Well there was no joy from T-Mobile! In short if you dont seek out your terms and conditions, they dont have any obligation to tell you what they are. ALL WRONG IN MY VIEW. I will go blustering to the Ombudsmen anyway as people should be made aware of what the terms and conditions are in advance, not retrospectively and the company should be able to demonstrate that they have provided this to you and you have read and understood them. A requirement in almost every other form of business, but not the mobile phone industry??? Strange Onwards and upwards!

Hi Nucurro The 31.14 is much the same as the 31.15, but the timescale for a reply to the 31.15 is only 7 days, rather than 14 days for the 31.14. Link eventually sent me a copy of the credit agreement, but not in the timescale given. They will probably not send it within the 14 days. The 14 days is calculated from date of posting and they are working days, so, send this off as soon as possible. Just warning you so that you dont feel like giving up if it turns up, like I did. Its not unusual, so dont be scared if they do send it eventually. It doesnt substantiate their claim on its own. They will probably send you a letter to say it could take up to 30 days as they have to get it from the Original Creditor, but having made a claim, they should have already had all of the particulars to make the claim (I hope your getting the drift). Whatever you do Do Not delay sending in your embarrassed defence to the court within 28 calendar days from the date of acknowledgement. If you dont do that, a judgement will be made against your wife. As a great Cagger said to me, they should have all of the necessary documentation prior to making acourt claim, but they rely on people getting scared and just giving in. I understand that they even offer you a Tomlin Order which is where a judgment made against you doesnt show on your credit file, but you will be paying them money. I dont believe they can offer anyone a Tomlin Order as its at a judges descretion and a solicitor needs to draw up papers to request this from a judge. Somehow I cant see them doing that on our behalf. Once agreed you have acknowledged the debt and they have what they want. I havent had the priviledge of such an offer yet. I used the 31.15 much later when they wrote to me with a letter to sign to accept judgment. As my defence was already filed, I didnt want to seem as though I had ignored their attempts to sort out this claim out of court. I wanted evidence which I could produce that clearly stated what the requirements were. I knew full well that they wouldnt provide what I had asked for, so it was just a way of keeping my defence sound just in case it gets to court. I added that I wouldnt respond to any further correspondence until they fully complied with the CPR requests. I have had another letter since, but do not intend to respond as I made it very clear in the last letter. I can give you a copy of that letter when you need it. Just take this one step at a time. Im still going through it so really do understand the way it feels. Their actions have been exactly as other Caggers described and so many people who dont know about their actions end up with judgments against them because they dont feel they can do anything about it. Do you have a house? As I have been told that if they find that out, they run to the courts with a claim. They told me they were intending to get a second order on my property if I couldnt afford to pay as they dont do payment arrangements. In a way, I am glad they said it as this was how I came to find this site. I was very scared, still am sometimes, but please remember there has been some time in between all of these letters and correspondence I talk about in my thread. I would really just take actions one step at a time. I placed reply due by post it notes on my letters which enabled me to see at a glance when I should expect a response. I also prepared my Embarassed Defence and just waited until it was time to send it and then pasted into the section on the court website. The date for them to advise the court of whether they wish to proceed has passed, but I need to wait for the court to advise me further. Im hoping that I get a letter saying that is has been stayed, although I do believe they often go to court even if they dont have what is needed to win. I have nothing to lose, so will take it all the way if I have to. Stay strong!! SF

Hi Pumpytums I did sent a letter back in 2007 which advised them that I was not aware that they had bought the debt and I was paying £1 token payments to another DCA. They may still have that information, but they havent sent me details of any payments and neither has the OC, even though the OC letter regarding that account (not the complete SAR) says they've sent statements to me seperately. I didnt receive anything. I offered them a £1 token payment when I received their LBA. Before they had received it, they had already made their court claim. I've asked for them several times in the CPR's. They havent been able to send me copies of the letters that they sent to me in 2007, they've sent reproduced copies of letters from themselves and Abbey without dates and signatures. Im surprised they can do that on behalf of Abbey!! I am very interested to see if Abbey have a copy of the letter Link says was sent to me from them. I am 100% positive that I never received it. I'm not sure how that affects my position in this case, but if they had details of payments, I would imagine that they would have sent it to me to get me to sign their letter they wrote to accept judgment. I also need to get the default notice and termination notice. If they had everything they needed, would they wait 3 years to go to court? There track records would suggest not. I just have to get the Abbey SAR sorted and then see if they have any case. Im just waiting to get the funds to send in the N1 court claim, but will fill it in the meantime. I know my account blance at Abbey is £0 and they said it would have been written off when I called the number on the letter from them. Shouldnt I have heard something from the court by now? The 28 days for a response to my defence was up 2 Aug, or do they 14 days to acknowledge the defence too? Thanks again Pumpytums, I just have to keep going. SF

