¨Thanks DonkeyB

OK - I know I haven't been able to post for a while, but I'm extremely anxious now because there's a Court case in a couple of weeks. We've received a witness statement which presumably is what CLF think will win them the case. As I write this, I'm trying to scan that doc as a bitmap - is that correct? There are definite inconsistencies in their argument, as we most definitely did not receive these throughout all their litigation, most notably the default notice referred to as 'exhibit SSJ4' in the witness statement. Would my job now be to respond to EACH claim in the witness statement; knocking them down on every inconsistency? As so many times before, advice greatly appreciated. Regards, JnH Here are the witness statement pdf's: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=19516&stc=1&d=1277807313 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=19517&stc=1&d=1277807330 Cohens witness statemnt.pdf Cohens Witness statement - 2.pdf

Is there any possibility of some help? I still don't know what to write to the judge?

Anyone help with my last post? What do you reckon to this letter for the judge?

So here's the letter: Dear Judge A_ _ _ , I write to you now because I thought it would be the only way to inform the Court of my regret that the mediation has come to an end. I would say this happened only because the Claimant’s solicitor, H. Cohen, had no intention of resolving the problem. In a letter from the Small Claims Mediator, it said: “I am sorry that the case was not resolved through mediation;…and that the time spent has given both of you a greater understanding of the other’s point of view”. We too are sorry that ‘the case was not resolved’; and wished to continue the mediation, but they have repeatedly failed to provide documents which we felt are crucial. If a Claimant refers to documents in any Particulars of Claim, surely they have a duty to provide copies of these when requested; and as well as that, in responding to their Claim, how can we mount any kind of defence to the Court without them? During the mediation, the Claimant stated that we haven’t submitted a defence. This is precisely because they have never produced the documents we have repeatedly requested from them, without success. This is why we would have to say that if the mediation has actually come to an end, it would only be so because the Claimant has never intended to comply with due legal process. We await further directions from the Court; and we would then continue to request these same documents. Could this not mean that the Claimant’s inaction could lead to a waste of the Court’s time. We certainly have no intention of doing this, so we would be very happy to continue mediation, where the Claimant provides the documents we must have. The fact that I have spent so much time and expense trying to respond to this Claim clearly demonstrates that we have sought a resolution with the Claimant. If the Claimant's solicitor, Howard Cohen, had no intention of providing statutory documents required in Civil Court cases, why enter into the mediation? Surely all this demonstrates is…? What do you think of this letter? Regarding this last sentence, in blue type, I’m not sure what I’m trying to say about HC’s failure to produce documents - what fact does this‘demonstrate’ ? Is this a handle that the Judge can get hold of him with?

Thanks very much, guys. Brilliant help. I've been writing the letter, hopefully I'll have it here soon. Maybe you could tell me what you think...

I also had a phone conversation with the mediators 'support officer'. She implied there would be no point in contacting her. How would you suggest I should deliver the letter to the mediators office - will I do it recorded?

OK - Sorry guys! Here is the letter in full: 'Thank you for using the SC Mediation Service on 4th Feb 2010. I am sorry that the case was not resolved through mediation. I hope, however, that you found it helpful & that the time spent has given both of you a greater understanding of the other's point of view. The court will now be advised that this claim will need to be listed before a judge. You should soon receive an order from the court (if you haven't already - We have received a letter from the judge who ordered mediation which I'm yet to check) telling you when this will be & telling you what you need to do between now & then (these instructions are known as "directions".) It is very important that you comply with these directions as, if you do not, the judge can decide not to take a document or a witness's evidence into account. If you do not receive the hearing date & directions within the next 14 days please contact the court. The Court Service produce a leaflet called "The Small claims track" (EX307) & you may find it useful to read this before the hearing You can obtain a copy from your local court or ... hmcourts-service.gov.uk If you require legal advice before your hearing there are two organisations that provide free, confidential & independent legal advice for those with residence...(it then lists Community Legal Advice - free legal advice for residents of England and Wales, paid for by legal aid & http://citizensadvice.org.uk) If between now & the hearing you wish to make a further offer to settle the case please put the offer in writing to the other party. Mark the letter "Without Prejudice" & ask the other party to reply within 7 days.., bearing in mind the hearing date. We are continually looking to improve the service we offer which is why I ask you to complete customer service survey...." Apart from greetings etc, this is the letter in full - What do you think?

Thanks again snoops - does the above post (#91) have what you need?

