Just got a letter from Friedricksons demanding the payment for the Capital One account. Have Cap one sold this on to them? Does anyone have a template response I could write back with?

Termination notice just been issued with a default......

LOL...unfortunatley it doesn't filter out the wife either.... :grin:

Hi Caggers, I have recently purchased a little device which is genius. Its called truecall and it simply filters out phonecalls. Easy to set up it allows you to stop unknown and known numbers from reaching you. Simply intercepts, plays a polite, go away message and hangs up. Costs about £99 www.truecall.co.uk I can relax at home now! :grin:

Nice! Then I go about with the battle to remove the default....

Good news, I have recieved the following attachement from my brief. See attached..... CoOp_Response.pdf

Really? Wow, now that is interesting. how do I respond, or should I simply inform my solicitor (and incur costs)?

Its about the failure to supply one.

Hi all, I have had a response to my Solicitors letter to Cap one and tits interesting. My Solicitor has now adviced a complaint to the FOS. The first letter in the attachment is from my solicitor regarding letter two, the final letter is Cap ones insistance and threats...any advice comments? Cheers Cap1_Solicitor_Response.pdf

Hi, A solicitor is acting on my behalf now and this is his letter to NR.... You have supplied our client with a copy of the executed credit agreement following his statutory request. You have invited him to refer any dispute to your Complaints Team. The agreement as supplied does not contain a statement of the Right to Cancel, under Schedule 2 Part I and Regulation 2(3) of the 1983 Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations. The consequence of this is that the agreement is improperly executed and under Section 65 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 it becomes enforceable on an order of the court only. As the agreement was executed on 3rd September 2005 it escapes the reforms of the 2006 Act and it may be that an enforcement order is not permitted, by virtue of Section 127(3). We ask for your observations on this. Alternatively, we invite you to confirm withdrawal of any claim for money from our client. Maybe some good news!

Hi, I have instructed a Solicitor to act on my behalf and this is what he has written to the Co-Operative regarding the above agreement Your Debt Management Department has written to him requiring monies. In fact, Mr ******* had made a statutory request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 to be supplied with a copy of the relevant executed agreement. The failure to provide this led to his complaint to you. You have by letter dated 28th April 2009 provided to our client what is described as “copy of original credit agreement.” What has been supplied is illegible. It does not appear to be a copy of the executed agreement, rather it appears to be a copy of an application form, but it is impossible to examine it. Please forward to us a legible copy of the executed agreement. We remind you that by virtue of Section 78(6) of the Act, any agreement remains unenforceable whilst there is a breach of the duty to provide. We would be grateful were you to inform your Debt Management Department of our request.

Hi all, I have instructed a Solicitor to deal with ms Renshaw and Capital one. This is the 'bones of the arguement presented.... The copy appears to be defective as it omits the debtor’s personal details. By virtue of Regulation 2(4) and Schedule 1 of the 1983 Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations, the agreement must state first, the nature of the agreement (which it does), then, after that, the parties to the agreement, specifically the name and postal address of the debtor. The copy does not state our client’s personal details, it merely refers to “the customer named above.” The suspicion is that this is not at all a copy of the actual agreement, rather it is an example of a form of agreement. It therefore is improperly executed and, by Section 65 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, enforceable only by order of court. We do not know if that would make the agreement irredeemably unenforceable under Section 127(3). That would depend on the date of the agreement, and that is missing. We would require to be informed of the date of agreement should you choose to persist in your claim, and proof of that will be found only on the actual agreement. We remind you that by virtue of Section 78(6) of the Act, any agreement remains unenforceable whilst there is a breach of the duty to provide. Furthermore, the agreement as supplied does not contain a statement of the Right to Cancel, under Schedule 2 Part I and Regulation 2(3) of the 1983 Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations. This means that the agreement is improperly executed and under Section 65 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 it becomes enforceable on an order of the court only. Again, we would require the date of the agreement in order to advise on the consequence of that. I'll keep you posted s

I believe they copy this off a micro fiche file, but even if it was signed.. No Prescribed Terms whatsover!!! Surely unenforceable in Court!

HI, Finally recieved a copy of my CCA from the Co-Operative/Smile today. Original request was sent on the 4th Feb 09, with the subsequent reminders, as commonly produced on this board. Yesterday this popped up. I have also tasked a solicitor to review all my CCAs and take on any case whereby any findings will be posted on this bored as a thank you for your help. The CCAs under review are; Virgin/MBNA 2006 Cap1 - 1999 Egg - 1999 Smile/Co-Op 2001 Northern Rock - 2006 Any views on my smile CCA? I think its worthless! SmileCCA.pdf

Just a word of note.... I have spoken with a Financial Law Solicitor (proper one wth a suit too!!!) and he told me this while discussing my cases..... We should enter a caveat that some of the claims made by the internet companies are extremely wild. Many agreements are perfectly valid and not every defect makes a contract unenforceable......... Im looking forward to our next meeting...... He also said that No Agreement = No Debt!

