Just pay the 42.50 on Bristow and Sutors website print of the reciept and the problem is solved , before you get into a real problem with levy fees and van call outs etc.

Firstly I would like to say sorry for not being on here, but I have am recovering from bronchitus on top of everything else with the local council and Jacobs. I took the advice of asking for a SAR and within 2 days I had a reply from Jacobs, nearly halving my bill, thanks to everyone on here for such fantastic advice, I know this is just a part of the problem but for me a large one sorted now to start making the payments direct to the council. I did find a different code on an old bill which relates to the outstanding amount so when I pay online on Tuesday I will try that number, thanks for that and fingers crossed that it works. Thanks again everyone

good luck with it Alison

I may be wrong: heres the section B& S are quoting but it doesnt say anything about multiple liability orders.

Distress

45.—(1) Where a liability order has been made, the authority which applied for the order may levy the appropriate amount by distress and sale of the goods of the debtor against whom the order was made.

(2) The appropriate amount for the purposes of paragraph (1) is the aggregate of—

(a)an amount equal to any outstanding sum which is or forms part of the amount in respect of which the liability order was made, and

(b)a sum determined in accordance with Schedule 5 in respect of charges connected with the distress.

(3) If, before any goods are seized, the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount and the levy shall not be proceeded with.

(4) Where an authority has seized goods of the debtor in pursuance of the distress, but before sale of those goods the appropriate amount (including charges arising up to the time of the payment or tender) is paid or tendered to the authority, the authority shall accept the amount, the sale shall not be proceeded with and the goods shall be made available for collection by the debtor.

(5) The person levying distress on behalf of an authority shall carry with him the written authorisation of the authority, which he shall show to the debtor if so requested; and he shall hand to the debtor or leave at the premises where the distress is levied a copy of this regulation and Schedule 5 and a memorandum setting out the appropriate amount, and shall hand to the debtor a copy of any close or walking possession agreement entered into.

(6) A distress may be made anywhere in England and Wales.

(7) A distress shall not be deemed unlawful on account of any defect or want of form in the liability order, and no person making a distress shall be deemed a trespasser on that account; and no person making a distress shall be deemed a trespasser from the beginning on account of any subsequent irregularity in making the distress, but a person sustaining special damage by reason of the subsequent irregularity may recover full satisfaction for the special damage (and no more) by proceedings in trespass or otherwise.

(8) The provisions of this regulation shall not affect the operation of any enactment which protects goods of any class from distress.

(9) Nothing in the Distress (Costs) Act 1817(1), as extended by the Distress (Costs) Act 1827(2), (which makes provision as to the costs and expenses of the levying of certain distresses) shall apply to a distress under this regulation.

Although i am happy that they have dropped the LEVY fees and the van attendance fee and the redemption fee:

They are still charging me first visit fees for both LOs on the same day/time. Now i am not sure about this so i will write back asking them to clarify where exactly it says they can do this.

Not if they levy for them at the same time imho, others will know more

I think this means they can?

1. The sum in respect of charges connected with the distress which may be aggregated under regulation 45(2) shall be set out in the following Table—

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/613/schedule/5/made

Update:

letter from B&S extract;

"There was no second levy, our records show that we levied once on 15/01/2001 however the legislation states that we can charge fees per liability order."

"With regards the redemption fee this is charged in aacordance with Head H in Section 5 of the council tax regulations and is payable for the release of the goods back into your control. Although it is added to the case at the time we seize the goods , the payment of this fee is not taken till the very end. if the debt is not paid or we instead remove and sell goods then the redemption fee is credited"

I have cheded out the councils pay online page and I am not given the option the select the year I wish to pay, although already have direct debits set up for this years council tax, from another bank account. Surely if I make the online payments plus the direct debit payments then I am showing that I am actually trying to pay the debt off.

ARRRGh thats unfortunate! my councils website has last years amount otstanding and this years installments seperate.

have you all the statements

 

welcome are renound for adding 'fees' for everything including the cat dying.

 

i'd suspect the ppi is not the only thing you can reclaim

 

 

dx

Actually and i know i am a minority with this but i have all the statements etc and there havnt been many charges except the odd £5.00 when my payment has been declined by my debit card. there is of course the £350.00 shortfall Extra insurance also tacked onto the loan.