Just trying to post the letter..... Can't post it, but it does seem as if we will be able to introduce documents or witness evidence: It says: "It is very important that you comply with these directions as, if you do not, the judge can decide not to take a document or a witness's evidence into account..." It then speaks of hearing from the court within the next 14 days.. Any advice appreciated. Regards, JnH

That's excellent - thanks again DB. Not really sure how to 'copy it in to the court'. Do you mean just take it down & ask for it to be filed with the rest of the court's papers? In regard to the AQ, we previously filed one with the court, & then mediation was ordered /B] by the judge. Does this mean we will have an opportunity to put another AQ in? Also, don't really know about filing this letter you speak of with the claimant - could anyone else advise? It would be yet again much appreciated. Regards, JnH. PS - As I write this, we just received a letter from 'hmcs' saying 'the court will now be advised that this claim needs to be listed before a judge...' It also refers to 'directions' which can influence the judge's decision in regard to taking documents or witnesses evidence. Anyone help us with how to proceed? Many thanks, JnH

Hello again, so I have to admit to feeling a little bit nervous now. After my last conversation with the mediator, she basically was saying that there is no relevancy to the mediation, since we couldn't come to an agreement. As this was the case, she said there would probably be a court case in either March or April; & she gave me a feeling that she wasn't all that impartial, since she said that if I was happy to go to court, why agree to mediation? She did also say that she would inform the claimant's solicitor that they still haven't provided the DN, DoA or the agreement along with its T&C's; but who knows if they will even now comply? There's no evidence that they have any intention of doing so! So, if they still refuse to provide copies of these documents, should we pursue the 'draft order for directions' supplied by pt2537 for non-compliance; or do I need to think about an embarrassed defence for the case itself? Any advice would be much appreciated. Many thanks & regards, JnH

Many thanks, DonkeyB. We greatly appreciate your comments. Firstly, we have had statements sent us from Santander, going back to April 2008. The statement dated March 2009 is from GE Money; after which the next statement is for June, from 'Santander'. There is also a missing statement from August 2008. And no, they have never issued a 'statement of account' after they had become the 'owners' of the account. As regards the agreement, the only documents we've received are those posted above (& the statements I mentioned), viz., no T&C's. And we have also never seen any DN or a DEED of assignment. Any thoughts? Many regards & best wishes, JnH

OK - I've notice a few things about the PoC & the NoA - And I'll begin with the Notice oA:- Firstly, you can read in the copy of the notice above - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/216902-county-court-claim-jaznh-5.html#post2751831 - that the agreement is made between 'Santander Cards UK of (address) & (the cardholder)'. I do think that the acc. no. is the same, but the agreement makes no reference to Santander cards. It was made with 'GE Capital Bank Ltd, of a different address than that mentioned in the NoA. How can the defendant be forced to comply with an agreement, when they have no evidence that the claimant is the same company that the agreement is made with? Also regarding the Notice; there is no reference to CC Act, 1974. This appears to be in breach of the Consumer credit reg's 1983, (2) (1) (a); & in fact, the notice seems to breach a number of other clauses. Really sorry, I can't seem to find the link snoops gave me to CCR's, 1983. But the main point I'm trying to make, is that there is no default notice; so where does that leave us regarding a NoA? I also mentioned the particulars of claim. There are two references which I need to ask questions about: i) The last paragraph refers to 'clause 7' of the agreement, which CL Finance say 'claims contractual interest'. However, there is no clause 7, as you should be able to see from agreement above. There is a clause 6, which ends the agreement, since the creditor asks the applicant to sign here. Does this in any way make a difference to CLF's claim? ii) I'm hoping this second point will make a BIG difference - In par.2 of the PoC, CLF say:' The Defendant has failed to make payment in accordance with the terms of the agreement & a default notice has been served upon Defendant pursuant to Section 87(1) of the CCA 1974.' But this statement is either a blatant LIE, or they have deliberately neglected to provide evidence that such a DN was served; when I asked in mediation that a copy should be sent. The mediator told me that the claimant's solicitor said that it would be. I had told the mediator, also, that we had been seeking the DN, several times, since the beginning of August, 2009. I do hope that I'm not asking too much of anyone to help with these foregoing points, but perhaps if I can resolve them, it would bring an end to all of the ins-&-outs of our case. Can I also say a huge thank you, a great deal of appreciation, & absolute respect to the CAG forum site team, especially to snoops, who have given me so much help. Regards & best wishes, JnH

So hopefully I've done it correctly this time. The two documents we received below are the agreement, & the alleged Notice of assignment. These are the only doc's received, other than statements going back to Feb 2008, when, as you'll see from the agreement, it dates from 2001. Does this have any significance? You will probably appreciate then, that we have not received any kind of Default Notice, nor deed of assignment or termination notice. What do you all think about this? Once again we would be very grateful for any responses. Regards, JnH Sorry if the images are too massive - I was really struggling to get anything in there!

