Hi All Still no contact from solicitors or lenders with any further documentation. I am still waiting for the follow up letter from the court following hearing confirming directions and timescales given for production of the documents. Jody thank you very much on your suggestion - I am going to arrange to see MP to find out where the law stands with Article 8 of the European Law on Human Rights If the lender do not provide the information about sale of the property within the 6 year following repossession and they undersell it then they are denying legal right to counterclaim against them as the time limit is only 6 years and this apparently contravenes European Law on Human Rights. Also by claiming that they have 12 years in which to pursue shortfall and there is only 6 years in which one can counterclaim against them for underselling the property is not level and fairplay playfield. I am also thinking of preparing an article and my own video commentary on the shortfall issue which I am planning to use advantages of Web 2.0 and Internet Social Networking Sites and the power of Internet to raise as much awareness as possible about below the belt ruthless tactics lenders and their solicitors employ. The way things stand at the moment with number of repossessions rising day by day there will be lot of people in a same situation 10-12 years from now if we let lenders get away with it. Someone, somewhere, whether it is Government or Law commission has to take notice and recognise seriousness and implication of this issue and do something about it to make changes necessary and to regulate this properly and reasonably. I would be very grateful to anyone who can help me formulate article and/or help me with comments and advise on the main points to mention in the video commentary. Best regards Count

Hi Everyone My apology for not been around for the last couple of days to update you on my court hearing on Wednesday as I was in transit This has been very nerve wrecking week for me. First of all I would like to thank you all so much for all your help, advise and words of support, very much appreciated and forever grateful. Well, at the hearing judge has opened fire of questions to the Wragge solicitor as to why they have not responded to Part 18 request and provided information requested, or why they didn’t respond with an explanation as to why they couldn’t provide documents requested. Judge was not pleased at all with their conduct. All solicitor could say that they thought most of the information requested was not relevant for me to prepare adequate defence, to which judge said that most of the information asked was relevant indeed and if requested under CPR rules it should have been provided within timescale given without any excuses. He gave directions and timescale for solicitors to provide it and then to have another hearing in May. It goes without saying that solicitors ended up with an egg on her face. He has asked me what is defence based on and I said that I thought it was statute barred hence asking HBOS to prove it. At that point I said that I could qualify for legal aid, this was Jody’s idea, Jody thank you very much, but that I did not want to involve solicitors before we had all of the documentation from lenders as it would be waste of their time, and that once we have all of that then we will see if defence may need to be altered and /or to include counterclaim for underselling the property Well, Wragge solicitors jaw must have dropped down to the floor when she has heard me say that. I have come across an article as well which says that if Lenders do not let you know that there is a shortfall within six years of repossession and if you feel that house has been undersold and may want to counterclaim, then by not letting you know within six years they are denying you your legal right to counterclaim against them as it can only be done within six years. That is against European Law on Human Rights, Article 8 as it is not fair play, lenders saying that they may have 12 years to pursue shortfall and by not letting you know about shortfall in the first place then you are out of time to counterclaim. And situation is going to get worse and lot more people will end up in the same situation, something needs to be done to make changes in the law because as it stands now it is one big minefield, even legal professionals do not know where the law stand, some cases support 6 year limitation some 12, lenders are saying they are abiding by the CML code which they are not, and whilst all this is happening lenders are getting away with murder and lot of people suffer. Please have a look at this article I came across; 'Greedy' banks push up mortgage rates - Telegraph It makes an interesting reading. It is another indication on how banks are creating misery for millions of people and are pushing them further and further into debt by putting their profits first. This action, of course, will lead into repossessions, shortfalls - I guess it is the way banks beef up their profits by stealth. It would be interesting to hear them publicly what they have to say about it. And yet they are saying they abide by CML code of conduct and exercise duty of care to their clients. Blatant and obvious lies. And this article: BBC NEWS | Business | Home repossessions rise to 27,000

Hi Tomterm Your wrote in your reply: The CML policy defines contact in much looser terms than the staute of limitations. Can you please explain how does CML define contact in comparison with Limitation act. Many thanks

Hi Tomterm Than you very much on your reply. in your reply you suggest to ask judge about standard disclosure. Can you please explain what is meant by " standard disclosure" Best regards

Hi All Thank you all very much on all your efforts and your help, very much appreciated and forever grateful. This whole thing is like big mine field . I am getting bit confused here, does the limitation time starts from the first default or the last payment made on the account? What constitues admiting liability etc? Best regards

