Hmmm.....Interesting! Might give the FOS a go after all. Will see what, if anything, I get back from my original email to the today but its encouraging that they do get results sometimes, and not just for the financial institutions. As for BC, I'm an eternal optimist, I'm sure they will write (they had better be reading this:D). If they don't, I will get really p***** off. They called me 5 times in 8 minutes, they're gonna pay for that one way or another - almost got RSI from putting beer down, answer phone, pick beer up, put beer down............ No excuse for that sort of behaviour Stubie

Hi Lexis2000, Thanks for dropping by:) I re-read my original post and noticed I hadn't put in about the SAR. I have sent one but I'm not sure if I registered it. I will check but I wonder if the PO being cashed would qualify as evidence of receipt? Again, I haven't checked the PO so will do some homework tonight and see what I actually did. I will wait to see if the SAR turns up before troubling the FOS, had mixed experience of them - not related to the CCA. I'm also curious as to whether I will get a reply from Ms Renshaw (does anyone know if she really exists?). The letter stated that an acknowledgement only would be sent but I wonder if they will leave it when my letter rubbishes the entire contents of her last missive - time will tell. I've read a number of success stories but they don't seem to quantify what was won - I haven't read all of them, by any means. My preferred outcome would be to have the agreement declared, or acknowledged, unenforcible and get a refund of the balance of payments to expenses. I've spent the money and will pay it back but would like a refund of the balance. This will amount to a couple of grand as I have rarely used the card in recent years but let the interest roll - stupid really but there you are. I've just lost my job so the money will be really useful. Is this likely, in your opinion? Thanks again Stubie P.S. How do you do one of those pictures next to your name, I've got to get one of those:D S

Subbing Great thread everyone Cheers Stubie

Hi Shadow, I agree with you on that. Personally, I suspect it is BS put about by BC to try and throw the uninformed off track. Neither the FOS or TS have the power to vary the law and the law states a true copy of the executed agreement, with all the relevant definitions and regulations given due account. At the end of the day, s61 states that the executed agreement must be signed by the debtor and no-one ever signs T&Cs when they are a referred document. I'm sure you know all this but I wanted to dismantle another fairy story put about by the CCCs, on a public forum so anyone else, presented with the same arguement would not be put out of step by it. Appreciate your views and thanks, Having read extensively on this and other sites, I don't get a good feeling about any of the so called regulators but i doubt that the FOS would have nailed their colours to a statement so flagrantly at odds with legislation and established case law. Stubie

Hi supasnooper, Thanks for that. I've read the thread you mention and am waiting for the SAR to came back before I go the CPR route. I think this route is quite costly so would like to avoid if I can as redundancy has stunted my options in terms of expenses. I did send the SAR off a while back but they came back with "we need a document with your sig on to confirm your ID against our records", more delaying I guess. I don't think they have my sig to compare against anyway. They got a really blurred one which will be instantly recogniseable if they try to photoshop it. The SAR is due on June 20th, from memory. Will see what July brings. I have most statements back to Dec 01 and in that time I have spent about £400 (purchases) but paid £9500 into the account. I have no problem paying what I spent but a refund of all payments in excess of expenditure would be very welcome, in my present circumstances. How would you rate my chances? Thanks again Stubie

Hi All, Opened account in 1998 ish. Sent CCA request on 28th Feb 09 and received a copy of current T&Cs and a current agreement - blank but my name, address and card number printed on the back. The "agreement" refers to £12 charges (2006) and chip and pin (2006-7) as well as numerous other anomalies. Sent a letter stating that this is not a "true copy" and the nice Ms Renshaw sent me a letter advising that it was a true copy, was enforcible (and pay up:p). She also told me I could go to the FOS if i was unhappy. Sent a default notice, highlighting the anomalies, to which Ms Renshaw (she must be crippled with RSI ,all the letters she types:cool:) restated the position from the previous letter. Confirmed that the agreement sent was a true copy, enforcible etc etc. Also, the agreement had been updated with changes as appropriate. If I was unhappy, go to the FOS. No further communication would be entered into etc. Replied that the agreement was either a true copy or updated, it couldn't be both. They admit to updating therefore it can't be a true copy - awaiting reply. Anyone know why they are so keen to push you at the FOS - is it because they feel that the FOS are not strong enough to sort anything out (or too busy)? I've withheld payment so lots of calls from the goons in the Phillipines. One told me, when I started talking about CCA 74 compliance, "Act, what Act, I'm not interested in an Act. You are in arrears, I must take a payment today........etc" He didn't get one. Anyone else been here? What is the established wisdom, going forward? Any help appreciated Stubie