Can I complain to FOS regarding continuing to send me these letters without full compliance with CPR? Or should I just hang fire and concentrate on enforcing the Santander SAR for now? The copies of so called assignment letters sent by Link havent even been signed. I also note that the date on the letter is 9 days ago, even though received today. It was the same with the last letter from them. The envelopes are now also prepaid and dont show any date markings, but I keep them anyway. Having an earlier night tonight folkes! Thank you all so much and please keep the advice coming! SF

Oh thanks so much Jogs! I am so grateful! I will PM for help if needed, thanks for your kind offer! SF

Hi Nucurro I have also been taken to court by Link but fighting hard with lots of help from Caggers!! Dont despair! See my thread where you will see exactly what to send. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?263512-HELP!!!-County-Court-Claim-Received-for-Debt-Sold-10-years-after-Default First things first is to reply to the court claim on line, they give you a password on the form to do that. You will need to register first. Acknowledge the claim and advise that you intend to defend ALL of the claim, this gives you 28 days to ask for information from Link to prove that they own the debt and the debt is enforceable. If they dont send you everything (and they probably wont) you can file an embarrassed defence, but we can get to that later and this is also on my thread. You must file it before the 28 days have expired, having sent Link the CPR's promptly, you will have time so dont worry. Send the CPR 31.14 and CPR 18 to Link quickly. You need to enclose a £1 postal order with the CPR 31.14 and make sure you send it recorded delivery. From now on keep all letters and envelopes too. If they do come back eventually with a copy of your orignal credit agreement, do not despair, again this does not prove that they own the debt. You will then know who the Original Creditor (OC) is and I would recommend that you send the OC a Subject Access Request with a £10 fee, asking for all of the information they hold on you. They will not tamper with their letters, but Im not sure about the claimants. Oh and dont call them!! I did that and they started calling me, but they only did it once, as Caggers advised to tell them to correspond in writing only and thats exactly what i did. If you can post a copy of the letter on here, removing all personal information first, like your name & address, claim number etc (I used photobucket.com) so we can see the details. If they have mentioned a Default, they need to show you a copy of the default notice. They also need to prove they have legal right to the debt by i.e have a Deed of Assignment. You also need to see copies of all payments made and any charges added during the full duration of the agreement to date. I am still battling, but so glad that I came on here for help. Others will be able to help too. Also, I sometimes found information a little confusing, but people are very patient and will help and explain. Good luck! I'll keep watching your thread and help if I can. SF2010

Ok, I found out the following: A major reorganisation of the bank in September 2003 that also saw the brand name shortened to Abbey, the abbey.com domain name launched and the Abbey National umbrella logo dropped. Santander was launched January 2010 It doesnt change anything for me, but others may find it useful. Sorry for spelling errors in last post! Too late to edit now! Kind regards SF

Hi Pumpytums Am I glad to see youve been on !! New letter received today from link! I have posted those here: http://s979.photobucket.com/albums/ae273/HAPPYNESS2010/Link%20Aug%2011/ Please note the copied they sent are not the same as the 'copies' they sent me in 2007 (both attached). The ones received today are undated and unsigned but have copy marked on them. I'm also interested to know when Abbey became Santander as its odd that they now do not have a signature on the Abbey letter. I never received it from Abbey anyway. i think a bit of digging is in order. I wrote to them the last time they kindly offered me an opportunity to save court time and costs and sign an acknowledgement of owing the debt to them and told them I would not respond to any more letters. More than 28 days have passed since I filed my defence. I am hoping to hear from the court soon as I on a rollercoaster most of the time and you font really feel the breaks in between the letters as its an insipid trickle of harrassment. I made my last letter very clear in that I would not respond to any further correspondance, unless they had fully complied with the CPR's. So this time, Im doing nothing. I think my evidence is building up, but Im still cautious as luck isnt my middle name! Thanks again Pumpytums!

Thanks Buzby I will do that. Kind regards SF

I think my comms demonstrate that I was not aware of the T&C's, nor informed about the payment arrangement. Can someone advise if I have any case? Im just trying to sort this out in the best way possible and quickly.

I replied: I was advised that both contracts ended in December during a desperate follow up call for information on 5 June, but having received your advice today, I will take the information as advised today. As both contracts have been extended by 4 months, I take it that should I pay before the 4 month arrangement by the end of August, my contract for the 07***** number and 079****** number will cease. Is this correct? Kind regards I dont have a record of that response!

