I dont know whether the car is HP or finance. I'll have a look next time we go and visit them. In their case would it be better for it to be HP? The car is off road and needs more money to repair it than the cars worth. The Welcome Finance was only last year, end of I think. That might be why they're not willing to agree to something else. And yeah, it is good news about the PPI! Yesterday the PPI paid out over £2000 to GE Money!!!!!!!! I'll have a look at this aswell next time we visit cos I want to make sure they paid the additional interest and late payment charges that they accumulated as a result of their incompitance.

Sorry for not replying for a while......just a very quick update...................... Bad news: First Response car payments are taking them to court. Got no further detaiils on the extent of this, but they arent paying this debt to them anymore, and all dealings will now be through a court? Welcome finance wont lower the payments. They said that because its secured on the house, they cant change the payment. Is that right?! Royal Mail have LOST the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) request that we sent to Lloyds TSB. Never arrived at its destination apparently. Good news: THE PPI IS PAYING OUT!!!!!!!!! We wrote more than 1 letter, and had to send them a copy of THEIR terms and conditions and they had just made up clauses as to why they werent paying, but we were able to prove thats not what they signed up for. Went through the appeeals procedure, got more medical tests and records sent, and they sent a letter that ALMOST sounded like an apology! Going to resend the SAR request this week and send this one special delivery!