Cap One have not acknowledged anything so I have sent this to Trading Standards and the FOS... Dear Sir/Madam I am writing to complain about Capital One Cards, whose business address is PO Box 1000, Camberley, GU15 3ZQ. This company have been contacting me in order to recover a debt which I do not acknowledge to them. On the 4th February 2009 I wrote to the Capital One Cards requesting a copy of the original signed credit agreement in respect of an alleged debt this company had been contacting me about. This is my right under the legislation contained within s.77 (1) and s. 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act (CCA) 1974. I enclosed the statutory amount of £1 (cheque) as payment. Capital One Cards are obliged to supply these documents, whether they are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974. I believe this company have now committed a criminal offence as they have failed to provide a true, signed copy of the original CCA or default notice. They have consequently been in default of this for more than one month since the initial twelve working days allowable under the above mentioned legislation expired. A default has been recorded on my credit file in respect to this matter and I would like it removed as I believe it has been applied unlawfully. Also I believe that Capital One Cards will continue to pursue me both by telephone and letter to repay any alleged debt. I have written to them asking them to remove this default and to confirm to me that I owe them no money. I would also kindly request that you investigate this company regarding this matter and take action against them. I am of the opinion that they are unfit to hold a Consumer Credit License. I have included a copy of my original CCA request and all subsequent correspondence for your records. Yours faithfully

Not directly - this is were I believe you are better doing this yourself. I paid £99 to a 'company' to review these agreements and when I saw what they done, I could have done a better job. They got the CCA and forwarded it to a legal firm in Warrington. They have had this now for three-four weeks. They dont answer my emails and when I rang, they said it was with the Auditors. problem is, I have stopped paying egg and they are now demanding money as they have supplied a signed CCA. I am holding them off until the solicitors come back to me. I am very confident the egg cca is unenforcable due to the approved limit discussions above (it was dated 1999). Hopefully these Auditors agree (if they exist?)

I think im going to ignore it and fight them on the front that they have not produsced a CCA for me to assess/Audit. Without which I cannot decide if the account is legal and above board...

First thing I thought was...Im not signing nor declaring anything. They dont have my signed CCA, so they can do one. Should I give it some credit and respond, or give it the credit it deserves and simply ignore?

Hi, In response to my 30 Day Letter AND the letter mentioned above, capital one have sent me this little gem..... Please form your own opinions.... Not once did I claim financial hardship!! cap1a.pdf

Hi all, Just an update to my EGG CCA being audited by a group of Solicitors... I called them this morning and they say it is still being audited and it does take time. This is too, i'm told, to ensure that every t is crossed and i is dotted. They have had it for over four weeks now, so i am hoping that they see some validity in its unenforcability?? I will keep you informed as this could help a lot of you guys with similar agreements. S

Thanks for the advice, but I fear Ms Renshaw will find another template to side step this.... I'll give it a go, then if nothing, I think i'll involve a solicitor.

