Hi PT

I only have ONE account with yourselves so the collection of two amounts of arrears still results in ONE account being in arrears. This should result in one lot of charges being applied not the two Bristow & Sutor have charged.

In your first post you list 2 different years, what you should do first is confirm with the Council how many Liability Orders there are. If as you say they cover 2 different years then yes there are 2 orders they are collecting upon so therefore the above is untrue.

There are 2 liability orders both issued in May of this year. B & S have visited with the intention of collecting on both on the same visit. Hence 1 visit for both orders, then a second visit for both orders, then 2 levies on the same vehicle. It's my understanding that the fees are supposed to be reasonable for covering their costs.

If what your saying is true then if they were collecting on 10 liability orders on the same visit they could charge 10 first visits even though their costs have not increased.

B & S have only shown the amount as 2 different years of council tax on working out their costs on all other correspondences they only show a total amount and ask for 1 reference number to be quoted when paying/querying.

The fact that the above fees have been knowingly charged by the bailiff is clearly fraudulent behaviour and as such is a chargeable under the Fraud Act 2006, Section 4(1)©(i).

You need to be careful what you say here. If they are only listed as their fees it is not quite the same. If however your account is paid off then the above could be true & if so should be reported as a crime & not as a complaint.

Again with this one the way the fees have been applied and levying on a vehicle that would be lucky to collect £800 in auction would not cover the even half the money owing and even less after the costs have been deducted. Doesn't this clause relate to making charges for the sole benefit of financial gain?

It's my friends intention to point out to the council that B & S have been behaving unlawfully and have the council take the debt back as if the fees were applied reasonably then B & S have been paid everything they are owed.

Once he starts dealing with the council again he still intends to report B & S.

If I have got anything wrong here then I apologise. I'm here seeking advise and welcome any and all help given.

OK this a copy of the letter my friend is think of sending.

Ref No: xxxxxxxxxxx

Dear Sir/Madam

I am hereby lodging a formal against your agents Bristow & Sutor whose services you have employed for the collection of Council Tax arrears.

My reasons for the complaint are the unlawfully and fraudulent application of excessive charges.

I only have ONE account with yourselves so the collection of two amounts of arrears still results in ONE account being in arrears. This should result in one lot of charges being applied not the two Bristow & Sutor have charged.

Also I have been charged TWO levy fees on the same vehicle. Again only ONE levy fee IF ANY should have been charged.

With regards to the fees and levy charges I of course refer to The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 Schedule 5 paragraph 2 (1) (b) .

By using this formula the maximum I should have been charged is £61 NOT the £199.50 Bristow & Sutor have charged.

I have also been charged a Redemption of Goods fee (head H) of £24.50. This is ANOTHER fee I should not of been charged according to Section 45 (4).

The fact that the above fees have been knowingly charged by the bailiff is clearly fraudulent behaviour and as such is a chargeable under theFraud Act 2006, Section 4(1)©(i).

I do not need to remind you as Bristow & Sutor are acting as your agents then you are wholly liable for the actions.

As £xxx.xx was paid on xx/11/10 I believe Bristow & Sutor now owe you £xx.xx which I will expect to go towards clearing my arrears.

As I expressed in my telephone conversation on 17/11/10 now that I'm aware of these arrears I am more than happy to enter into a reasonable repayment plan with yourselves.

I look forward to your prompt reply so that we may come to an amicable agreement.

comments?

Thanks for that hallowitch. That means B & S have charged more than 3 times the amount they are legally allowed to charge!

Definitely a case of deliberately charging more because they hope you don't know the law.

I'll be polite and tell them their agents have been acting illegally and they are responsible for them. That I look forward to their prompt response whilst I seek legal advice.

Well first off I would like to say thanks to everyone so far with the advice and info, it's been a BIG help!

I'm going to be getting my serious letter writing head on later and see what the council come back with.

Is there a resonable time limit my friend should expect here?

Hi seanamarts, the more I read the more obvious it is that B & S are at it.