Thanks Gizmo, I have taken your post and added answers in red. The secured debts and the car loan are the problem here - don't worry about the unsecured for present. They are in neg equity so a remortgage would not be possible. Is the car fiannce a personal loan or HP? How much longer before this is paid off. I couldnt find the paperwork for the car loan. It's done through first Response though. I have sent them a letter offering them a reduced payment. Does FIL get hie petrol reimbursed? If it is not, his actual net income after car loan and petrol is £562. That income is inclusive of the reimbursed petrol. He doesnt get reimbursed for all of it, which is stupid. He probably makes about £700 if you take the petrol cost away. Take away the car payment and its about £472 net income. If she was working what would her income be? If you get the PPI to pay out how long would it do so for - is for term of illness or a set period. Does she receive any sick pay? She was clearing about £1200 per month. She is currently on £300 per month sick pay. The PPI would run for either 5 years or until the date of expiry of the policy which ever comes first. In this case, the date of expiry would be March 2010, so it would run until then if she didnt go back to work. There will be no CCA as this is over £25k and not a regulated agreement - there wil lhowever be a loan agreement of some sort and this wil lbe written into the deeds of the house somewhere. The application form or key facts they were sent wil lhave details of teh PPI, and I am pretty sure there should be an insurance policy sent. Wasnt aware of that, thanks. How do I get copies of the loan agreement then? Would that be sending off a SAR request or is that only on things subject to the CCA? I know very little about PPI but suggest you have a read here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/ppi/ I have read through this post previously, which makes me think there would be a good case for it being mis sold to them. Only if they don't charge and to my knowledge only CCCS or payplan do this. These are secured loans with sub prime lenders, who have already started possesion proceedings - highly likely you would succeed in any event. They have gone through CCCS for the unsecured stuff and credit/store cards. I will list the whole lot below. They wouldnt touch the other stuff as it was too high a value and secured apparently. I will speak to them again I think. Absolutely no point in them beating themselves up about it - the majority on this board, myself included have found ourselves in debt and incurred dificulties repaying and are happy to share our expeirences to help others . Totally agree and very grateful for the help. I suggestyou do this for all other accounts also. Do you know what other accounts could I reclaim un necessary charges for? They only have the 1 bank account account for which has accrued charges. The other is ok. All of the other things are loans and mortgages, all of which are still current. 1. Your in laws have to seriously face the prospect that they proabbaly cannot afford their house - even if the PPI was dropped, they would still be in neg equity and not in a position to remortgage to cheaper rates. After they have cleared the arrears they are still paying out £1200 per month. What are rents like in their area? This is nearly the whole of your FIL salary at present. FIL is facing up tho this prospect. MIL refused to accept it - part of the problem. Very much a pride thing. Rent is about £400pcm for a house similar to theirs in their area. 2. Generally the way out of debt is to increase income and reduce outgoings - once the bank charges have been reclaimed then the arrears could be cleared, and the outgoings would reduce by £250 per month. I'm going to make sure that the bank charges are used to clear arrears and pay off things that they are accumulating charges on. 3. If the loan is a personal loan then I would suggest you make token payments on that. Unfortunately they have all laons secured on the house. Full breakdown below. 4. If your FIL is not able to reclaim his petrol money then he maybe needs to consider a different job as at present his income is severly reduced by the cost of transport for this position (£1450 take home less £600 petrol and £238 car loan) he is actually only leaving £562 disposable income from his salary, and that is not including maintenace, tax, mot etc. I think our message is getting through to him that he is in a waste of time job. He is now actively looking somewhere where he doesnt drive for a living. Just something simple like working at the local Asda warehouse nets their neighbour £18k per year and he's going to get an application. 5. What level of income is your MIL likely to return to? About £1200 per month. However, she is now confined to a wheelchair. She was a care assistant at a local nursing home. I cant see her going back there any time soon. There are stil lots of questions that need answering before a full picture is seen, a lot will depend on the PPI outcome. There is more info on bankruptcy here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/56970-insolvency-dealing-debt.html Below is a full list of where all money is owed and what gets paid. Incomes are below this list. 1. GE Money £58000 £594 (+£250 to clear arrears as directed by court) = £844pm. 2. Redstone Mortgages £26500 £238pm 3. Welcome Finance £16850 £368.90pm Loans 1 - 3 are all secured. The rest below are not. 4. First Response (car payment) £4000 £228pm. 5. Car Finance (unknown which company at this time - car was written off in crash 5 years ago) £1000 £10pm 6. Littlewoods £800 £10pm 7. Provident £876 £40pm 8. Forward Trust £594 £2pm 9. 2 x Aqua credit cards + 1 x Capital One £1500 total. £1 pm each. Arranged through CCCS. 10. Citi Financial £900 £1pm arranged through CCCS. 11. TV Hire Purchase £184 £37pm 12. Council Tax £800 arrears £9pm taken direct from wages to cover this. 13. Water £300 arrears unsure of payment plan at this time. Total arrears/Debts = £112304. Total Paid per months on repayments = £1710.90per month Income: 1. FIL Wage £1000pm (includes rebate for petrol) 2. Industrial Injuries Benefit £200pm 3. Former Employer Pension £361pm 4. MIL Sick Pay £300pm Total £1861pm Other Expenses Per Month: Council Tax £100 Gas £40 Electricity £40 Phone/Broadband/TV £40 (slightly inflated at the moment to repay small arrear) Petrol £300 Cigarettes £150 (Trying to get him to give that up for a start!) Car Insurance £17 Life Insurance £10 House Insurance £32 Food/Drink/Clothes etc £250 Misc Emergencies £50 Total £1029 So, all in all per month..... Income = £1861 Debt = -£1710.90 Expenses = -£1029 Total = -£878.90 Now you can see the problem that we have. If MIL was working, they'd break about even. But tthat aint gonna happen, so if PPI pays out +£594 If First Response accept lower payment +£178. Thats £772 better off per month. We are currently negotiating with Welcome to see if they will accept £100 per month which would mean that they would be a further £268.90 better off. THis would mean that they wouldnt keep falling behind. The BIGGEST challenge to face is getting them tio change their way of thinking about money. My wife and I look at this as they would have more money to save. They would think that they have more money to spend each month.

I have just written a letter to be posted tomorrow after receipt of a letter that the GP is writing to confirm AGAIN that this is not a pre-existing medical condition. I have found out that they are not paying out because she went to the doctors within 2 years prior to the commencement of the policy. It was 22 months prior to be exact, which would be correct however............ Found in their terms and conditions that it states 12 months and not 2 years, so they're just trying to fob us off hoping that we didnt have the policy documents to hand. Copies are in with the letter. I hate these people. If they pay out, they will pay at about £600 per month. I invisage that mum-in-law will be off work for at least 12 months, if not indefinately. This policy will pay for itself in 22 months. If they still dont pay out then FOS will be involved and Watchdog and we will look at claiming back a refund due it being mis sold. It the moment, we have worked out that their outgoings are about £800 more than their income. This will help with £600 of it, and I have written to all the other companies requesting that the inteest be frozen, and the monthly payments reduced, so that they can start to pay off some of this debt. Because they cant meet the payments, the late payment charges each month are extorsionate, which just adds to the problem. So, letters are in the post. Is there anything else which I can do?

