My own thoughts entirely but I would ignore this letter and offer them nothing until they produce a compliant copy of your CCA.

1stCredit probably paid about £420 to buy your £4200 account, so roughly speaking even with this 30% discount 1stCredit would be making a nice fat profit of £2500 for an account which they can't enforce in court, as they don't have the legal paperwork.

And does it say 30% or up to 30% off?. Sometimes they use these offers just to encourage you to contact them and inadvertently admit the debt in some way in writing. At the moment your stat bar debt clock has just 5 years to go and counting. Any admission in writing can restart your clock to 6 years again..

Your credit file will already be trashed and they won't remove the default whether you pay full and final or not. As well as that you have to be very careful with how these offers are made as DCA's regularly renege on them and sell the remaining debt to someone else to chase.

1stCredit are a nasty nasty bunch as you saw at the beginning of your dealings with them. At the moment the monkey is off your back as they're stuck without a compliant CCA and they know it .Don't encourage this monkey to jump onto your back again:-).

Have they, Cabot, sent a termination letter? If they havent then they can issue DN's as many times as they like until they get it right:( This also means they can add the interst on at any time, but not above what was being charged by the OC at the time of assignment.

 

They wont add interest or charges to the DN as they will know they could stuff themselves if the charges are found to be unlawful.l

Yes Cabot have kindly issued a seperate termination letter on which the sum is the same as quoted on the Default Notice. So can OH assume they can't come back with any interest charges?

Our CRA is stuffed so not that bothered.Have done without credit for nearly 6 years now and would never borrow a penny again. I might ask Cabot to correct their delinquent record added in 2008, which names it as a joint account and I have nothing to do with it.

Just find it odd that having several cc accounts which went pear shaped in 2004, every other creditor has issued a default notice before passing to a debt collector except for MBNA .And when Link issued one 2 years later it was jointly named as being issued from MBNA and LInk..

By selling to Cabot without issuing a default notice Morgan Stanley never gave OH the chance to remedy the arrears on the account. So it still doesn't seem right to me.

But as I don't have 1/10th of the knowledge of the posters who have kindly commented on this thread, I accept I am wrong in my thinking.

Cabot have stopped phoning and gone quiet so will wait to see what happens next.

Thanks for all the help:)

Just as an aside, you should report Cabot to the OFT for sending you that misleading Pre Litigation letter (in post 40), which says if you don't respond one of the following will occur, - , bailiffs, charging order, attachment of earnings will occur.

Because NONE of that can happen until Cabot have taken you to court, and won a County Court Judgement. and usually only then if you don't keep up the court judgement repayment schedule.

This is Cabot attempting to scare you into submission because they know as Ida pointed out in a letter they sent , ' the origiinal agreement may not be available' . They don't have the original agreement to produce in a court case, only a scanned copy of an unenforceable application form without any prescribed terms.

Their letters are always full of misleading legal speak. I've seen a CAbot letter posted on this forum which stated 'there is no obligation to provide a true and complete copy of a credit agreement if there is no longer a true and complete copy in existence!!!!!!!! Load of b****cks, and typical of Cabot.

With Cabot it's not clear who they choose to attempt to take to court, so it's a waiting game. Instead of the court papers you expect, the next letter you receive might be another generic introduction letter, as your file is put back into the normal collection loop again.

Report them to the OFT, and TS , as only large amounts of compaints registered against Cabot will eventually have any effect on these cowboys.

Cabot will be recording the interest, usually 12%, but not adding it to your acc yet, sneaky;) They will claim the assignment is equitable, but in reality it is absolute. Hence the adding of interest.

Does that not mean Cabot have shot themselves in the foot by issuing a Default Notice then.? As they can't add further interest after termination?

Also if they had wanted interest added, would they not have had to include that in the figures in their Default Notice to be able to claim it later in a court case?

The figures on the Default Notice say the full alleged balance is £2400 (which is less than alleged Morgan Stanley figure), but it only asked for £1030 to be paid to satisfy the Default. No idea where that figure came from. In the Default Sums notice they sent a month later the alleged arrears had went up to £1200. None of these figures include any added interest or charges?.