Hi Jody I have copy of the deed but it is single sheet of paper only which only has signatures on it. There is no mention of any conditions etc. What came with it was mortgage deed terms and condition which I have posted on this thread previously and I have gone through them number of times and do not see any mention or reference to it being “speciality debt”. I would welcome any comments from anyone who has read it as I may be missing something.. Trouble with the statements they have sent, there is no explanation what the figures are for just shows as payments but not broken down so that one can identify if there was MIG or not. I am going through them with the fine comb through it and should be able to send some feedback tomorrow. They are claiming that there was no MIG, after all these years I am not sure whether there was one or not although can recall some mention about it, but how can I prove if there was one or not? I have had property up for sale if I can recall it rightly for £ 72.000, that’s what it was valued at back end of 1996, as I was trying desperately to sell it instead of being repossessed and they sold it for £ 53.000. I have had few viewings but Halifax would not allow me any extra time to try to sell it as they wanted to take possession .Also they have only marketed property through their own Halifax Estate services, they have not sent me official valuation and have not even bothered to obtain other quotes from other estate agents. By the way did you get any response to your email from the law commission?

Hi All Still going through these statements and all I can see that it seems to show is just some credits made and some interest changes. I do not think it is showing all of the credits but I am still ploughing through it. I would be forever grateful for any advice on what sort of information to look for. Also please, please can anybody advise on points in my prevuous posting ( quoted here ). Date for allocation hearing is coming closer and I am not sure what to do at this stage prior to hearing, or what I should focus at the hearing. I am forever grateful for everything everybody has done so far to help. Many thanks to you all Best regards

Hi All Would you still advise at this stage to do S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) before this allocation hearing. If so, is there template letter I could use.Would I just ask for the same info/documents as in Part 18. Just received bunch of papers from solicitors saying these are the statements. I m just going to go through them. What sort of information do I need to look for on these statements? I would be very grateful if Paul or anybody else could let me know, is there anything else I need to do or write to solicitors or the court prior to this allocation hearing Many thanks Forever grateful to everybody on all your help Best regards

Dear All Judge has decided to call for Allocation hearing/ Case Management conference tobe held on the 6/02, after considering the statements of case and AQ submitted before the final decision about allocation can be made. What would your advice be here, to write to court prior to that hearing to inform them that despite asking solicitors and lenders since 26/11 for the documents they still have not provided fully what they have been asked for, OR, would you wait and bring this up at the hearing. Part 18 letter was sent to Solicitors and to Lenders. In solicitors first response to Part 18 letter they have indicated that they are awaiting all the documents from the lenders and that's why they said they would agree to extend deadline for me to submitt defence until 9/01. At no time did they then indicate that Part 18 letter was not appropriate for asking for all of the documentation that I asked for nor did they say that some of the information asked for should be directed to lenders through some other form of request if they beleived that PArt 18 was not appropriate. Instead they have waited all this time to say this despite being asked twice and still not provided all of the information. In any case lenders did have Part 18 letter which was addressed to them so in effect request was directed to them direct anyway but they also failed to provide information. Am I correct in the way I m thinking and should this be brought up to the court attention before hearing or wait till hearing? Should letter be sent to solicitors and lenders to point out this? PriorityOne, I am almost sure that there was mention of MIG but can not be 100% certain after all this time, and as far as I can remeber we did not put much money into the property, I don't think it wasn't anywhere near 25 %. They are saying that there was no MIG but they can say anything they want and withold information if they so want, is there another way to find out if there was MIG in place, or to force them to prove that there wasn't one? Forever grateful for all your help, many ,many thanks. Best regards

Hi Jody What are requirements to qualify for Legal Aid? Best regards

Hi Jody No I do not own the property and have not owned one since the other one was repossesed. Maybe they asssume that I own the property and that's why they are after claiming shortfall. Should I send them letter to point out that I do not own the property? Best regards

Hi Patrick Thank you for posting these links. Have you by any chance got the second part of the Article - Equity and Trust. I am finding this paragraph confusing, can anybody please shed some light on what is meant here: "Secondly, under s 101 of the Law of Property Act 1925, the power of sale does not arise, that is it does not exist, until the ‘mortgage money has become due’. and, and this is the significance, in the absence of a power of sale, a purchaser from the lender would not get a good title. The borrower would be entitled to have the sale set aside and recover the property. In the present case, you will see that condition 12, quoted above, caters for this by providing that on any of the specified defaults, ‘the redemption money shall become immediately payable to the society….’ A purchaser would need to check that this had indeed happened." Many thanks and best regards Count

Hi Paul Thank you very much on your reply. I appreciate that some of this mortgage stuff is not something you have been dealing with but I do apreciate and I am forever grateful my friend on all your help you have provided so far. I will buzz Sequenci and ask him if he could have a look these mortgage documents. Paul can you shed some light about this Allocation /Case Management hearing - is this final hearing or something else, what happens on this hearing. What would your advice be regarding documents that lenders/solicitors have not supplied even though they were requested by Part 18 - do I write them again asking for other documents or S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) them or write to the court to tell them that they have not provided any documents. You mentioned you were helping in similar case where they got order from court. Is it order for same or similar hearing or different thing altogether? Best regards

