplinary hearing i had the result today. Yes the manager never took any notice and sacked me today, i will now appeal , advice by all welcome

No one hgot any more advice before i meet with my solicitor??????????????. Thanks.

they are deciding to keep all witness identity secret from me, yes i am represented. what i want to know is why are they not listening to the start of the statement ?? instead they are remaining with the very last sentence thanks...................

no these are my questions for them before the disciplinary meeting starts again

can anyone tell me why work are more interested than the last sentence of the statement ?, rather than concentrate on the first paragraph when it clearly states that the event happened early ? ...........................................

HELLO ALL, HAD DISCIPLINARY HEARING, MEETING ADJOURNED SO I CAN PRESENT CASE I MORE DETAILED ORDERED FASHION. THEY BEING WORK ARE STILL GOING WITH IMFORMANT STATEMENT AND ARE STATING THE VERY LAST SENTENCE OF THE FIRST STATEMENT ALONG WITH THE CCTV FOOTAGE WHICH SHOWS ME ENTER AND EXIT ONLY, I WILL WORD THE STATMENT FOR ALL TO SEE AND ADVISE BEFORE I GO BACK TO SEEK MORE LEGAL ADVICE, I WILL PRESENT TWO STATMENTS. QUOTE 1ST STATEMENT SENT VIA EMAIL 16 DAYS AFTER EVENT................ to the best of my ability i will be as acurate as possible as it was over 2 weeks now, i recall being in the furthest or end wall cubicle, during my time i was in the lavatory i think only 2 people, or the same person came in whilst i was there.the first appeared to only be in there for an extremely brief time, as if they didnt use the facilities at all. the second a few minutes later, who by the sounds of it , used the urinals in a normal fashion, then based on the noise i heard, proceeded to violently kick something, repeatedly for about 8 to 10 secs, which sounded hollow or wooden, and not masonry. i was immediately alarmed as it was very loud and gave me quite a shock. my first thought was why were the cubicles not moving or responding to the kicks or blows being showered upon them,and in an instant realised the blows must be directed at something else,...but i couldnt imagine what. i didnt quickly picture any other area so close that could sound like what i was hearing. the person then left without pausing to wash hands. i completed my visit to the cubicle and came out expecting to find immediate signs of vandalism or destruction to something, but i didnt see anything right away.it was only when i looked further around that i spotted the centre urinal leaking quite heavily from the u-bend water trap, now finally explaining the results of the kicking.tell tale witness marks had been left, by a black object/boot sole, on the water trap and the kicks had clearly followed through to the wood paneled false wall behind the urinals, explaining the hollow noise.after staring in disbelief at the actions of totally unnecessary destruction for a short period, i washed my hands and left passing CULPRIT D MY WORDINGS EVERYONE CANT MENTION NAMES on the way out. i didnt pause to mention the above to CULPRIT, but went to inform the shift manager.the time between the person in question leaving the toilets and me leaving the cubicle was approx.2 mins. THATS THE STATEMENT. BECAUSE WORK SAY THE CCTV MATCHES THE VERY LAST SENTENCE THEN THATS IT, IVE ARGUED ABOUT THE FIRST SECTION OF THE STATEMENT TO NO AVAIL, SO BEFORE I PUT THE SECOND STATEMENT ON WHICH THEY ARE NOT USING BECAUSE THEY NOW CHOSE TO GO ALONG WITH THE FIRST STATEMENT BUT IN THE INVESTIGATORY MEETINGS TWO OF THEM CHOSE TO BELIEVE THE SECOND STATEMENT, ADVISE PLEASE , ALL TIMES ARE MENTIONE IN EARLIER POSTS THANKS .........................................

thanks for response, i thimk its all a set up any advice before i see my solicitor thanks