Thanks for the Cabot thread links.

y not issue a section ten s.10

Thanks patrick, sent the section s10 notice last year, usual Cabot just ignored it.

Fester Tester - Asked for CCA, last year, all they sent was a tiny microfiche copy with print so small I'd need the Hummel telescope lens to read it. .

Bit disappointed if this Default is legal, had planned to report them to OFT for sending misleading documents.

Had asked a laywer about this and she felt it was most irregular for a debt collector to issue a default under s87, and to question Cabot about this. OH wants to leave that until Cabot issue court papers.

Interestingly Cabot have not added one penny to alleged account. Would have thought that if they were the original creditor now they would have been adding loads of interest and charges while they had the chance.

If nothing else it's highly amusing for Cabot to threaten OH with a debt collector:)

Only the Creditor can serve a DN under s87.

 

Thus it depends upon how the account was assigned;

absolute or,

equitable.

 

.

Thanks angrycat. Can you tell me which it would need to be for this Cabot Default Notice to be correct and legal under s87(i) Absolute or equitable?.

Will SAR Morgan Stanley to get as much info as I can.

Hi Fred Bassett, let me know how you get on with yours.

Thanks for your help, quite confused about this, and wondering if Cabot have screwed up by issuing this?

The dates are ok as they allow 21 days, amount is for about 40% of alleged total,. Considering it's been in arrears since 2004 seems wrong. In addition they're now sending OH Default Sums notices like a real creditor would do, and I didn't think Cabot were a creditor?.

Account was bought along with hundreds of other goldfish accounts last

summer. OH has definitely never recieved a Default Notice from Morgan Stanley, or any letter to say it had been sold to Cabot, other than the generic Cabot 'representation' letter of what the assignement would have looked like. Also thought if it was only equitable then Morgan Stanley would need to issue , or be named on the Default Notice??.

As well as this, Cabot put a delinquent (not default) record on OH's credit file in 2008 when they bought the account. So Cabot have now put on 2 records 1 year apart. Can't find any record of Morgan Stanley putting default marker on credit file.

Had wondered if this was an effort by Cabot to try and mislead OH into contacting them. Account has been in dispute with Cabot since last year and no payments have been made since then, as they have been unable to provide an enforceable CCA .

Morgan Stanley(Goldfish) sold my OH's account to Cabot without ever issuing any default notice or notice of assignment in 2008.( it had previously been on a minimum repayment arrngement paid to Morgan Stanley via CCCS since 2004)

Cabot have now issued OH with an official default notice quoting Section 87(1) in 2009 on Cabot yellow headed paper and now placed a new default with start date of Oct 2009.

Should Morgan Stnaley not have defaulted account before sale to Cabot?

Is this legal and correct for a debt collector to issue a default notice on an account they have bought from a creditor.?

Post up the Default Notice they sent you minus your personal details, and the more experienced caggers on your thread can have a look to see if its invalid. If possible leave the dates on it as they're important to be checked, and also say whether they've asked for full repayment, or just current arrears on the default.

An invalid default notice may be to your advantage, further down the road in which case you might not want to point this out to them. Also the default should stop any further interest being added.

You can also compliant to OFT as they've defaulted while in default of producing your agreement and the account is in dispute.

Another poster see thread - Complicated Freemans Case- sorry don't know how to post a link, has similiar problem to you except Freemans have defaulted him/her 5 times for a single account:eek:.

Preying Graham, I received a similiar letter as your 1st post in September from Sharklaycard, after nearly 5 years of reduced payments. Originally set up with CCCS who are no longer acting for me and Barclays say if that's the case they'll assume I can now make normal repayments with interest. Sent them my own offer, but they've said they can't consider it until I confirm I'm no longer with CCCS. Smell a rat here. Reckon they'll refuse the offer and restart the interest.

So I'll be following the good advice and steps you've taken in asking for the CCA copy and hopefullly putting account into dispute. Typical that these companies even when getting regular reduced payments force us onto the attack.