They replied: Thank you for writing to me with your concerns about the payment arrangement we have set up on your account. I am sorry you felt the need to contact me again, but I am happy to answer your queries. Firstly, I can confirm that both your daughters and your own contracts will be extended for a further four months, which is the duration of the payment arrangement. This means that your daughter?s contract will expire once the payment arrangement has finished. Your contract is due to expire on 8 November. I can also confirm that you do get an allowance of 150 minutes and 300 texts messages, to use on numbers within the UK. Your bank may be classed as a toll arte number which is why you would be required to add credit to the phone to send a text. I have checked the allowances remaining for the month on both your daughters and your own number and I have listed these below: 079********- 110 minutes and 201 text messages 079******* - 7 minutes and 214 text messages (these allowances will renew on 27 June) Thank you again for taking the time to contact me. Kind regards

I accepted the arrangement and they offered me the option of paying the balance in small instalments. Following our conversation I had caused to write the following as I was not consulted about the SOLO payment arrangement: Thank you for contacting me on Thursday and arranging for my service to be put back on. I was able to send 2 texts on the following day. My contract for one phone ends on 7 July and this arrangement would extend this contract beyond the term. I also understood that my contract for the other ended earlier, but I was not advised of this date when I asked, as the dates should not be the same. I would be grateful for confirmation of the end of contract date for each line please. I have been a T-Mobile customer since I first had a mobile phone, a considerable amount of years, and have never gone to another provider as T-Mobile has always provided me with a good service. I have always contacted T-Mobile to check for more efficient ways of using your service and took the international call option as a result of the advise that was given. Previously, I would send international texts and was only seeking a cheaper way to so this at that time. After all that has happened as a result of recent events, I am regrettably not of the same opinion now as having found that an arrangement I had made did not include the cost of calling all international numbers, which I was not advised of, I have a very big bill to pay. I was somewhat taken aback to find that after sending just 2 texts, I tried to text my bank and was advised that I have insufficient funds and need to top up. I checked my T-mobile account and I have 1p credit. Now, it is either there are restrictions on who you can text, or something has not been set up correctly. Again, I need to be advised fully of the terms and conditions of the contract as a text I received said it was 300 texts and 150 minutes of calls. I do feel as though I am being treated as a debtor and not as a person who has made a complaint and had amendments made as a resolution to the complaint. Somehow, the resolution is not very joined up. The reason why this matter arose in the first place was due to insufficient information relating to the terms and conditions of the service being provided and here we are with another example of that same thing happening as part of the resolution. I do appreciate that there has been compromise and I hope you do appreciate that I have also compromised in this matter. I have tried to contact customer services for an explanation using 150 today, but I was not able to get to an option to speak to anyone there and eventually the automated service just hung up. It is just not acceptable that I am being treated in this way at all. Kind regards

Letter from T-mobile in response to complaint in May: Thank you for writing to me, with your concerns regarding the international call charges you have incurred. I am sorry to hear that you were not fully aware that you could only use your allowance to call certain international countries. I appreciate how much shock you must have received to receive your latest bill and I fully understand why you do not want to pay the full charges. Having reviewed your bill, I can see that you had £41.33 inc VAT of your Flext allowance remaining. What I am happy to do as a good will gesture and in full and final settlement of your complaint, is adjust the call charges by this amount. This would bring your bill to £257.39 inc VAT. If you would like to accept my offer, please respond to my email within 14 days. For future reference, I have listed the countries below that you can use your monthly allowance to call: Australia, Austria, Bangladesh, Belgium, Bulgaria, Canada, Channel Islands, China, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech Rep, Denmark Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Ghana, Greece, Hong Kong, Hungary, India, Indonesia, Ireland, Isle of Man, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Latvia, Lithuania, Luxemburg, Malaysia, Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Pakistan, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, Singapore, Slovak Rep, Slovenia, South Africa, South Korea, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sweden, Switzerland, Taiwan, Thailand, The Canaries, The Balearics, Trinidad & Tobago, Turkey, USA. Thank you again for taking the time to contact me

I was never referred to the T&C's for the SOLO contract from the complaints rep either. I have her email communications saved. So, I am flawed that I do not have any comeback on this.

Hi there busby Thank you for the advice. Is it right then that each of my bills since this occured simply shows a balance of £20 even though my arrangement is to pay £50. I have stuck to the arrangement, but the bills received do not make any reference to the arrangement made, or the full outstanding balance. It was a long time ago that this additional international option, so I dont recall being told about the website, however, am I obliged to have access to a website in order to see T&C's? I would have expected it to be their responsibility to ensure I have been given them. My mortgage broker said he would provide written confirmation of why my application was turned down. It is the only adverse thing on my credit file. Is it better to just pay the amount outstanding in full as it is not a huge amount? All I am saying is that had this been explained fully, I would not have made the arrangement to pay in instalments, I would have sought to pay the re-negotiated amount in full. It was offered to me as a compromise on their part and I stupidly took it. My complaint has been put in writing to the MD as shown above and sent and I am awaiting a response. Your right, 'it sucks' is putting it mildly!