Thanks sue

Sue, yes we did. We went in there with a whole page of A4 written out in a table detailing what was owed, to whom, and how much was paid out each month. The top section was split into the CCCS stuff so it was very clear and brought to his attention. I'll probably give the debt action line a call tomorrow. Tried ringing them last week and they said that I've have to call back another day cos they were busy. Unfortunately I didnt get a chance as we travelled the length of the country to go to the in-laws house.

Went to CAB today.....not much help at this stage. Waited 3 hours, they took dad-in-law's details filled in a form with all incomes and outgoings. We will get a letter in a few days from their debt specialist (thought thats who we were going to speak to today! ) The only thing wecame away with was a debt leatlet and one on bankruptcy. When we left the bloke said "good luck" and then laughed, so didnt fill us with a great deal of confidence. Also did find something interesting........going through all the GE Money court case papers last night. GE Money didnt bring anything signed by the 'defendant' to court. In the paperwork there is no signed contract or anything like that. I would have thought that they would have brought this? I am right in thinking this? I have sent of the CCA request so we'll see if they actually have it! I am going to contact the companies myself in the meantime to try and get the amounts that they pay back each month reduced. Can someone give me some pointers on the content of these letters. Many thanks.....

Hi there everyone, I need some advice on behalf of my in laws who are up the preverbial creek without a paddle, approaching some rapids with alligators and a big waterfall! I know this is a long post, but REALLY need some help! Basically, I put a post up a few days ago about the possibility of them declaring bankruptcy, based on the info that they had supplied us with. Today, I have sat down with them and they have laid everything on the table in a last ditch attempt to get some help. Here's where they stand...... £58k GE Money secured loan. £844pcm £17k Welcome Finance secured loan. £368.90pcm £26k Redstone Mortgage. £238pcm Total secured on house = approx £100,000. Their house is only worth about £80,000. £4k - car (needs car for work as a meter reader) £288pcm £1k - other car (car written off in accident 3 years ago, but still having to pay for it.) £10 pcm There are other debts of £4000 which are taken care of by CCCS (think thats what its called.) These are mainly catalogues and credit cards which are paid back at £26pcm in total. The thing is, the loans secured on the house take about £1450 per month, which is about than what dad-in-law brings in. This is where the trouble starts. The above outgoings dont include things like electricity, gas, council tax, phone bill, food and especially petrol. Being a meter reader for the company he works for means that not only does he use his own car but he buys his own petrol. This is often in excess of £600pcm. So, all in all, the outgoings are in excess of £2400, and the incomings about £1500. Not good. The thing is, they have missed various payments on the above, and as such, GE Money has taken them to court and got a possession order on their house, which is not to be enforced so long as they pay £250pcm to clear their arrears. (The £844 which tey pay includes that £250. They would normally pay £594 to GE Money.) The mortgage company have done a similar thing, but they cant find the paperwork in relation to this (worryingly!) so I cant comment on what the result was but I think its similar to GE Money, ie pay it or lose it. The GE Money one wouldnt be a problem apart from mum-in-law being off work ill, and will be for some time, probably in excess of 12 months. Her wage was covering this. The PPI (rip off) for the GE Money is refusing to pay out which is why they are getting into more and more arrears with it. (Basically, she now has arthritis in her right knee, but because she went to the Doctors with pain in her LEFT knee in 2003, they arent paying out because it was a pre-existing medical condition, despite the Doctor saying it's not and........listen GE Money.........ITS A DIFFERENT KNEE!!!!!!! What gives them the right to over rule a Doctor!? ) Anyway, I have done some research and believe that they were mis-sold this PPI. They were never asked about medical conditions, and were told that because of the high value loan, they HAD to have the insurance or it wouldnt be approved. I have sent off a CCA to get the copy of the original contract sent to us (yep, they cant find that also )to see if we can prove this, and then maybe could claim the premium back. This premium is £13000 on what was a £41000 loan. It was all done over the phone, so hopefully it all came pre-filled in, just requiring a sig and showing no option to opt out of the PPI. I'm umming and arring whether to try and reclaim the policy or to try and get them to start paying out on it, which would be quicker. If I could get them to start paying out, then it would pay for itself within 2 years, not including interest charges. I have also looked into their bank charges that they have accumulates in the past 4 years from Lloyds TSB. They have been charged in excess of £2600 for DD's and S/O's and overdraft breaches. Rediculous. I have sent the SAR request to them to start the ball rolling to try and get these reclaimed. So, thats everything on the table.......what do I do now? Do I try and reclaim the PPI? Do we look down the bankruptcy route? (Which they dont want to as they'd lose the family home and they REALLY dont want to do that.) Do I look at contacting the companies direct and trying to get the payments down in price? Do I contact a 3rd party company to arrange trying to get the payments down on our behalf? I am taking them to the CAB tomorrow. What advice can anyone give? Just take everythign and lay it on the table like i'm doing here? They already know that they have been stupid with money, but having looked through what records they do have, things like incurring late payment charges for things have put them more and more in debt, for which they've then got another loan to try and cover it, and its all just spiralled out of control. They are really lovely people, but the sort of people that think if they ignore it, it will go away, but this won't. Dad-in-law works very hard to try and keep afloat, but this has just got on top of them now and making them ill. I've given them the lectures, opened their eyes to the seriousness of what they're in, and now want to get it sorted. ANY, and I do mean ANY advice would be GREATLY appreciated. Many thanks.