Also with the liability orders my friend didn't receive them despite being on the electoral role in his current address since Oct 06!

Just worked out what is should be then.

Council Tax + Costs £780.30

Council Tax + Costs £493.69

Amount Due £1273.99

First Visit £24.50

Second Visit £18

Total Amount Due £1316.49

First £100 @ 24.5% = £24.5

Next £400 @ 4% = £16

£816.49 left @ 2.5% = £20.41

So levy would be £61 (60.91) plus redemption of goods fee (Head H) of £24.50

this would be a total of £85.50 NOT £199.50 that they are claiming.

Being that my friend has already paid them £105 B & S ACTUALLY owe the council £19.5!

So after a bit more digging regarding the double fees would this be relevent as well?

Fraud Act 2006, Section 4(1)©(i) intends, by means of the abuse of that position—

(i)to make a gain for himself or another

From what I can read in The Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 Schedule 5 paragraph 2 (1) (b) of the Regulations

It mentions liability order (singular) but can't find anything stating multiple liability orders at the same time. Or is it a case of mentioning the above case aswell?

Would hate to see B & S get away with this on a technicality!

Thanks hallowitch, currently reading through the regulations

SCHEDULE 5 CHARGES CONNECTED WITH DISTRESS

I take it this is the is what you mean?

Hi Sillygirl1, is that the same for the visit costs? If so there some legislation or guidelines he can quote to council?

I had a chance to speak to my friend last night to see what documentation he has received.

He received his final warning at timed at 6pm and twenty minutes later received Notice of Seizure of Goods, Inventory of Goods and Memorandum of Amounts Due.

The amounts due are:

Council Tax & Costs £780.30

First Visit £24.50

Second Visit £18.00

Levy on Goods £49.00

Council Tax & Costs £493.69

First Visit £24.50

Second Visit £18.00

Levy on Goods £41.00

Redemption of Goods Fee £24.50

Total Amount £ 1473.49

Being that it looks like the council have the wrong amount for the first council tax as it still has to have a 25% single occupancy discount and was overcharged on the second amount by 2 – 3 months will this make the levy fees wrong?

Also with regards to seanamarts comment about not being able to charge sets of fees for visits, is this right IF there are 2 liability orders?

Can they charge levy TWICE on the same car?

The council informed my friend that they can't take the account back of B & S because of the levy But could if they have acted illegally!

He did inform the council they are liable for B & S actions.

Thanks in advance.

Having used this site to help with my own queries, looking once again to dip into the knowledge fount of the caggers!

My friend (honest) has had a couple of visits from B& S whilst at work and has chosen to ignore their hand delivered letters (sealed in brown envelope with his name only on it and marked private and confidential).

However that changed when they left 2 envelopes one night at 6 PM and realised they had levied his car!

The total amount he is now owing is £1473.49 for outstanding council tax. He broke the cardinal rule and phoned them to sort this out. He told them the most he could pay was £100 a month but they said this wasn't enough and then proceeded to ask him the following questions.

Name, DOB, NI number, phone number, email address, did he work and where, how much he earned, was he single, how much his partner earned, her name!

At first he answered all the questions till it came to his partners name, then queried why they needed all of this but he realised the damage was then done!

They have told him he needs to pay monthly payments of £342 then the remainder.

The car they levied on is worth about £800 at the most so wouldn’t cover the bill and the charges.

He has already paid the first instalment but knows he can't afford the next!

I have got him to phone the council to ask about the amount he owes and it's

£750.30 + £30 court costs (2004 – 2005)

£459.69 + £40 court costs (2005 - 2006)

There are 2 liability orders that were granted in May of this year.

He moved in November 2005 but they have asked him to confirm this and they will amended the second amount. He also asked if the amounts he is owing include the single occupancy discount and was told they did.

But checking online his old house is classed as band A and the full amount for 2004/05 is the same as the first cost! He will be phoning the council again in the morning to sort this!

He has also been charged 2 lots of First and Second visit charges and levy!