As a result of not being advised that there were only specific countries I could call using my long standing international call option, I incurred a significant size bill. I had the plan for a considerable period of time and had made several international calls. On receiving the £400 bill, I immediately called T-Mobile and followed this up with a written complaint. I thought the matter had been resolved fairly amicably until now. I agreed to a reduction in the bill and a payment arrangement to spread the cost of the remaining balance only as a compromise in order to resolve this matter mutually and amicably. There is a list of about 40 countries which the complaints rep said i would have been advised over the phone when taking out the contract. I can assure you that such a long list of acceptable countries recited during a telephone call would have been remembered and I advised the complaints representative the same. I have maintained that I was not advised of the terms and conditions which should have been advised at the time of taking the option, rather than as a result of my complaint after the high bill was received. I was absolutely appalled and angry to find that this payment arrangement is recorded on my credit file as an 'adverse payment arrangement' and has resulted in my recent mortgage application being declined. I had even asked the complaints representative if she was sure that this arrangement wouldn't affect me changing my payment plan at a later stage, or arranging to upgrade my phone and she advised me that it would not. As far as I was concerned this was simply an amicable way of resolving this matter without detriment to either party and in my view was some acknowledgement of the missing advice which should have been provided when this option was taken out over the phone. Or, at the very least, followed up with written confirmation of those terms and conditions and details of the countries. Most importantly, I was not made aware that agreeing to this arrangement may affect my ability to obtain credit, or recorded on a my file. I most certainly would not have agreed to the compromise should I have been fully advised. Even the advice from the complaints representative was not complete in other regards, as information about the SOLO Fixed Payment Plan was sought from the complaints representative on several occasions. This arrangement has resulted in my defamation and financial loss as it has stopped me from obtaining credit. I wrote to the Managing Director yesterday advising him that I am seeking compensation of the £150 withdrawal fee charged for the mortgage not proceeding and removal of all adverse credit information in relation to this arrangement from my file within the next 7 days and should this not be resolved promptly I will escalate my complaint to the Communications Ombudsman to seek compensation for financial loss of £150, plus £7,200 which would have been saved over the 2 year fixed period of the mortgage applied for. I do have records of my communications with the complaints team rep. Can anyone offer any advice as to any other action to take please?

SANTANDER NOT REPLIED TO LBA _ NON COMPLIANCE WITH SAR I should have had Santander reply to my letter before action by today but they havent even acknowledged my letter. I did sent it recorded, so its now time to take action and apply to the court for them to demand compliance, plus report them to the Data Commissioner. Can anyone advise what form I need to use to send to the courts and how I can get hold of one? I think I have a link to the the Data Commisioners information, but if anyone has a draft letter to hand, I would be grateful if you could share it. Thanks

Thanks JonCris and Pumpytums I have put the link to the other thread here. I have a way forward and will be taking action as advised in the thread. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?272583-URGENT!!!-Payment-Plan-with-DCA-for-defaulted-account-13-years-ago-means-declined-for-a-mortgage&p=3079950#post3079950 In addition, the broker has agreed to cover the cost of the mortgage application as it was pre-approved through them. This gives me a little time to get things sorted. Thanks again! SF2010

Thanks Iccarus I followed your advice and the Broker has agreed to cover the cost of the withdrawal fee if they insist it is paid. Im not sure why my credit report is so delayed, but I still havent got access to the instant online report! So much for it being instant. Im checking if its available today, but if not Im cancelling and will send my £2 in the post. I do have some time to sort this out now. Thank you so much for all of your help!

Thanks again for your advice Cer I am so grateful.

Thanks a million Cer! I will deal with that straight away.

Thanks again! I dont have a copy of the default notice, the information is taken from 2 old Experian Credit File. Should I wait for the SAR to be responded to to check for the Default notice. I was advised that if I made any payments towards this debt within the 6 years after default this means they can do this for a further 6 years from the last payment and continue to keep the information on my credit file. It an adverse payment plan different and can it be shown on your file even after default has ended, not as a default, but as a note? Youve been brill! I can at least know what to do as my first step to getting this resolved as I really need a new mortgage. Big Hug and a Kiss! SF

Great Cer! Thank you, I will send SAR today. Do I still have grounds to make the complaints as advised?

Thanks Cer I hope I am not confusing things as I am so anxious. I got the default for non payment in 01 and the OC registered it at the time. Im sure the adverse payment plan has been a recent addition as I have not had any problems with credit in the past 3 years and Haifax's statements only started coming in Nov 08, this would make sense as I havent applied for any credit since then, up until now that is. I will get info on when the info was last updated by tomorrow. Does that change anything? Very grateful for your help!