Hello, the damage to other toilets happened before this incident, but after this event blood was smeared onto walls of toilets, on another shift, i asked about this and was again brushed aside with the fact that all incidents are fully investigated, the informants first statement states that he did wash his hands, the manager finds me a hinderence to his shift due to my restrictive abilities, before september all was fine in work, september i was sent home unpaid 5 times due to no work being available for me. Now i stated that 3 out of the 5 times i was sent home i had been doing that job before september with no issue, i was then told that because it was not on my work physio assessment due only to a clerical error that i was not allowed on this task yet before september was allowed on it, then they being manager said that the crewing had been cut back so i would not be able to rotate on that role which is untrue, other incidents have happened this year including him telling me that i will never be trained the way you are. Meaning because of my restrictions im useless, finally i have never been sat down and signed anthing to agree to these deductions from my pay. Lastly i questioning the actual statements if they are not signed then does this mean that they being the informant does not exist?.................................. Thanks

Hello, to clarify, informant in at 11.30.03 out at 11.50.11. 1st culprit in at 11.31.51. Out at 11.31.58 so 7 seconds, 2nd culprit in 11.35.13. Out 11.35.43, so 30 seconds, 3rd culprit me in at 11.46.36 out at 11.47.09, so 33 seconds, culprit 4 in at 11.49.55 out dont know not told, informant out at 11.50.11 so 20 minutes inside toilet. When i entered i never saw anything or heard anything, just used the urinals and left.the first informant statement taken before i was suspended and taken 16 days after the allegation states in it that the second person described as a few minutes later caused the damage, this is timed at 3.55 after culprit 1 left.it states thatwitness heard damage for between 8 -10 seconds kicking sounds. Two urinals damaged as stated in photograph taken after event, but they are only investigating one urinal damage because the informant stated that he only saw one urinal leaking but on his second statement remembers about the othe oneas well. Other toilet damage has recently happened as well including bodily fluids being put on the walls of both m and f toilets. When i enquired about this i was told that all attempts had been undertaken but these proved to be futile. This being after we all had a letter from the operations director stating that there are ways of finding who this person are, but no action was taken the first witness statementstates that the 2nd culprit done it and at the end also states that this happened 2 mins before informant left meaning me, i stated that this ending sentence stating this two minute timescale does not seem to be in keeping with the rest of the statement, ie i think its been added. The manager said he would talk to culprit 4 and informant again culprit 4 never spoke to , informant spoke to again 30 days after allegation. Infornant said in the 1st statement that 1 or 2 people entered , the second statement that positively 2 or 3 entered but the damage definately happened 2 mins beforew he left, meaning me. This second statement was again unsigned. Also stated on the second statement that he saw the damage to the other urinal but never mentioned this the first time around. Finally culprit 4 entered 16 seconds before informant left, i asked why informant never mentioned this to culprit 4, why did culprit4 not mention about any damage, many thanks any advice before i see my solicitor and the disciplinary hearing , finally the manager mentioned his resonable belief for his reason

:sad:no did not do it . just used the urinals and left. thanks

Hello everyone, as i am new to this site please be patient with me, im facing a disciplinary hearing in work soon. The allegation is gross misconduct being more specific damage to the work urinals, work have shown me still images of people entering the toilet including myself within a timescale via the corridor cctv, and have provided an unsigned witness statment who states that they heard the damage actually happen, in the first witness statement it states that the first person in was in there for only an extremely brief time, this has been proven by the images as 7 seconds, then described on the statement a second a few minutes later entered and caused the damage, this has been timed as 3 mins 55 seconds, then i enter some 15 minutes after the first person left, the witness then states that after 20 minutes in the loo they left and told manager, passing the last person to enter without telling them any thing, now the informant and the last person where in there for 12 secs together without talking, then at the end of the statement it states that the damage happened just before the informent left, so meaning me, when it states that he said at the start of the statement that the second person a few minutes later caused the damage, i gave my side of the story then my manager said he will have to arrange another investigatory meeting , meeting with the informant again and also the last person to enter, he never interviewed the last person only this informant who clearly states on the second again unsigned statement that it happened just before i left, in the managers e mail about this second statement he states that he found this meeting useful. now the first statement was taken 16 days after the alleged event and the second statement 30 days after the allegation and more importantly the second statement was when i was suspended i stated that most know about my suspension so that the informent must know as well and therefore this statment is tarnished and completely different to the first, my manager did not listen and has found me guilty , so the next step is this disciplinary hearing, it has to be mentioned that the first manager is my own and does not have great feelings for me because im on restrictive duties he finds me a hinderence to his shift, i have reasons for this as well, so thanks and please give me some advice.................. ..............