Hi Jody Thank you very much on your reply. 1. They did send one page Mortgage deed certificate but all it has on it is just signatures and names nothing else. 2. They did not provide Statement of Account even though they said in their leter that it was enclosed. I did not S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) them but was requested through Part 18 letter, copies were sent to lenders direct as well as to solicitors.Should that not have been sufficient? Should I S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) them now? What do I need to put in the letter, is there any templates? If I do it now what time do they have to respond to it? 3.I have no clue what this insurance is about. It looks high for it to be contents/buildings insurance. Talking about xtracover insurance it rings bell somehow, I remeber seeing it somwhere, although it could have been at Halifax branch being advertised at the time, but I can not remeber what it was for or about 4. Allocation Hearing - Paul can you please shed some light on this, is this supposed to be final hearing or something else? 5. As for endowment I can not honestly remeber what happened to it, it has been so long. But with the view of misselling of all endowment policies could I counterclaim against them for this? Best regards

Hi Paul and all my friends here Even though solicitors have said in their first response to Part 18 request, sent to me on the 12/12/07 ( solicitors/lenders deadline to respond to Part 18 was on the 5/12/07) which was original date for me to file defence to the court, that due to the fact that they have to get documents from the lender they are extending time for me to file defence till the 9/01/08, they have now sent me some documents which they posted on the 10/01/08 ( in fact day later then the extended time they have given me) which means again, the second time, on purpose they have sent it late and incomplete as per request trying to obstruct me or prevent me from having all of the documents at hand to prepare appropriate defence. I have now received some documents solicitors have sent as stated on their letter ( please see attached) except that even though they say they sent Statement of Account (point 2 on the first page of their letter) it was not enclosed. They are saying that my request concerning regulatory bodies, complaints procedure and personal data should not be raised within the Part 18 but should be directed to HBOS – well copy of the Part 18 was sent direct to HBOS at the same time as it was sent to solicitors – I wonder why lender did not respond and provided information on the above?? Please find attached here copy of Mortgage Deeds Conditions, Completion Statement and parts of HBOS Group Reorganisation Act 2006 (12(2) and 12(4)) that solicitors are referring in the point 6 on the second page of their letter as proof of HBOS entitlement to the debt. I might be wrong, but to me this only points out that BOS taking over Halifax is taking over all their accounts etc, can you please let me know your thoughts I might be wrong but do not seem to see any reference in the Mortgage Deeds Conditions to mortgage shortfall being classed as speciality debt. Should it be made clear in Mortgage Deeds Conditions what’s what? Really they have not provided any documents as asked, no Statement of Account, no independent valuations of the property (only sent bill from Halifax Property Services for advertising and selling property), no documentary evidence how property was marketed and no proof that property was sold for the best price. They say that Completion Statement sets out the price obtained for the property but they did not provide valuation. Prior to repossession I had property on the market as I was trying to sell it instead of letting it be repossessed and as far as I can remember so far back house was valued and on the market for £ 72.000 with another estate agent, I had some viewings but unfortunately Halifax did not want to give me more time to try to sell it and took possession. Then they sold it for £ 53.000, I can not believe that Halifax Property Services valued it at such big drop in price in comparison to what estate agent I had it on the market with valued it initially. On the Completion Statement they are showing final loss of £ 18,624.40 and yet on their claim they are showing shortfall of £ 15,984.40 Completion statement figures do not seem to stack up unless I am looking at them differently They have sent me some invoices for garden maintenance and standard clean whilst trying to sell it which to me look fairly inflated £ 40 - £ 50 for cleaning empty house and maintaining garden?? They also sent me few invoices from their other solicitors who dealt with the sale of the property as well as invoices from the solicitors who dealt with mortgage arrears. They say that account first went into arrears in Oct 1989; does it mean that Limitation Act should apply from then? They are saying that Halifax did not purchase Mortgage Insurance Guarantee – yet on the Completion Statement they are showing Insurance Premiums of £ 2,453.85 – can anybody shed any light what this might be. Also I have now received the letter from the court saying the following: “ District Judge has considered the statements of case and allocation questionnaires submitted in this claim and has decided that an allocation hearing/case management conference is necessary before a final decision about allocation can be made” I would be very grateful if someone could clarify what this means, is it final hearing or something else?? It has been scheduled for the 6/02/08. What do I need to do next; your help will be very much appreciated. Forever grateful Best regards Wrage_Co letter110108.pdf Mortgage Deeds Conditions.pdf Completion _Statement.pdf HBOS Group Reorganisation Act 2006_ 12(2)_12(4).pdf