The council dont seem to like me sending copies of my complaints to them:

 

If you wish to query Bristow & Sutor's actions or how theyhave obtained

their information, this is something you must take up with themdirect. As a lot

of the comments made in your latest email relate to theconduct of individual

bailiffs, you must address any complaint regarding thisto Bristow &

Sutor.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have explained the Council's position regarding the actionstaken by

Bristow & Sutor, and I do not feel we are able to help youfurther. As

mentioned above, any further queries regarding this matter should nowbe

addressed to Bristow & Sutor direct.

it would be classed as an asset and the loan balance offset against it

 

however, it puzzles me that you went bk, so the loan should not have remained?

 

if the ppi is more than the outstanding, then the rest will go to your pocket

unless other debts exist to welcome.

 

dx

Ok so they would pay off the outstanding loan and give me the rest.

yeah the Insolvency Service didnt request any action on it because it was in joint names and it was fairly new so welcome didnt worry about it either ( well they wouldnt would they). The IS even returned a couple of hundred pounds worth of premium bonds i had.

This is most important, as you can pay onto the account that is in arrears, and pay down the Liability rather than current year which is a separate issue.

brassnecked is right. Its of the utmost importance you pay the account thats in default.

Check out the online payment section under council tax on your Local Authorty website. Thats exactly what i did it gave me the option by the year.

I recently received a letter from FSCS stating i was entitled to claim back my PPi from Welcome car finance of £2682.52 . which is all good but i have just one worry.

on the form it asks if i was ever declared bankrupt? now i was in 2007 and discharged in 2008. I declared the loan to the insolvency people and welcome but no one ever did anything about it, due to it being in joint names, and welcome wasnt really interested.

my partner carried on and paid welcome and i contributed again once i was discharged and back to work, the loan is now virtually paid off. does anyone know if will the Bankruptcy effect the repayment of the PPI at all.

there is just one other thing when you made payments direct to the council how did you know it was taken from the debt and not that years council tax

Because when you pay on line it gives you the option of which years liability your paying (well it does om my particular councils website) I hope yours does too.

thanks for the quick reply, I am at a stage of thinking I should just pay the whole amount of original debt direct to the council, but feel that I will still have a battle going on with the bailiffs for quiet a while yet.

If it leaves you skint pay it off in installments online. In the meantime get a breakdown of charges from the bailiffs and send a SAR to the bailiffs send copies of both requests to the council and by signed for post , post the breakdown on here and let the guys have a look , Dont put any personal stuff like full name and addresss or reference numbers on here though!,no need to pay the bailiffs anymore than you have to.

I have to add that i couldnt have achieved what i did without the help of the people on this forum.

thanks agb657, what did the council do when the account was paid in full, and if you dont mind me asking how long did the whole thing go on for. Also once you had start making payments did the bailiff return at any time.

The council did nothing! they told me not to pay, and to pay the bailiffs. I kept on paying regardless untill the account was clear. the bailiffs turned up occassionally and rang a few times, i told them straight i wasnt giving them a penny and i was paying the council . I had all sorts of threats including imprisonment from the Bailiffs .

I sent for a breakdown of charges sent it to the council who said it was all legit.

I then sent a SAR got that back and sent a copy to the council and low and behold hundreds of pounds were deemed invalid.

Actually it went on for around 18 months because i wouldnt accept the Bailiff charges or the affirmation of their legitimacy from the council. and i was right to do so.

I am Ok with paying the legitimate charges of the Bailiffs, I. E. first and second visit charges.

They are supposed to give you a key to decipher their shorthand if you are not likely to understand it. The chances are they may use this as a delaying tactic and hope you will just give up. Therefore you should write back to them and ask them for an explanation, if they then refuse they are in breach of the DPA guidelines and could be reported to the ICO or you could file an action through the County Court for compliance.

 

PT

Thank you

Thats my next move then.

can anyone tell the outcome if they have actually:

 

a. refused to deal with an abusive bailiff ?

 

b. paid in instalments the original debt, prior to bailiff charges, direct to a council ? or

b2. paid the original debt, prior bailiff charges, direct to a council ?

 

c, who is responsible for the bailiff charges should the debt be either recalled or returned to a council ?

a: yes paid all my council tax arrears online

B yes i paid as much as i could regularly, while refusing to deal with Bailiffs, The council refused to take back the account but i carried on regardless.