Thanks for the advice so far. Pam, sorry to sound like I dont know a thing, but please could you tell me what a CCA request is and what does it do? Also what are full SAR's? We have just found out that GE Money have already taken them to court and obtained a repossession order. Does anyone know who decides on what the market value of the house is? Would it just be an estate agents valuation, or would we have to pay for a surveyer etc? We are going to the CAB hopefully on Monday. This is a nightmare.

Thanks for the reply. We're going to get the house valued by an estate agent just to give us a brief idea of what the value would be. I think I've found soemthing like you said called a 'transaction at an undervalue.' The thing is, no one sells their house at the asking price, and I believe that trustees would sell it at auction and get less than the market value anyway? I was just wondering whether there is a level that is 'acceptable' that would not class it as a transaction at an undervalue? Trouble is, we cant borrow more than £68k and have about £3k in savings. Its not that we dont want to pay more for it, its that we cant.

Hello all, This is my first post and I dont know where to turn! The problem is not with myself, but with my wife's parents. They are horrendously in debt and will be losing their house very soon if something isnt done. They have: £58k loan with GE money that is secured on the house £18k loan with Welcome Finiance secured on the house £26k mortgage And various other personal loans that put the total to about £110k. The value of their house is only about £85k. The problem has arisen from the mum in law becoming ill, not being able to work and her PPI now not paying out despite months of arguing. We will be starting the ball rolling with a claim for a mis-sold PPI thanks to info from this site. However it means that legal proceeding are being undertaken as we speak. However, they really do not want to lose their hosue, and the option that I am looking at is for us to buy their house, and for them to then decalre themselves bankrupt. However, the question that I cannot find an answer to is what price the house has to be sold for? Can the house be sold to us for a reasonable ammount, say £70k which pays of most of the debts, and then them declaring themselves bankrupt to clear the rest? Or would the house have to be sold at the market value? What would happen if it was sold to us cheaper - would the bankruptcy trustees come after us for the difference? I have trawled the internet and can only find info on buying the house from the trustees but nothing about them selling the house prior to becomming bankrupt. I have read some info on the bankruptcy act, and do not want to commit any criminal offences by doing this, but we just cannot borrow more than about £70k and just want to help. I know this a lot of dept to get into, however the majority of it is down to illness, and stupid PPI's which have incurred massive interest and late payment charges. ANY help or advice would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks.