Hi all, thank for for your responses, I know that technically 'no cca no can enforce' but I was a bit concerned and confused about para 2 "Although there is a debt owed by you there is however no longer a live agreement in place under which the bank can be seen as a creditor and therefore sections 77 and 78 of the consumer credit act 1974 do not apply." Are they saying that 1:because the account is closed there is no reason to comply with the cca because sections 77 & 78 don't apply, 2:the bank cannot be seen as a creditor because there is no Live agreement.

Just an update on this. The original cca (which they returned the fee for) has now sparked a response from Central Debt Recovery Unit. Searching around the site and google shows that these are part of of the in-house team of MCS, and DG Solicitors who are also HSBC. I received a letter this morning from them acknowledging my CCA letter (originally sent to DG Solicitors as they were dealing with it). In their response they say - Note paragraph 2 "In respect of your request for a copy of the original, signed agreement for the above account. We can confirm that it has not been possible to locate this agreement. However there is more than sufficient evidence of your entry into an agreement with the bank and the variations to the terms and conditions of that agreement over the years. We would also like to point out that you have been informed that the account is closed. The debt was passed to ourselves who are the banks recovery agent on 14th March 2007. Although there is a debt owed by you there is however no longer a live agreement in place under which the bank can be seen as a creditor and therefore sections 77 and 78 of the consumer credit act 1974 do not apply. We now require your proposal to repay the outstanding balance in full within fourteen days to avoid any further recovery action." Now this account was placed into dispute with the bank in January 2007 by letter of complaint. The cca for this account was received on 20th June signed for so the 12+2 days are passed so they went into default. I just concerned that these seem to be passing this backwards and forwards amongst themselves. I have a number of charges relating to this account that are recoverable but am waiting for the bank to comply because my statements are incomplete ie S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)'d And I was never informed that the account was closed I found out after I sent the cca and not in writing either. I'm not trying to get out of paying this but I want a true figure of what I owe less penalty charges and interest that has been added recently. Anyone got any thoughts advice on this, or do I just let the 30 days pass and then they apparently commit an offence.

Hi nailpost, Thanks for the reply, I thought that was much the case, but I just wanted to be sure. I know it places the debt in dispute until they comply, however I was a bit confused with them returning the fee (which were P/Os ). I'll wait now until the limits are up and then complain. thank you again

Hi all, I have searched around the site without luck so can anybody answer the following question! What happens when you send out a CCA and the fee is returned, but they still demand payment that is allegedly owed for a debt and send letters. Does this mean that they cannot comply or don't want to. What would the next step be? A perplexed Dobiedogs

Morning everyone, This morning I became even more confused than I already was (if that's possible) so if anyones got any advice I'd be grateful, anyway... Originally I CCA'd MCS, they returned my fee and said DG Solicitors were dealing with it. I then sent the 3 CCA requests for two seaparate accounts and a credit card acc, to DG solicitors on 19th June which they received on the 20th June. At the same time I SAR'd the bank for all my accounts, so far I have only received statements for one account. Two of the P/Os were returned by Central Debt Recovery Unit, received 28th June (address as Worthing but postmark showed Birmingham!). There was no letter just a 'with compliments' type of slip and 'response to follow' scrawled across it. Today, 11th July, I have received a letter from DG Sols enclosing what I believe is a copy of one loan agreement, but in the letter they state that ' Please note that the above balance also relates to account numbers xxxxxxxxxxx and xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. Should we not receive your proposals for repayment within the ensuing 10 days we shall continue with our recovery procedures.' Now one of the account numbers mentioned is correct but the other isn't and isn't even the one I sent a request for in the first place. Can someone correct me if I'm wrong, but 1: shouldn't they have sent me copies of 2 loan agreements and my credit card agreement. 2: Until I get these and the statements from the bank the account remains in dispute. 3: the fact they returned 2 of the original 3 P/Os means they do not have to comply with the CCA request. I'm quite happy to make a payment offer on my loans as it's my debt, but should I wait until they have complied with the CCA requests. Sorry for being longwinded but I really am confused. Regards Dobiedogs

Hi Rory32, yes I will, I will be making an appointment at the TS next week, the lady I spoke to on the phone seemed quite concerned about what had happened. I will also look into the financial ombudsman route as well.