Good morning all, I thought it would be an idea to publish my ongoing dispute with Capital one and the now infamous, ms Ellie Renshaw. I initially, CCA'd Capital One on the 4th Febuary 2009, requesting a true signed copy of my agreement. After 12 (working) days I got no response and thus ceased payment on the 'alleged' account. I sent the following letter after the twelve days, to remind them of the request: ________________________________________________ Further to my letter dated 04/02/2009, my request for a copy of my properly executed Consumer Credit Agreement remains outstanding. The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. The fee was sent with the original letter upon receipt of which entered the account legally into a disputed status. You are reminded that you are obliged to supply these documents whether you are the original creditor or not, under section 189 of the CCA 1974. As you are aware, a Credit Agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the terms of the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court case that is issued. I have given you more than enough time to supply the original signed agreement and you have now exceeded the allowed time. By not supplying the documentation I believe you have now committed a criminal act under the legislation contained within section 77 (1) and section 78 (1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. As a result of this default and the disputed status of the account, you are now no longer allowed to ask for any payment, nor are I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest or further charges on the account from the date of the default (24th Feb 2009). Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any Credit reference Agencies (or any third party) as this debt is now unenforceable. To register information with a Credit Reference Agency, you must have written consent in the form of a signed Credit Agreement, so until one is produced, you may not do this. Therefore, you now have 30 days from the date of this letter to respond with a signed agreement or you will have committed a Criminal Offence under the terms of the agreement. If an agreement cannot be produced, I expect correspondence within that time frame, indicating your intentions to resolve this matter. All correspondence should be ONLY by letter. I request that no Phone calls are made to me. Take further not that phone calls made after receipt of a request not to call will constitute an offence under section 127 of the Communications Act 2003. To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document requested. Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to the account, please confirm in writing. I look forward to hearing from you Yours faithfully ____________________________________________________ Surprisingly, Cap1 responded with a copy of an unsigned, undated agreement, identical to those seen on this forum from Cap 1) I responded with the following letter; ____________________________________________________ Re: Request under section 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Thank you for your recent letter sent to me dated 2 April 2009, the contents of which are noted. However, the reply received by me still does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Act demands that I be supplied with a true, signed copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter, dated 4th February 2009. Upon receipt of the original request the specified account legally entered into disputed status. My request remains outstanding. An unsigned copy does not constitute a true copy of a credit agreement. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law. You had until 24 February 2009 to provide me with the true copy I requested. After that date you entered into default of my request. Whilst the account is in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agencies (or any third party). To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the data subject to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this. The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. Any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office. The time limits, which are laid down in the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 are clear. You must supply an executed credit agreement within 12 working days of a proper CCA request. If you fail to comply with a legitimate request the account enters a default situation and if you fail to comply after a further 30 days you commit an offence. You entered into a default on 24 February 2009 and subsequently committed a criminal offence on 6 April 2009. Therefore you have 7 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint, notification of which has been forwarded to my solicitor; otherwise your conduct will be reported to the Office of Fair Trading, the Financial Ombudsman and Trading Standards. Any investigation undertaken by them may affect your ability to hold a consumer credit license in the future. Take further note that continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003. Communicate in writing and ONLY in writing, your telephone calls will NOT be answered. To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me. I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter. I look forward to your reply. Yours faithfully __________________________________ The phone Calls continued so I sent these two letters, a few days apart; ___________________________________________________ Letter one: Re: Request under section 77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 Dear Sir/Madam Thank you for your letter of 11/03/09, the contents of which have been noted. You have failed to respond to my legal request to supply me a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account. On 4/02/09 I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference. You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on 24/02/09. The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document. In addition a full statement of this account should have been sent to me detailing all debits and credits to the account. Furthermore You are aware that the Consumer Credit Act allows 12 working days for a request for a true copy of a credit agreement to be carried out before your client enters into a default situation. This limit has expired as of the 24/03/09. As you are no doubt aware section 77(6) states: If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1) (a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement. Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law. As you have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and Failed to provide any of the documentation requested. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment. Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies. Should you refuse to comply, you must within 21 days provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’; you must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data. Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies. You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. You may not add further interest or any charges to the account. You may not pass the account to a third party. You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency. You may not issue a default notice related to the account. I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter. I look forward to hearing from you in writing. Yours faithfully ____________________________________________________ Letter two: Despite my instruction regarding any communication from your company, which stated that I require all communications in writing, your telephone calls continue. This behaviour constitutes harassment; my instruction stated quite clearly to you that I require all communications in writing. Do not telephone me again and remove any telephone numbers you hold for me from your systems. Your telephone calls are in breach of the Office of Fair Trading guidelines. If you continue to telephone me after the receipt of this letter an official complaint, together with a log recording the times and frequency of the calls will be passed both to that office and to the Trading Standards office. For your information note that all telephone calls are recorded. This type of debt collection method is contrary to the ‘Administration of Justice Act 1970’ in that it is intended to cause alarm and distress to the recipient. Your methods will not be tolerated. Should the telephone calls not cease immediately a formal complaint, containing copies of all correspondence including yours, will be submitted to the relevant authorities. This will be relevant to questions of your fitness to hold a licence under the Consumer Credit Act, whether or not it results in a prosecution. Take further note that continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003. I trust that I have made myself understood on this matter. Yours faithfully ____________________________________________________ This is what, Ms Renshaw has responded with (See attached and note the dates. I have sent the 30 Day reminder off (Dated to them and I am awaiting a response. This is the 30 day letter I have sent. _____________________________________________________ Latest Letter: Thank you for your recent letter sent to me dated 2 April 2009, the contents of which are noted. However, the reply received by me still does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Act demands that I be supplied with a true, signed copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter, dated 4th February 2009. Upon receipt of the original request the specified account legally entered into disputed status. My request remains outstanding. An unsigned copy does not constitute a true copy of a credit agreement. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law. You had until 24 February 2009 to provide me with the true copy I requested. After that date you entered into default of my request. Whilst the account is in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agencies (or any third party). To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the data subject to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this. The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. Any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office. The time limits, which are laid down in the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 are clear. You must supply an executed credit agreement within 12 working days of a proper CCA request. If you fail to comply with a legitimate request the account enters a default situation and if you fail to comply after a further 30 days you commit an offence. You entered into a default on 24 February 2009 and subsequently committed a criminal offence on 6 April 2009. Therefore you have 7 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint, notification of which has been forwarded to my solicitor; otherwise your conduct will be reported to the Office of Fair Trading, the Financial Ombudsman and Trading Standards. Any investigation undertaken by them may affect your ability to hold a consumer credit license in the future. Take further note that continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003. Communicate in writing and ONLY in writing, your telephone calls will NOT be answered. To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me. I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter. I look forward to your reply. Thoughts???? Many Thanks in advance. Cheers cap1.pdf

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