Yep, scrub my ref. to CCA - i typed my malinformed opinion as worcester typed his informed opinion God, i even spelt "harass" wrong. Come friendly bombs.

Isn't there something about harrassment of debtors in the CCA aswell. Read the CCA (in the statutes library). I'm sure they're not allowed to harrass you. Find the relevant bit of the CCA and quote it to the DCA in a letter. Tell them that you consider the matter under dispute with the original lender and that you will not correspond with them and that if they contact you again you will take them to Court for harrassment.

Thanks tinkerbelle. At the weekend we explained the phrase, "flogging a dead horse" to a frenchwoman. Indulge me while i flog one myself. I quote from the CCA 1974 s.78 (1) "The creditor under a regulated agreement for running-account credit, within the prescribed period after receiving a request in writing to that effect from the debtor and payment of a fee of [£1], shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it....." IF ANY. IF ANY. *ahem* IF ANY????????? What does the sub-phrase "if any" refer to? Does it mean, "It's Ok for the creditor to bin the signed agreement after six years and still chase the debtor for any remaining moneys owed under that agreement and any judge will agree with them, so there"? Look, I want to be triply, no quadruply sure that i'm doing the right thing here in not paying them. I AM NOT A DEBT-DODGER. I merely want to HSBC to comply with the law. I can pay them. If they are within their rights to shred my agreement and still send me to a DCA without the correct documentation, then i will pay them. Then, after the account is closed, I will persue the default removal. My aim is to remove the default. Full stop. The fact that I owed them 600 quid and have stopped paying them as they didn't supply the (over 6 year old) credit agreement is by-the-by. If they have a right to the 600 - credit agreement or no - then i'll pay them. I want to be quintuply sure .

i have a feeling hsbc may do this to me in a few days (see my thread on this topic http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/24736-default-removal-katenandpete-hsbc.html ). I'd love to know the answer to this .... .... anybody.

if you pay the amount they ask on the default notice, they shouldn't default you. Look at the CCA section 89 here http://www.passprotect.studio400.me.uk/Consumer_Credit_Act_1974.PDF

... and they can't chase me for the money that was outstanding on the account?

*bump* anyone got an answer for the above?

Update and question: My claim was served on the 16th of August and acknowledged on the same day. They have to submit a defence by the 13th (or more likely the morning of the 14th as the courts seem to give them until 10am the day after). I've noticed that Cobbetts are stalling by asking for account details and breakdown of charges claimed etc. I submitted an MCOL so wasn't able to include my schedule of charges. Is there a way of adding this to the existing claim? If i can send it to the court then it may stop Cobbetts' delaying tactics.

I've got another letter from them. One part says So, which piece of legislation is this? Does it nullify s.78 CCA? Are they just bluffing?

Ok, people. So this morning I received another computer generated letter demanding money. So I'm thinking, "they haven't read any of my letters". So I phoned them. Of course, i took the precaution of installing skylook first . I was wrong, wrong, wrong. They have read my letters. All three of them. The (very nice) girl at the call centre had a bit of trouble and there were many long pauses. However, she confirmed they had got the letters (of course i already knew that as they were all sent recorded;)) and that the relevent department was investigating it. She said I would receive a response from them in the next few days asking for more time for them to investigate. She then said that there had been some notes put on the account today and that she'd try and access them. After a while she came back and said that they COULD NOT PROVIDE A COPY OF THE ORIGINAL AGREEMENT as the account was opened in 1998 and they only keep records for six years. I thanked her for her time and wished her goodnight. Am I right in saying that they are now royally shafted?

Ok, after a lot of fretting including waking in the night and redrafting the covering letter, I have sent a s.10 / s.12 statutory notice to HSBC along with a covering letter to HSBC. The covering letter was closely based on surlybonds one, but I altered quite a few bits to fit my exact circumstances. I cc'd the entire lot to the "Three Stooges" aswell (Experian, Equifax and MyCallCredit).