Hello again. Just got off the phone with the mediator - she's very helpful. Apparently, CLF's sol's say that we haven't made a defence - so I said doing so without any of the documents we've requested is very difficult; to say the least! They've also said they have all the documents, to which I replied:"If you do, let us see them, then we might be able to make an agreement!". She understood that until we've got the documents we've been asking for (since last August), we have no chance of mounting a proper defence. The mediator gave me her personal phone number; told me that it might often be engaged, & said that once I've had a chance to peruse what they're sending, get back to her & see if we can make some sort of agreement. Sounds OK so far... Would it be a good idea to post any of the documents here when I receive them? & one other thing:-The mediator told me that the judge hasn't seen any of the claim's 'papers' as yet, which implies he can't yet respond to my AQ's documents, including pt's Draft order for direction's, which clearly indicates we cannot make a defence even at this stage. Any advice much appreciated. Regards, JnH

The mediation service contacted me this morning - hurray! - They advised that I could request any documents we wanted during the mediation with CL Finance. Does anyone have advice on how to proceed within mediation? Many thanks, JnH

Updating:..... As of now we still haven't been able to reach the mediation service - little bit frustrating, been trying for two weeks. The letter we received from the judge said that the stay (28 days)wouldn't continue for long so that the claim is not delayed. This was mentioned in a letter of 26th Nov at the very latest; & we still have heard nothing from the court! Another thing: If we do speak with mediation, should I mention the draft order which the claimant has ignored; & perhaps all the other documents CL Finance haven't produced? Would very much appreciate a little advice. Many thanks in advance - Regards, JnH

And yes - I did send the claimant a copy of my AQ, & its enclosed documents. It appears as if the judge felt that a period should be set for mediation. Should I contact the mediation service to tell them that the claimant will not satisfy my CPR request; & hasn't at any time responded to our requests to provide the CCA, a true default notice, (& hence a true notice of assignment, as well as a true termination notice.) Should I tell them (the mediation service) that I cannot properly defend a court claim without any of these?

What if the judge ordered to move to mediation?

Right - rang the court on Thursday, to ask two things: i) Should the claimant have sent me a copy of thier AQ; & of course, any of its enclosed documents. The guy I spoke to said I shouldn't necessarily expect to have been sent any of this - he said they don't legally have to. I didn't really know how to respond. That was question 1, the other, ii) hat should I do if the draft order for directions that I filed with my AQ was ignored by the claimant? He told me that we should wait to see if it actually was ignored. As I post this today (Mon 7th), the claimant has not provided the documents demanded in the draft order I submitted with my AQ - here's a link to pt's thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/131499-directions-n150-n149-allocation.html - what should I do now? Advice would be much appreciated. Regards, JnH

Sure thing. Thanks very much, 42man

Thanks again 42man, a very interesting case indeed! I'm not certain what the implications of that are - should I just phone the court to ask why I haven't received the other side's AQ or any enclosed documents? I did make a mistake filing our AQ, as I failed to mention that I had served copies to the Claimant. But the court let me correct that, by allowing me to submit a note saying that I had served the doc's to them. I saw the clerk stamp the note. Would the Sm. claims mediation ordered by the court interfere in any way with the AQ documents, or the draft order for directions arising from mine?

Today we received a letter from our local court saying that "Before District Judge.... Upon the courts own motion. The court has made this order of its own initiative without a hearing. If you object..., you must make a application to have it set aside, varied or stayed within 7 days. IT IS ORDERED THAT The Judge has considered your case is suitable for mediation & you are therefore invited to use the free Sm. claims Mediation Service. The case will be stayed for 28 days in order for mediation to be arranged..." After this period, the letter says that 'the court will list the claim for final hearing so that your claim is not delayed'; while emphasizing that mediation would still be possible; which, if reached before any final hearing, will be cancelled. The last sentence tells us: 'continue to prepare for the final hearing as directed by the Judge.' The letter has two dates in it - at the end, it says "Dated 20 November"; whereas in box at the top where it says "In the ............. County Court", one of its boxes uses the date 26 November. Does this have any significance? Should I perhaps phone the court to clarify? I should probably also add that we have lodged pt's Draft Order for Directions & N149 / 150 **Allocation Questionnaire - Section G / H **- other information - here's a link to that: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/131499-directions-n150-n149-allocation.html; sending a registered copy to the Claimant's solicitors, which we have had no response to - & certainly no copy of the claimant's AQ or enclosed documents. The 14 days that they've had to react to the draft order runs out this Friday (4th Dec). I think that's everything I can think of at this stage. Any advice? In advance, once again, many thanks & respect. Regards, JnH

Interesting thread - the supreme court today ruled in favour of the banks -the court has no jurisdiction if asked to judge whether penalty charges are fair or legal. Unbelievable! I understand the OFT are not compelled to leave it there, though. Regards, JnH