Is this enough to put the account in dispute or get his payments reduced?

Ok DebT thanks for the clarification

Hi SG, as far as the outstanding CCJ is concerned I'll play the waiting game.

I'm more concerned now with the discrepancies and BH updating my credit report after almost 8 months of the satisfied CCJ. Does this mean their record will drop of now on 11/01/13 instead of 30/11/11?

I've now had a more indepth look at the three reports and equifax show a loan from black horse as date satisfied 30/11/05 and updated on 11/01/07! Being as this was a secured loan when I had my mortgage problems I ended up getting a CCJ from this that shows up as satisfied on 22/05/06. Is this a case of BH playing silly beggers and increasing the length of time this will appear on my credit report?

Also slightly of topic but thinking of SARing them and seeing if I can hit them for PPI and charges, any thoughts?

I've now checked all 3 credit reports and all of them show late payments on my mortgage and no defaults, so guess I was lucky there!

I am suprised at the differences and discrepancies between them all though. From a score of 900 on experian to 585 on callcredit and the record details of accounts and searches vary between them!

I guess it's just pot luck with what companies decide to use them!

Well I've now just checked my Equifax report and lo and behold nothing extra on there! Although Cabot have updated my callcredit report with linked/confirmed address in March of this year. Looks like I'm of down to the post office lol

Ok so I have just checked my callcredit report and it shows the same info as expirian.

But it shows cabot as confirming and linking my old and current address!

Have to wait till Monday to check my EquIfax one, got a funny feeling its gonna be the same...

Ok I'll be getting the CCA request off at the weekend ( just use the standard one from here?) and see what that brings!

£1 postal order and DON'T sign print! That much I have learnt lol

DonkeyB I sure am lol

Kind of thought I might still owe some money (long Story) but was worried of what i might find and was pleasently suprised I what I have so far found. Now its just a case of making sure I'm not paying for anything I don't need too!

So I should stop paying Equidebt and CCA Cabot?

I have only checked my experian report so far and that debt is not showing! Will be checking the others soon.

Part of the problem is I don't know who the original creditor is (could be one of two I had) and as for bank statements I'm no longer with that bank and haven't been for 5 years! But that's a whole other story!

Have realised I have lost any money paid so far, lesson learnt! But trying to make sure I don't have to pay any more.

Previous correspondance was a letter asking me to contact them I think! Problem was I moved house 5 years ago so think they were trying my old address.

Ok so picture the scene. It's 23 December 2009, 2 days to Christmas and on holiday until after New Year, couldn't get much better!

Then I get the following letter in the post.

Dear Mr My Name

Creditor: Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd

Client Reference: XXXXXXX

Our Reference: XXXXXXXXX

Outstanding Balance: £8XX.XX

Equidebt are a debt collection company who have been instructed by Cabot Financial (Europe) Ltd to collect the outstanding balance of your account. One of our debt collectors will be contacting you at either your home or place of work to arrange payment in full.

We require payment in full no later than 28 December 2009

Details on how to contact us and all payment options are set out on the back of this letter.

Payment in full of this debt will improve your credit rating which may make it easier for you to obtain credit in the near future. Call us on XXXXX XXXXXX to avoid further escalation.

By agreeing a repayment plan with us to clear this debt today, further action will be prevented.

Yours sincerely

So probably like most people it's a case of shock then panic (exactly what they are after) of someone turning up at your door especially at Christmas.

So naturally I contacted them and arranged a monthly payment plan.

Now that I have discovered this site and realised in my naivety that I had just accepted this without any questions!

So what I'm wanting to do is rectify this as I think the debt might actually be statue barred as I think it is an old credit card debt. Probably stopped paying this sometime around 2003.

Now do I sent a CCA request and/or breakdown of costs?

Thanks in advance and sorry for the epic!

Well I think the best thing is to bide my time just now until March ( let sleeping dogs die).

Don't think its giving me too much grief just now as I did manage to get a new debit card account at the weekend.