Hi All, Got an AOL (MBNA) card in 1997 ish. In March (28th) I sent off a CCA request to MBNA - no response to date. Waited 14 days and sent default notice - no response to date. Sent off SAR request - still waiting. Phone calls started as soon as I stopped paying them and a couple of letters which were replied to along the lines of "Where's my CCA??" Now received a court threat letter. Replied along the lines of "you've got no chance but go for it if you think you can pull it off" - waiting for reply. The best laugh was the letter stating that they had withdrawn my line of credit. I sent the card back in 2003 and haven't had one since. I have statements back to 2001 and can show that the last purchase was in April 2003. All I've paid since April 03 is charges and interest. Whenever I make a significant payment, they put the interest rate up. I have just been made redundant - told them in a letter. This got another 6% added to the interest rate but no formal response. I'm now bristling for a court battle although I don't think I will get the pleasure. Any advice would be appreciated but currently waiting for the next move from MBNA. They do appear to have stopped phoning for the time being. SAR is due (40 days) on 9th June 09. Thanks for any support/ guidance. Stubie

Hi, I spoke with a (UK) person from Barclaycard over the weekend (sunday evening actually, don't these people ever sleep:shock:) who told me that BC send out only T&Cs in response to a CCA s78(1) request because this is the advice given them by the FOS. Has anyone else had this? I challenged them to prove it and she said that BC would write to me. I have also written to the FOS seeking clarification from them - still waiting for replies from both. Anyone had similar info or anything else to add. I sent CCA requests to BC (visa) and BC (MC) - ex MS account - in March and now have 4 sets of T&Cs. In one response I was sent the T&Cs and a statement etc with a note that the CCA would follow (this is the old MS account) but the next letter contained more (different) T&Cs. No sign of any agreement for either account. Any comments? Stubie

Subbing with interest. Can anyone beat 5 calls in 8 minutes????? However, on Sunday evening (yep ,you read it right) I got a call from a UK call centre, very nice woman, in fairness, and I gave her all the phone call harrassment spiel from both barrels. She said, would I like her to remove my phone numbers from their record. And she did (so she says) but the calls have stopped, nothing since. Its early days yet but they do seem to have gone away. I did state that I wanted to resolve the matter but would only do so in writing, didn't lose my temper (an achievement, for me!) and was very reasonable. See how it goes! She also told me that BC only supply T&Cs in response to a s78(1) request as this was the advice given them by the FOS. I challenged her to evidence the claim and they will write to me - I will start a new thread once I get a reply. I have also put this claim to the FOS directly. Anyone else been told this? Stubie

Key People • Chairman: Richard K. Struthers • CEO: Shane Flynn Link MBNA Europe Bank Limited Company Profile - Yahoo! Finance Hope it helps S

I'm still reading through this thread so appologies if this has been covered. There are many loan agreements (e.g. Wilson Vs. SOS and Walker Vs. SPPL) where the ruling was found on the basis of interest being charged on fees or unavoidable expenses. In a credit card scenario, whereby the creditor charges an annual fee (E.g. Cap 1, Amex) should these fixed charges be immune to interest? What would be the implications of such interest charges in respect of the overall account validity? Stubie

Can you post a link to your HSBC thread and I will do and have a look. This site is too huge to trawl through, these days Stubie

A fellow welshman...welcome indeed.

Subbing

Hi, Sorry, I'm a bit confused, what did you actually apply for? You say the data controller replied but you mention a payment of £1. If you applied for an SAR then it should be £10 or £1 for a CCA 74 s78(1) request. Assuming its a typo, I sent a copy of a document scanned at low resolution so the sig is pixelated. You could put a line through it as SilverFox suggested or a coffee cup ring (oops, sorry) or in some way make the signature recognisable but not cut and pasteable. I remember reading on the OFT site that there are a number of means by which you can confirm your identity, one of which is your birth cert (which has no sig but is considered acceptable by the OFT. Try to avoid giving them anything that they can copy onto an agreement. stubie

I know but I can't read it all:sad: My head is ringing after 1000+ pages of CAG plus other forums and I'm on my 13th act (not including SI's) + the OH telling me (120+Db) that I'm spending too much time on the computer. OK, get a grip:)........deep breaths.................aaaah!!! Will try to research some more but if you can point me at a smaller target than the whole site I would be eternally grateful. Stubie

