Hi Andy The premium is not bad at 7 K we could get it for maybe 6K What FM have done is add on 3K handling charge and invoiced us for 10K FM would not admit to a handling charge but after some detective work and asking for conformation from the broker that the cost is 7K I have worked it out

Thanks for this. I think I will take the matter through the LVT

Hi I have been overseas forthe last week so sorry for the delay. Yes the MC was there from the start but was made up of the develper now we will be a leeseholder / MC so can we ju easily set things in motion to arrange our own insurance

Just a quick note aside. I have been using rough figuers for the calculations. But this is strange the exact figures are (1) The cost of the policy was £10.091 FM invoiced us for £15,519 (2) After revaluation policy was £7178 FM invoiced us for £10,091 The chance of it working out to the exact number!!!!

Andy Is it that simple. We are a managemt company. So do we just tell FM that we will get the insurance from now on

The Plot thickens . I said that there were three players I was wrong (1) We have the owners of the flats at behrens (leaseholders) 37 off (2) We now have the Management Company me and 3 other leaseholders (3) Eddisons our Managing Agents we pay them and they look after the day to day running (4) Freehold Managers (Nominees)LTD the Landlord (5)Freehold Managers PLC who are a seperate company but act for FM (nom) (5) Zurich the insurance company (who have a special deal with the Broker) (6) Oval the broker for Freehold Managers (Alasdair is the MD ) the broker has the power to write and keep the policy. Zurich do not even have a copy. It is all bunched together in some kind of special deal What is very clever is that by spliting Freehold Managers into two companies when I wrote 5 letters asking for details of any commision or add on charge. Freehold Mangers replied that this is a matter between the Broker and the Landlord and would not tell me ( it just so happens that the landlord is FM (Nominees) same people but different company Ok back to the points above (1) I do not have a problem with the insurance . We now have a price of 7K with Zurich . I think we can get it for 6K but Zurich is a good company . It is the added on admin charge that no one admits to that pushes the up price to £10500 (2) As for the revaluation. We had a 15K bill sent to all the leaseholders in March asking for our 37th of the 15K. In 2003 the insurance cost 4K. We the leaseholders wrote to complain and I think that Freehold Managers must have realised that 15K was over the top even by their standards. Some "revaluation" took place by Oval and the Bill was reduced to £10500 I did what you suggested and contacted Oval and managed by a little craftness did find out (and have proof ) that Freehold Managers tried to add on 5K to a 10K invoice but then "changed there minds and added 3.5K to a 7K bill 7 the previous directors were the developers and have not taken any part in anything to date and have no interest in matters (10) I have the address of all leaseholders and have contacted them. I have instucted them not to pay FM for there 37th of insurance bill. Eddisons our agent will pay them in one payment then collect the money from the each leaseholder at a latter date. This will make it easier for FM to be paid but will give us a bit of leverage to ask Please tell us how much admin charge are you adding to this bill before we pay you the full amount. Up to now this has been a hidden cost. As for the RTM Eddisons our agents are doing that for us and yes we have insurance (12) We can get comparable quotes however we may only save about 1K I have asked for a direct quote from Oval but he is fobbing us off. I have also asked if he can bill us direct. That way it it plain to see the net cost

Hi Andy The MA work for us the leaseholders. We the leaseholders have a Management company it has never done anything (it was set up by the developer and all the directors have resigned so I have just put myself forward to be a director. (this will take a few months to go through with shares being sent to each leaseholder. I hhave wrote to the Freeholder FM(As a Director ) even though I am not one just yet asking our if our MA can look after the insurance but had no reply

Andy We are the leaseholders some of us live in the flats and some rent them. so there are three players The leaseholder us who pays for The Management Agent Freeholder (Freehold Managers ) who are shafting us As for the RTM what is it

Hi Andy We employ the Management Agents to look after the admin etc We now also have to pay Freehold Managers an "hidden" admin charge for arranging insurance So we are paying for something we do not need or want ie our Management agents would provide this service as part of whole service charge FM do have the right to purchase our insurance and to recieve a "cut back" from the broker But I do not think they can also add on an Admin charge when it is not stated in the lease

Andy Sorry We have a management agent (not company ) who used to sort out the insurance for us and when Freehod Managers purchased the Freehold they told our Management agents that they would now look after the insurance. By sending an invoice to each leaseholder they "divide and seperate" us. I am trying to get one invoice sent to our Management Agent who will the invoice each leaseholder. This will take admin work away from Freehold Managers . It will be hard to justify 5K for sending one invoice and making one call to the broker. Our Management Agent gets a set fee and so will do the work for free as it were With one invoice I hope to have more power to insist on knowing the full facts before we pay

Thanks for the help There are 37 flats and I have contacted them all and told them not to pay Freehold Managers ( no matter how threatning a letter they get ) I have told FM to send one invoice for the total bill to our management company. We will pay them in full for the insurance but will "talk about" any admin charges Last year it was 5K on top of a 10K policy Nice work if you can get it for just one phone call and sending out 37 invoices Out policy is due for renewal in March and I have some details of the policy see below. Our main problem is the very high admin charge that FM do not tell us about and refuse to answer my questions about. I have had to do a lot of detective work figure this out Dear Mr Bradley Further to correspondence yesterday and as advised I am back in the office and I have now looked into the queries raised. The difference and changes in premium is down to the change in sum insured following valuation and the record of premiums and changes are as follows:- Period Sum Insured Buildings premium Terrorism Premium 2007 - 08 £3,314,830 £6,265.03 £1,447.92 2008 - 09 £3,580,016 £6,766.23 £1,563.75 2008 - 09 £2,706,234 + £5,114.78 £1,182.08) additional premium following increase of S/I due to revaluation 2009 - 10 £6,669,711 £12,605.75 £2,913.33 2009 - 10 £6,669,711 - £5,427.48 reduction of premium due to insurer re rating following near doubling of S/I It is clear following the revaluation that the property was severely underinsured. The freeholders policy has several covers not normally found on standard property policies one of which is the ‘deletion of average clause without condition’. This cover extension would definitely have been of benefit had there been a large loss. Normally in cases where there is underinsurance any claims payments are reduced by the percentage difference. In the case of Behrens Warehouse, had there been total loss without the deletion of average benefit the insurers, then the insurers could have reduced the payout from and already underinsured £3,580,016 by £1,539,406. With the property correctly insured the insurers one being asked to re-look at the rating agreed a reduction was suitable as there had been a fundamental change of insured risk hence the premium reduction. I hope the above makes sense and answers & allays any concerns over premium. Kind regards Alasdair

This is not what I wanted to hear. Has anyone took on Freehold Managers and won. By the way it is not the choice of insurer that is the main problem It is the 5 K that they add on to our 10 K policy . By shopping around we may get insurance for 8K

Hi Back to Freehold Managers. FM are landlords and not management agents. I have had a look in the lease and they do have the right to purchase our insurance BUT!!!! "we have a legal right to be consulted and for our approval to sought for all major items ie insurance" ( Section 20 Landlord and tenant act 1985 ) My aproach was to get quotes from othe brokers and then write and tell FM that we do not approve of their choice and insist on ours. This must be done well in advance and made clear in writing that we will not pay for what we do not approve Will this work ???

Hi I am also being ripped off by Freehold Managers. You may not know this but they get a kick back (I think ) from the Broker BUT!!!! of note is the up 50% added on admin charge that thet do not tell you about We are going to try new approach by asking OVAL the broker to bill us directly ( with no add on charge ) we have told them that we will not pay unless they send us the bill directly. Any one else tried this