Hello all, Diddled, I understand now what you mean about 'capacity to contract' I have had a look at the new amendment to the latest mental health act where it states "In general, a contract entered into by a person who lacks capacity to contract is voidable if the other person knew or must be taken to have known of the lack of capacity." In this respect the bank certainly knew that my daughter had serious problems. I have fired off a letter of complaint to the bank refering to this, also their breach of the banking code and the fact that they took her benefits when they shouldn't have done. In the meantime I have SAR'd the bank and CCA'd the collection agencies as well. I just hope that I can convince either the bank or the dcs to actually accept a sensible and affordable repayment on the loan and see how I get on with the charges. Many thanks to all for the advice and support, I will let you know what responses we get, if any! dobiedogs

Hi diddled thank you for your questions 1) yes her mental health problems do stop her from managing her own affairs properly. she has periods when she seems quite capable but then the slightest upset and everything falls apart. 2) do you mean power of attorney? Until she reached 18 I managed everything for her and while I don't want to have to mollycoddle her all the time, I am trying, with medical help and other support to try and help her to be somewhat independent. 3) yes, the bank were made fully aware of her disability and mental health problems. This was made quite clear when I set up the original bank account when she was 17 to have her benefits paid in. It was also put on the computer and all her payments showed as either DWP or DLA. Also when when I realised that the bank was eating her money I went in and spoke to her personal banking manger and then did a letter of right of appropriation which I physically took into the bank.

Thanks for that I will make a complaint as you suggested and will also cca the dca. I have kept copies of letters sent to the bank and my daughters mental health worker also contacted the bank and spoke to them as well as she was appaled at what they were doing. With reference to the charges that is basically for the current account and overdraft as over a short period of time it really added up. The loan she had they refused the offer of £10 per month and insisted on much more which she couldn't afford. Anyway I will keep trying!

Hello, I am hoping that someone may be able to help with this problem concerning my daughter who is disabled and suffering from mental health problems. When she was 17 (now 20) she opened an account with HSBC, just a basic one with a debit card to have her benefits paid in. To start with no problem, however when her 18th birthday approached the bank started sending her promotional leaflets and offers of overdraft facilities and credit cards etc. They upgraded her account, gave her a cheque book, debit card, overdraft and a credit card. I personally went to the bank because she used the same branch as me and begged them not to do it. Account and debit card was fine but not the rest because i knew she would never cope with them and I had spent months showing her how to budget when she finally got her own place. 3 times I saw the personal banker and they really just shrugged their shoulders and said because she was 18 now it was nothing to do with me at all and she could do what she wanted. I even put my concerns in writing to them which they just ignored. To cut a long story short, she ended up in debt to the bank basically because she really couldn't manage the concept of paying on the correct day if her benefits didn't fall on the day that repayments were due. I went to the bank again and tried to explain because they had started to take all of her money, but they didn't want to know because it wasn't my account. I got her to telephone them and before I knew it, they had given her a loan to cover what she owed but they also extended her overdraft and left her card in place. The same thing happened again and when I looked through some of her statements she had charges for being overdrawn and card misuse etc. When they again started keeping her benefits (she went 3 weeks without any money at all) despite a letter stating right of appropriation. I made her change accounts and asked for time to pay for her. I have just begun the process of claiming all the charges etc back for her because I would say that these represent 80-85% of the original debt, but they have continually refused to accept the offer of payment of £10 per month that she has made and demanded immediate payment and closed her accounts. The cheeky so and so's then asked me to cover it to which I pointed out that when I tried to warn them that she would not be capable of handling credit cards etc they ignored and told them it was nothing to do with me. Now she has dca's chasing her and the debt continues to increase but the dca's keep changing and it is making her really ill all for £1,500 and she has actually had someone knock on the door and ask for the money, which terrified her. I'm just so annoyed at the bank because if they had listened to me this wouldn't have happened. So I have Sar'd the bank for her, do I now CCA the dca or the bank. Sorry for the length of this sorry tale, but any advice would be gratefully received.

Hello all, I'm a newbie who has just got the confidence together to take on the bank. Unfortunately for me I found this site after I ran into problems with the mighty HSBC. Basically when I realised I had problems late last year I contacted the bank for help and advice and got none whatsoever. All of a sudden my account was hammered with charges which I asked them to stop. They didn't and when I complained and mentioned the problems that had been caused by them, they said they would investigate and just passed it around several different people. Finally they closed my accounts, without telling me and handed the overdrafts made up from charges etc, to a dca who then passed it to another and now it is with DG Solicitors. I did make it clear that the account was in dispute and asked the bank why they had done this and they just said that they could. Now, having found this site, I am fighting back and have just sent off my SAR to them and will now wait the requisite 40 days to see what they say. Can anyone tell me if they have had the same problem of being run around the mill and being passed from one department to another without ever getting an answer to any question other than a load of gobbledegook. Congrats to those who have won and Good Luck to those just starting Dobiedogs

hello all, newbie here and hoping I'm doing the right things in the right order. I read and read on this site until my mind is now completely mashed. However I've taken the plunge and have just written my first SAR to HSBC and will see what sort of response I get, if any. I would just like to say that if it hadn't been for this site I don't think I would have been brave enough to even think about taking the bank on. Congrats to those successful ones and good luck to those just starting. Dobiedogs