Hi SF, That's what I thought. They have to be different as both have charges as £12. I can show from statements as old as 2002 that the charges levied at that time were higher, so I can prove they have changed, even without the SAR responses, although this might prove it beyond doubt. I think I need to read up on the Fraud Act. So what is the purpose of s82? just T&C's and ancilliary docs. They would still need the original executed agreement to show the necessary authority to vary these, I think. Stubie

Subbing with interest. If someone has time to cast a quick eye over to my thread I would be grateful S http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/194468-unenforceable-credit-agreements-another.html#post2149037

To anyone passing. I have received a couple of alleged agreements sent to me, one blank, the other is a "blue peter collage". Since bothe of these can easily be shown to have been modified after the fact, does that mean they are unexecuted since I have not signed the amended form? I'm aware of S82 of the CCA but was just wondering how this becomes the executed agreement since an agreement only becomes executed at the time it is signed by both parties. How enforcible are post correction/ amendment agreements? Thanks S

Hi Everyone, One final thing. MBNA have asked for a copy of a document with my signature (passort, driving license etc). Where would I stand if I were to supply a photoshopped passport. If I took the amended document to court as evidence of the fraud, would I leave myself open to a counterclaim along the same lines. What does anyone think? Stubie

Thanks for the help and advice, Will read up and post when I get the next consignment of junk mail from the CCCs:)

They are all credit cards, and in fairness, the sums are not huge, although my mortgage is since I took it over 10 years - repayment. I need to be in a position to keep up payments on the house once my income stops, without worrying about the CCCs. I have sent subject access requests to to two of them, didn't want too much on the go at one time. But I also have all my statements going back years (sad really). MBNA replied to the SAR yesterday saying they needed proof of ID with my signature, just thinking how to proceed with this as I am concerned that, if I provide a signature, they will copy paste onto and agreement and say, here it is!!!! Quick Summary: Barclaycard Visa: No sign of a CCA but sent T&Cs - they have sent 4v copies of them, so far (why!!!) plus some other stuff - now in default, default notice sent. Written to confirn that the documents send do not comply. Awaiting response. Barclaycard mastercard (used to be Morgan Stanley): sent T&Cs only. Now in default, default notice sent. Written to confirn that the documents send do not comply. Awaiting response. Halifax: Sent Agreement and T&Cs and a very hostile letter. Agreement has no sigs (claim SI 1557), address is incorrect at time of inception, charges listed as £12, not £25 as was the case, credit limit wrong, shows current limit not original..... the list goes on. Letter sent highlighting irregularities and confirming that it is not a "true copy" or "executed" MBNA (used to be AOL): no reply to date. Had a reply to the SAR request but nothing on the original CCA request. Capital One: Sent blank agreement and current T&Cs. Now in default, default notice sent. Written to confirn that the documents send do not comply. Awaiting response. SAR request submitted, no response, to date (still within 40 days) Mint: CCA requested, no response (still within 12 working days). You mention that the 30 days has gone, where does that come from, I have read extensively but not picked that up. I could be in overload as I am trying to get through the 757 pages of the Tamadus epic thread, at the moment - on page 312 now. Also, are there any other threads that you could recommend as a source of good current info, save me trawling through them all. Thanks for the reply Stubie

Hi, Not trying to shirk my dues but many of these cards are paid off, in terms of the capital spent, they are just interest on interest and as I pay, the rates go up and I stand still. I'm more than happy to pay what I owe. I struggle with receiving penalty charges because the payment on the interest on the interest (deliberate repeat) took 12 days for the bank to process, even though it was an electronic transfer. I'm paying out a significant chunk of my wages just to stand still. I have recently been put on notice of redundancy, which I communicated to all my alleged creditors. The response was silence in writing, the phone calls started to get payments, even though I had made them. Oh, and MBNA increased my interest rate from 29.9% to 35.9%. Times are hard enough, I'm losing my job and would like to see if I can put an end to all this whilst I still have an income to settle from. Stubie

I'm still reading my way through this mammoth thread (up to page 231 now). I will read it all (promise) but I need some info now. Appologies if this is covering old ground. Did anyone ever find the relevant legislation that confirmed that an individual could not profit from the proceeds of a criminal act. Thinking particularly about s85 non compliance and recovery of costs & charges retrospectively. Thanks Stubie

Big time!!!! That said, I'm hooked, on page 203 now and still can't put it down, will this be published when its finished, it has to be a best seller.