C you are responsible for LEGITIMATE charges only. i made a initial enquiry for a breakdown of charges, which the council still stated were ligitmate , then made a SAR sent a copy to the council and hundereds of pounds worth of Bailff charges were deemed invalid. i was left with the normal first and second visit fees of ;

£24.50 for the first visit

£18.00 for the second visist.

can anyone decipher this? its from the printout i got from my SAR; This is the date they levied on the car according to the notice of seizure i got with the SAR.

03/02/10 cwebauto information recieved by client web

correspondece still to be looked intp

15/01/10cwebauto bailiff advises

call completed at 13:19 on 15/01/10. - ------ attd ( my address) levied outside -met debtor (male) ( no wp) levy value e200. atr fee: e0.00

(mid terrace with white door and cylinder lock) no bvai

15/01/10 cwebauto bailiff advises

call completed at 12:59 on 15/01/10 - ------ attd ( my address) refused access-met debtor (male). (mid terrace with white door and cylinder lock) best time to meet : not known. form left: none. bvai completed.

The notice of seizure states ;

i have this day seized,disrained and impounded the goods and chattels listed on the attached inventory.

the amount which must be paid is as follows;

council tax/domestic rates and court costs------Blank

Attendence to levy fees ----------------------------Blank

Levy fee-----------------------------------------------Blank

walking possesion fee--------------------------------Blank

redemption of goods fee (head H)-----------------Blank

total ( see attached memorandum) ---------------£963.98

TOTAL the attached memorandum describes our car and a scribled not saying ----conf by nbr @ 66

I was in when he posted the second letter through the door and know it was only him and a his car outside, I have told jacobs head office that I will have no contact with this bullying, intimidating man, at which the girl told me I am well within my rights to do so. I will be getting straight on to doing a letter to jacobs head office to request a break down of the charges, which once I receive this I will then scan the letter and forward it onto the council. Thanks again for all the sound advice.

Dont forget send everything registered to be signed for the other end, and track it on the Royal mail website or they will deny ever getting it.

I have no goods outside the property that could be levied on, so does the bailiff have the right to charge me another £150.00 for a visit, he has never gained access to the property either. My original outstanding council tax bill is £443.58, first visit from the bailiff the bill stands at £655.08, second visit from the bailiff the bill now stands at £785.08.

Its time to get all the info you can on the charges. For all you know he could have levied on the neighbours car! anyones car ! seriously i tell you from experience all he has to do is scribble on the notice of seizure that a nieghbour said its yours , dont bother to give it to you and Bingo theres his levy charge ,and call again for an unsuccessful pick up and Bingo another charge.

SAR is the way to go it will also send them a signal your no mug.

It would appear that the Council have fallen for Bristow & Sutors dodgy actions hook line and sinker, time they were made yo realise THEY are liable jointly and severally for any wrongdoing

My opinion is the council automatically treat you as some kind of criminal and will take whatever B&S says as gospel, Now i dont beleive a word Bailiffs say.

But i beleive that many, many people would accept the word of the Head of Revenues at their local council at their word. I didnt, and it saved me quite a few quid. but how many others would think a person in such a responsible position would be so wrong or negligent in what the bailifs are actually charging you for.

I have now got all fees down to first and second visits only and thats it. But really i would so love for the Council head Of Revenues to be wrong in his spouting of whats correct under legislation.

I have been watching this particular query with GREAT INTEREST.

 

Personally, I would not let this matter drop. This because, for a long time you have been asking the question as to WHAT was levied upon and it has taken all of this time to FINALLY let you know. I am suspicious that a levy may therefore NOT have been made at the time. I would be asking for a copy of the SCREEN SHOT of the account.

 

I have to rush so cant post any more but the response from the council........

 

IS WRONG

 

A bailiff CANNOT charge Multiple fees for enforcing MORE that one Liability Order and THANKFULLY this has been CONFIRMED by a recent LGO REPORT !!!!! I am hoping to start a NEW STICKY with full details !!!!

 

The HEAD H fee is also WRONG.......and once again, I will be posting details.....

 

 

WATCH THIS SPACE>>>>>>>>>

IS WRONG

A bailiff CANNOT charge Multiple fees for enforcing MORE that one Liability Order and THANKFULLY this has been CONFIRMED by a recent LGO REPORT !!!!! I am hoping to start a NEW STICKY with full details !!!!