Good Luck

Advised that a Default is necessary before sale see thread above

Post removed as unfortunately received no replies. See Morgan Stanley/Cabot question on Debt collection Forum for responses

Don't worry , Connaught and 1stCredit are linked, your account hasn't been sold as such. 1stCredit use Connaught as part of their bully boy tactics.

Unfortunatley it might be . As far as I'm aware when you take the new loan and pay off the old balance then you start with the new agreement. HFC sometimes offer new loans at a 40% balance discount with 0% interest to people who are making regular reduced payments where the repayment figure being made is high enough to fit their grubby criteria.

It takes a bad debt off their balance book making them look better and it also means that where they had perhaps an unenforceable agreement they now have new shiny enforceable one.

You could always ask to see the CCA for the new agreement you signed, to check if it's enforceable. HFC paperwork is so shoddy you might be lucky and find they've messed up yet again.

From days gone by when I had a Freemans account, they used to set up different 701, 702 numbers on the same account where for instance you ordered goods for another person, or you ordered goods on seperate occcasions on different weekly terms eg 20, 40 80 week terms. So this is an internal Freemans account numbering payment system and shouldn't result in you getting 5 defaults, as you only ever opened one alleged account for which there would be a single account number.

Do Trading Standards think this is fair? Or have they given it their usual body swerve.

Just thought I'd put up a recommendation for this wonderful machine. bought one couple of weeks ago and it's heaven. Family and firends get straight thru. And as for DCA's and other pests, well it's up to you if you want to just totally bar them from even being able to make your phone ring, or occasionally let them call if you want to amuse yourself:D.

It keeps a log on your PC so you can see how often a DCA has tried to call and failed allowing you to update your harassment records, and you can record any of their calls you allow to reach you and store the recording on your PC. Very handy:).

Worth every penny:D:D

I wish i had found this forum before the Clydesdale Bank took my husband to court for his credit card. He is self employed in contruction and had no work..we offered them £25 per month on £3K debt, until work picked up... they refused and the judge granted in favour of them.... £500 costs and £75 per month x

That's shocking. Did you defend the case, and give the judge your full I& E before he awarded the £75 per month?. If you can't afford it you can apply to have it reduced, not sure how you do it but I'm sure Ida would be able to tell you.

good Luck:)

You're playing letter ping pong at the moment, but it's worth responding; headed up COMPLAINT.... referring them to your letters of xx/xx/xx, which were signed for and appear to have been ignored.

A Formal Complaint is the way to go now. Marbles will pretend they have mislaid your letters for as long as they can get away with it. Remind them they're in default of your CCA request, the account is now in serious dispute, and while in dispute its against OFT regulations to add interest, charges or default the account. Probably won't stop them but you'll have an audit trail of your attempt to sort this out and Marbles being unreasonable.

A Default might not be a bad thing anyway as it will probably be invalid, like the one they sent me. Once defaulted they can't add any further interest or charges. Charges can be claimed back if they ever do manage to produce a valid agreement and as Marbles don't seem to be able to provide anything but unenforceable application forms you probably won't have to pay them anything unless you choose to in the future:)

Your account was already in dispute with Cap1 as they haven't fulfilled your original CCA request, so they shouldn't have sold it to Capquest.So far they've only sent you an unenforceable application from without any prescribed terms.

You should send Capquest the 'bemused letter' from the letter template section, which tells Capquest you're surprised this account has been passed to them as its in serious dispute with Capital One, and its' a brach of OFT regulations etc..

If I've got this wrong can someone advise, I've just sent the bemused letter to Lowells for a disputed CAp1 account they sold on.

Don't despair there are many ways of dealing with this and you've laready had excellent advice from some very experienced posters. My OH and I found ourselves in a similiar situation with large debts back in 2004. We're still here, haven't lost our house, have no fear of creditors or debt collectors, and our sheer embarassment/ horror at having gone from being able to service our debts each month to being in dire finacial straits is long gone.

In 2004 we couldn't believe that a creditor will eventually accept token payments of £5 per month for accounts we were previously paying over £100 to each month but they will.

When we discovered CAG in 2008 we couldn't believe that creditors wouldn't have kept copies of agreements, but as many of us have found they often didn't.

