But they never ever gave me the chance to see this!!! Why is this confusing? My intentions are to pay - but only IF I DID THE SAID OFFENCE. Have I got no right to ask for proof before allowing them to take payment? How & where should I explain this. Should I write them a letter now? or wait to explain this in court? And why should I pay without them giving me proper proof which I can use to get the payment back from the driver? So? They had the choice to send proof AND collect payment! It was their decision not do either of them. Is this really considered as if it was not paid in time?

Good point. Yes I did tell them. And that was the reason for asking for clearer proof. ------------- So what do you all suggest I do now???

So does this mean: 1) They provided enough proof? 2) I had no right to demand further proof before making payment? 3) If so, then why did they not take payment from my c/c? 4) And is it my fault that they didn't take payment?

OK you may be right. I was under the impression till now that they were claiming I turned right. But now I read their letter again and it says as follows: "Your vehicle was observed failing to travel in the direction shown by the arrow on the blue sign in xxx Road / xxx Road on 00 August 2008 at 00:00. Please note that the blue signs at this location instruct road users to travel straight ahead only. On this occasion, your vehicle was observed by a CCTV Traffic Enforcement Camera turning left which is not permitted at any time." But still I think the photos provided do not give CLEAR proof that the car was turning left, so that I could approach the driver to reimburse the costs. I think I had the right to ask for clearer evidence before making payment. Please advise if I'm wrong. _________ I must say I'm really amazed of the amount of kind people that are out here to help others!!! This is a fabulous community. Please keep it up! Many many thanks.

You mean to say: "coming from the left and turning right"? Yes it's my car, although I wasn't driving it at the time. But I cannot see on any of the photos the car is actually "turning", only slightly moved over to the right. I don't know. It will take me an hour to visit that area to try to find out. Should I do this?

Thanks! Here are the photos that were attched to the original PCN: And when I requested clearer proof they sent me the same plus one additional boring photo: Can anyone here please tell me if they see on any of these photos that my car was "failing to drive in the direction shown by the arrow on a blue sign" ??? Did I (and do I still) have the right to demand for clearer proof before paying??? Or am I supposed to accept and believe them on their word?

It did not state my rights to view the evidence at all. The only thing it said was: "The alleged contarvention was detected by an enforcement camera and has been recorded on a video tape or DVD". I appealed, but because I was not sure whether I have the right to ask for further proof, and I did not want the penalty charge to go up, so I also gave my credit card details on condition that they send me proof. I didn't email the c/c details. I filled them out on the form at the bottom of the PCN and posted it back to them - together with my representation asking for clear proof. So I think this is considered 'paid' - all they had to do was to send me proof and charge my c/c, but they failed to do that.

Yes. Why?

They actually sent me some photos as "proof", and I would like to put them up overhere - if someone could please tell me how. Many thanks

Many thanks for your replies. (I was expecting an email notification that there are replies, as in other forums, but didn't get them) Although I did fill out the representation form, I still feel like adamna, I did PAY the charge but with the condition that they send me proof. And I have all rights to be shown proof of the alleged offence, no? ___________ How do I attach photos here?

Please help me with the following: I received a PCN for "failing to drive in the direction shown by the arrow on a blue sign" - for £120 discounted to £60 if paid by so & so. I did not want the price to go up whilst I fight it, so I wrote them my credit card details with a signature. But as I was not the driver at the time, and the driver insisted he hasn't made this offence, so I wrote on the PCN (under representations) that they must not charge my card without first proving to me that the offence actually happened, so I could recover the costs from the driver. They then replied with a "Notice of Rejection" with the same boring photos as on the PCN - which do not show any contravention - giving me another chance to pay the discounted rate. I replied by email that: "I already gave you my credit card details on the previous form for you to charge the £60, I only asked you to provide me with evidence of the offence. If you need the c/c details again, then please reply by email, and I will fax or post it to you, or I can give it to you over the phone." Not getting any reply - I followed up with another email 2 weeks later - and a third email another week later (3 weeks after my first email). Then their email address stopped working. I then received a "Charge certificate" for £180. I replied saying that it's wrong, as I did my part by giving them my c/c details but they failed to prove the offence and/or charge my c/c. They then sent me another letter, stating between the rest: "The notice advised that failure to send full payment or make representations within 28 days will result in the issue of the charge certificate in which the charge will be increased by 50%. As no response has been received the charge certificate was duly isssued." I then wrote back to them that: "I have proof that I did send payment on the first PCN received, and I have your acknowledgment that you received it. But I have NOT yet received any proof from you that the offence ever happened. So if you just continue in this way – sending threatening letters again and again without providing what I asked so many times – I will be prepared to go to court if necessary and prove that I did everything I had to do, but you did not do your job." And... Today I received an "Order for recovery - unpaid penalty charge" for £180 + £5 "Court registration fee"... NOW MY QUESTIONS TO YOU ARE: 1) Did I have the right to request clear proof of the offence BEFORE making any payment? or am I supposed to believe them blindly? 2) Is my submission of c/c details together with a representation - considered "paid"? or not? Please advise how I should go about this, as I now have only 20 days to go. If you need any more information, or any documents scanned, I will be pleased to provide them. Many thanks in advance for all your help and assistance!