The HEAD H fee is also WRONG.......and once again, I will be posting details.....

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cant wait for some evidence of this. The council keeps refering to legislation, and endorsing the actions.

Hi alison

its time for you to make a formal request to the Bailiffs for a breakdown of their fees: something like this :

the bailiff companies address

Dear Sirs,

SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST ( S.7.)

Dear Sirs,

Re: your council tax reference numbers

The purpose of this letter is to make a Subject Access Request pursuant to Section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998, as I object to the level of fees that have been applied to my particular case.

Accordingly, I require a full and detailed breakdown of the fees and charges that have been applied to my account. In providing this information, could you ensure that you provide a true copy of the screen print/computer record of my account.

With regards to van fees and attendance fees, please state the date and precise time of the attendance and the type of vehicle used.

Could you also confirm the name of the Certificate Bailiff dealing with my account and the date and court details where he gained his certificate and confirmation also that his certificate provides from him to work for your company.

Please find enclosed a postal order for £10.00 payable to the bailiff company. Could you please confirm that this request has been received? I am enclosing a stamped addressed envelope for this purpose.

I look forward to receiving this information as soon as possible, but in any event, within the strict time limits imposed under the above Act.

Yours Faithfully.

continue making payments to the council direct online or by a council tax payment card. Tell the Bailiff point blankly you be paying him nothing until the SAR is returned.and most importantly don't believe a word he says.and do not under any circumstances let him in.

In my experience any other letter to the Bailiffs will come back rather vague. Once you have the information on the fees then you will have some kind of starting point to argue with the council, because without it all they will do is back up whatever the Bailiff company tells them.

Seems like a good result for you.

 

If the Fees are as per all the Regs then why did they decide to drop them? Apparently it seems it is OK to levy on the same goods for more than one debt? Maybe their legal department should look closer at what is being spouted. Sounds like B&S writing letters for the Council again.

 

Now you can enjoy the weekend in peace but still be wary as sometimes these people have a habit of pleading ignorance.

 

PT

They dropped them because the car they levied on 18 months ago was on Hire Purchase. I had no idea what the levy was on because i was never given a notice of sizure otherwise i would have told them 18 months ago it was on finance.

Niether did the council, the council never had a clue what was levied, all they would say is the fees are legal and in line with legislation.

They still are inisting it was legal up until the time i contested it. I sent a SAR and the notice of seizure has on it "confirmed by neighbour at number -- " the council guy says thats fine their allowed to do that. the nieghbour hasnt a clue and swears she hasnt spoken to anyone about the car as no one has ever asked.

The guy from the council literally just endorses anything the Bailiffs tell him. It was only by getting a SAR that i got rid of the fees. The council was quite willing to tell me i must pay fees that they couldnt tell me anything about.

And that about levying twice is weird they levy a car for one account charge you then levy the car again and charge you again and then section head H charge you in case you do pay off the debt later. heres what the council say:

"With regards to your comments concerning a second levy, no second levy actually took place. As per legislation, B&S are able to their charge fees per liability order and as a levy was made on 15th January 2010 in respect of two liability orders, a levy fee was added per order. This action was correct."

so no second levy took place but a fee is in order? Its crazy!!!!!!!

And paying the council direct doesnt work unless the council plays ball and stops the LO the bailiff fees are tacked on to the debt so even if you have no council tax liability they can still pursue you for their fees on the original liability order.

P.S. with regards the Redemption fee Head H ( which by the way has also been dropped) the council state:

With regards to the Redemption Fee, this fee is charged in accordance with Head H in Schedule 5 of the Council Tax Regulations and is payable for the release of the listed goods back into the debtor's control. Although it is added to the case at the time goods are seized (this does not mean physically removed but seized from the debtor's ownership), the payment of this fee is not taken until all other fees and liability have been paid. If the debt is not paid, or B&S remove and sell goods, the Redemption fee is removed. However, in light of the levy being abandoned on the vehicle that the Redemption Fee was charged against, this fee has also been waived.

Update;

all levy fees and all associated charges are now dropped, but for your information the council still states that:

As per legislation, B&S are able to their charge fees per liability order and as a levy was made on 15th January 2010 in respect of two liability orders, a levy fee was added per order. This action was correct.

I am now totally satisfied with my result which is only due to the help i received on this forum. so thanks again you guys.