The National Debt Line offers free impartial telephone advice on debt management options as well. They don't judge the reasons for the position you find yourself in and sometimes it helps to speak to someone personally on the phone , once you've got over the intial nerves at discussing such a diffuclt subject. I've always found them really helpful.

In the meantime always pay your priorities first. eg Mortgage, Council Tax, Utilities, Food and Housekeeping first, before you send one further penny to a credit card bill. If that leaves you with less than £1, or nothing to pay creditors then that's how much they should get.

Keep your spirits up,with help from Cag you'll soon see things in a more positive manner in the near future.

Don't give up.

.

 

At the end of the day they still need the original agreement to enforce the debt or else S 127 applies. quote]

 

Glad to hear this will still apply. There's a huge thread on the forum about MBNA who are allegedly quite adept now at producing copy application forms with prescribed terms squashed conveniently on to a side column bar, or allegedly squashing them on to the opposite side of the page which was originally the MBNA folding return mail address.

The lettter you received from 1stCredit is a generic letter they've sent to many people on the forum including me. Not sure of their exact reasoning for sending it but , like shadow says it's probably an attempt to trick you into acknowledging your signature.

PT537 has a good reply to this somehwere on the forum. Can't find it but it basically said

'In your letter you make reference to requiring my specimen/authorised signature before complying with my staturory CCA request of (insert date). I would point out the Consumer Credit Act 1974 does not require that I supply you with a copy of my signature before you comply with my staturory request

'If it is for data Protection purposes please note that for some time you have been sending correspondence containing sensitive private information to this address. If you are concerned that you are corresponding with the correct person I would ask why it has taken x months/ weeks to raise this?'

Then finish it off by reminding them that you are still waiting for a compliant copy of your CCA.

IstCredit will probably respond by sending you an unedited agrement which basically is the same form, only difference being the security info , mother's name and date of birth isn't scored out in heavy black pen.

They'll keep contacting you, every so often, saying they've provided your agreement even when it's an unenforceable application form they've sent.

After a couple of ping pong letters back and forth telling them their copy was not compliant I sent them a letter headed Final Response saying until they supply a compliant copy I can't correspond further. If they start phoning again they'll not get past the Truecall machine a truly wonderful piece of equipment:grin::grin::grin:.

From reading posts on forum believe Pinky69 is about to commence legal battle with Cabot on similiar subject, he/ she may be able to help you with some detail info you need.

Cabot letters seem to be made up of cut and pasted comments from some sort of 'written paragaraph data file' they select from like building or lego blocks. Result is they 're usually a load of crap.

Wish they sent actual lego blocks, I'd have a full set by now. good Luck:)

I've managed my own DMP now for a year having left CCCS after 4 years as they refused to stop payments to a new DCA (guess who) who had refused my CCS offer, were threatening me with a court case to obtain an CCJ, but who couldn't provide a CCA copy when I requested it.

Everything has worked fine for a large number of creditors. But I've just

recieived a letter from Barclaycard saying they had asked CCCS for my new repayment plan offer. Went on to say if I was no longer with CCCs they would assume I could return to normal interest and repayments.

Sent them my detailed I&E and new offer, now they've responded they can't consider my offer until I confirm I'm no longer with CCCS. Seems a bit suspicious, and feel they'll likely refuse my independent offer, so they'll now be getting a CCA request.

When you leave CCCS they'll give you a list of all your creditors,a contact phone number and your account numbers. All I did was phone them up for their sort code and bank account number and set up direct standing order repayents each month. They'll ask you to confirm this in writing but I never did.

CCCS are very helpful to start with, but not much use if a DCA gets stroppy as they just expect you to accept DCA penalty charges. Theywill also increase your outstanding balance if requested by a DCA or creditor without telling you. when I queried this with CCCA thety said a creditor or DCA was more likely to have the correct information ., .

Resulted in me overpaying a DCA , had to involve the FOS to get my overpayment back. I also found the fact CCCS changed the format of their monthly statements on a regular basis very difficult to understand , so much prefer doing it by myself.

good Luck:)