Read the "Default Hell" thread for your enlightenment and the sticky thread in this forum. Thanks to some research by dedicated members, we believe this to be exactly the case. There has been no test case, but all the arguments seem watertight to me. From other threads there are quite a few of us in the same boat here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/25668-curious-twist-two-cca.html specifically. Looks like we've got them by the short and curlies.

So is the contract ended. as in "Also, I cannot recall any clear statement that gave my express permission for you to continue disclosing my subject data to third parties after the end of the contract." ??

Yep, conceded. I didn't want to correct the great Surlybonds' grammer!

OK. So, there is no agreement. Now I need to send them a s.10 / s.12 statutory notice. In sarrahk's thread (i should really link this ... http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/20118-default-hell.html there.) Surlybonds put a template covering letter up. It doesn't quite fix my circumstances, so i've altered it and would like some feedback on the wording. Here it is I really need clarification on one point. In this, and in the Statutory Notice I say things like "I have been a customer", and "I have consented in my contract". Now there IS NO CONTRACT. Should i say "I MAY HAVE been a customer", "I MAY HAVE consented in my contract" etc. Or is it crucial that i recognise that I WAS a customer. But then again does this retrospectively recognise the agreement, thus negating their responsibility to prove that I AM a customer...???!!!?!?!?!?!?!

You are an individual (like in the Life of Brian!). I'm assuming both you and your husband/wife have signing powers on the account, then either one of you can sue the bank. I got the feeling that naming them was just for your own reference. I called mine Natwest Bank (just in case I sue some more banks in the future ).

It's the word 'transparent' that gets me. If it's so transparent, then why won't they tell us how they arrive at the figure?

Hi Canucks (i'm guessing there's a Canadian link here) In the templates section there is a suggested wording http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/634-guide-notes-completing-moneyclaim.html Beware - you have very limited space (both characters and lines), but i recommend it being essential that you leave in the part about the goods and services act. Ooh, yes. Prepare you text first then 'cut and paste' into the browser - that way if MCOL times you out you won't lose the wording. If you feel you can't explain everything in the limited space pop down to your local, friendly county court and get an N1 form. There are some people here who think this is generally better anyway as you can attach your calculation. But I just used MCOL as it's quicker.

You've got me excited now...

Hmm, in sarahhk's thread, she's using s.10 / s.12 to remove a default on a settled account that has been closed. My account was still 'live' (and as far as HSBC are concerned still is as they haven't acknowledged that I no longer recognise it as they have committed an offence under CCA s.78(1)). Am I squeaky clean and in the same situation as sarrahk, all because they haven't sent my credit agreement?

Yes, you're right. One step at a time.

But there is on the s.10 notice that i linked earlier. I'm the nervous sort and i insist that everything is in writing, otherwise I feel it puts me at a disadvantage. Also it's easy to prove you acted in good faith in court if you can produce recorded delivery letters. I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered! My life is my own.

Hang on a mo. If you send a CCA request s.78(1) request they could: 1. Send you a copy of the credit agreement within 12 days. They would then have complied with CCA -> 2. Not send you a copy of the credit agreement. BUT, a notice of default has 10 days statutory notice(?mods?). A CCA request has 12 days before they are in default of it. So the account would not YET be in dispute under the CCA until AFTER they default you with the CRA's. Either way does not work for you. The DPA s.10 notice states that you are WITHDRAWING your permission for them to share any Data about you with third parties (ie the CRA's). You give them 7 days -> this might work. Of course, I could be totally wrong about this so please correct me if so.......

Send them off one of these IMMEDIATELY.... http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/5078-10-data-protection-act.html This sounds to me a clear case of retaliatory action by the bank. I think a judge would look upon this as intimidatory (mods correct me if not). Get another account opened NOW, before they have time to default you and get your loan, pay, any other cash paid into that.

We ran up most of our 2838 in unlawful charges while we were students. I was at university for 10 years though - masters, then phd then postdoc. Not exactly a moneyspinner, but the boot's on the other foot now! We should get "sue your bank" societies at the fresher's fairs. They could give out DPA-SAR templates and printouts of the FAQ page. That should set the cat among the pigeons! GO KILL!!!!!!