DontKeepDigging
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Thanks. We are now getting close. You say if the outbuilding is attached then yes. Well this is where it gets murky because the outbuilding is kind of attached. It is separated from the house by a path to the rear garden but there is an archway between the house and the outbuilding over the gate to the rear garden. This archway just carries water pipes and electric cables. There is no access from one building to the next without having to go outside and cross over the path to the rear garden. The garage in the outbuilding would definitely be described as detached by estate agents. So, is it deemed to be a separate building? I think so but I'm not sure.
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Thank you. It's nice to get a document reference at last. However, it fails to address my actual question. My understanding is that a bailiff that gains peaceful entry to one part of a premises can subsequently make forcible entry to other parts of the premises. Am I correct? In my case, my premises has two parts, my house which I occupy and an outbuilding which the debtor occupies. I want to know whether a bailiff that gains peaceful entry to the outbuilding would subsequently have the right to forcible entry to my house (which has its own locks). It seems to me on reading reading Schedule 12 of the TCE 2007 that this depends on the meaning of "premises". Is the outbuilding considered a separate premises or is my whole property the premises?
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Thank you all for your responses. I am better prepared now and feel you have discussed thoroughly enough to put it to rest now. I will update this thread if and when there are significant developments.
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I am trying to plan for all possibilities. I have seen the CCJ and expect the next step to be an enforcement warrant.
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It's a civil debt. Yes, I will tell debtor to keep the annexe locked and I will do the same. However, slip ups are easy to make especially with children around. So is that your advice, "tell him he lives in the annexe and has no property in the main house" or just tell him nothing?
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Thanks for that. When the bailiff turns up what do I tell him? He has been informed that the debtor has moved in with me so he will expect him to be in the house, not being aware of the layout of my plot or where the debtor is in the plot. Shall I just refuse to answer any questions? I feel it would be safer for me to tell him that the debtor resides in the annexe and to make a statutory declaration that the debtor has no possessions in the house. Would this at least safeguard me should he later discover an unlocked door to either to the house or the annexe?
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I don't understand "County court bailiff is not there". Was this a typo? Yes I know that I can simply ignore a bailiff and he can't force entry. However, it might get him off my back if I cooperated and let him into the outbuilding but I would not want to do this if I granted him access to my house too.
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I read that once a bailiff is "in your house they have the right of access to all rooms, and can use force to gain access into other parts of the property." See https://www.payplan.com/advice/collection-of-debts/dealing-with-bailiffs/ The question is:- Would this apply to a multi-building house? It's a debt to a landlord and not a fine. It's not a criminal fine, so it's a County Court bailiff and not an HCEO. You are implying that having gained access to an outbuilding he wouldn't then have forced entry right to the main building. Can you please reference an official document for this.
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Thanks. Can you please reference an official document for this.
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This is a very general question and I would like to keep it general. If a bailiff pursuing debt gains peaceful entry to an outbuilding of a house, does it grant him right to force entry into the main building. In my case, the outbuilding is a detached garage with an adjoining annexe, both of which are detached from my house. The debtor is occupying this annexe and not the main house and has no property in my main house. I don't mind giving access to this outbuilding but I don't want the bailiff to gain access to my house. The annexe is not a separate address.
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Thanks for the STATUTORY DECLARATION. Is there one to say that the debtor no longer resides here?
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Thanks tomtubby. Fine but would it be a good idea to still have a STATUTORY DECLARATION ready for the next bailiff that calls?
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I had a visit by Marstons asking to speak to a relative. I told him that she had left my home 2 months ago and that I did not have a forwarding address. I think he disbelieved me and said that he would apply for a Court Order to search the premises. How can I best avoid this? Would a STATUTORY DECLARATION that this is no longer her address suffice?
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Many thanks to hallowitch and PT for confirming my understanding. So all I need to do now is make sure that they are not able to recover anything and it will then be passed back to the Council. I will then encourage my daughter to deal with them responsibly.
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Thanks to all who have replied. There were several useful suggestions. However, it appears that I did not make myself clear. My question was specifically about whether the bailiff would initiate further legal proceedings, as opposed to the council. My previous understanding was that it is the creditor that makes legal proceedings not the bailiff. I thought the bailiff's role was to impose a warrant, not to take out further warrants. I thought that if they were unsuccessful in imposing a warrant, they would pass the case back to the council who would then decide whether they themselves wish to pursue attachment of income, or confinement proceedings. Was the bailiff misleading me when he said that he would do this in conjunction with the council?
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A bailiff just called at my property to serve a Removal of Goods Notice on my daughter for unpaid council tax. This debt was incurred at her previous address and they are now pursuing her at my address. He explained that if they were unsuccessful in recovering the debt they would move on to further legal proceedings, such as an Attachment order against her income or Confinement proceedings. I expressed surprise that the bailiff (rather than the council) would be involved in initiating any further legal proceedings. He explained that as the debt had been passed to them, they would do this jointly with the council. Is he just trying to frighten me into paying up for my daughter?
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It is diabolical that a bailiff can assume the debtor owns all goods unless there is proof to the contrary. What about procedure? Who can be with the bailiff when they perform their walking possession and who can give the proof? If this has to be the debtor then I'm in further trouble as my chance to give proof is denied. Also, while on procedure, I understand that a walking possession cannot be performed until the court warrant has been served on the debtor. If this is the case then absence of the debtor would prevent a walking possession. Am I right?
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I cannot be less than completely honest in a statutory declaration. I find it amazing that "a bailiff has the right to assume property belongs to the debtor you have to prove its not just telling him wont do" That means that I have a duty to give the bailiff information about all my property, even though I am not the guilty party and this is my house where nearly all property is mine! Also, regarding my car, why should I co-operate on that? They can check with the DVLA. Won't I have any comeback on them if they do clamp it?
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Thanks Hallowitch. Unfortunately, my daughter does have her belongings in our property, so I can't make a declaration that all goods are mine. She has some low value furniture and personal items, such as clothes. All goods of any value are mine. Could I just tell them that, and will that suffice for them to give up?
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My daughter has moved in and now the bailiffs will pursue her here for unpaid council tax at her previous address. To complicate matters she refuses to discuss this with me and so I will have no warning of a visit as notices are sent to her. What redress can I seek if bailiff action results in loss to me? Of course we won't let them in (if we can help it), but who should speak to them on the doorstep - my daughter or me? I feel inclined to to do this myself as that way I would then be able to get their identity so that I can lodge a formal complaint against them for any resulting loss. Also, as the innocent party I would feel more able to refuse to answer any questions and just send them packing.
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MrShed. Online renewal would be great. Do you think it would work a few months later?
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Thanks postggj. What if the the car has not been off the road (and for some months)? Coming completely clean with DVLA could be very costly.
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This must be a very common problem. You don't renew your road tax and you don't do a SORN. Either through stupidity, lethargy or madness. You then come to your senses and decide to apply for road tax. You then find that you have a big problem. The V10 application form requires the date your current tax or SORN ends. What do you put for this - the date your tax lapsed? In which case will it be accepted? - possibly with a fine to cover the missing back tax. Will they also require a declaration whether the car has been off the road? I am sure that many people in this situation just bury their heads in the sand and continue untaxed. I wonder how many of the current untaxed road users are in this situation. Forced to continue breaking the law because they don't know how to get out of it. Hopefully there is some path to redemption for the miserable sinner. Is the best solution to come clean with the DVLA and throw yourself on their mercy? If so, what do you think the total damage would be?
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