Hey Davey... Loooonnggg time no speak.... Have been out of the country for a while and the interesting thing is there has been no mail from Turnbulls**ters and as my ex misses changed the phone number as well there has been no phone correspondence either... The other delight I had on my return is that she has decided to go bankrupt and has decided to hand the keys back of the house so has moved is into rented accommodation... Just as a matter of interest as a consumer are we bound to give out correspondence address or tell creditors where we are living...??? Your thoughts would be appreciated... TTFN...

Hey Davey77... Hope all is well with you as we enter one of the most beautiful times of the year...SPRING...!!! Just wanted to give you a little update on proceedings... Just got home from Uni and received the letters below, interestingly this bunch of 'amateurs' haven't even got the common courtesy, or professionalism to seal the envelope so any Tom, Dick , or Harry could have a look at the contents...They even have the audacity to put confidential legal documents on their franking stamp...!!! Anyway enough of that...Have added the letter and the courts cost breakdown they sent...Your thoughts would be again appreciated as for our next line of approach... Interestingly they haven't even made mention of the letter I sent to them, although I have received 2 yes that is TWO lots of the same correspondence from HFO with a covering letter basically saying please find enclosed the info I have asked for, which has already been sent, and they have also added a copy of the application form I put up previously and a number of made up statements... Enjoy the sunshine... http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt119/firewalka/TRSLetter2Apr09.jpg http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt119/firewalka/TRSLetter2Apr09CourtCosts.jpg http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt119/firewalka/TRSLetter2Apr09CourtCostsPart2.jpg

Thanks Guys for you feedback... Have just got back from the Post Office will keep you informed of any progress... TTFN...

Hey Davey77... As promised...Your feedback is greatly appreciated... Dear Sirs, I refer to your recent correspondence of the 4th and 18th March 2009. The contents have been duly noted. Please be advised that I have written to your client, HFO Services, twice regarding this particular situation, on the 26th January 2009 and the 8th February 2009, which I have proof of receipt. Your clients lack of professionalism and downright “REFUSAL” to comply with such a simple request leaves me with no doubt that your client is now in default of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 request made of them, by formal complaint, on the 8th February 2009, and as such they have now committed an offence under the Consumer Credit Act. Your client has failed to comply with section s61(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974, and that under section s77(6) of the said Act is not entitled to enforce the agreement. Any demand of payment made by you, or your client, is now deemed as attempted fraud and ANY court action you instigate will be welcomed. Frankly, I am surprised of the need to advise a firm of solicitors about the Terms and Conditions surrounding my Consumer Credit Agreement requests (Consumer Credit Act, 1974); dated 26th January 2009, for which I have proof of receipt. I can only assume therefore that your client has failed to inform you of their non compliance. Your client had until the 24th February 2009 to comply with this legal request. They have now committed an offence under the Consumer Credit Act. Should you, or your client, persist with threats of legal action as stated in your letter, I will welcome the opportunity for a judge to look at several offences committed by HFO under The Consumer Credit Act, 1974, as well as your client’s non-compliance with and total disregard for the law on this occasion. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. I would also like to bring to your attention that I am fully aware of your infamous use of Wandsworth County Court and the frivolous claims you are notorious for pursuing, especially where unenforceable credit agreements are concerned. Furthermore, the “REFUSAL” of both you, and your client, to communicate this matter in a professional manner, when it has been requested that ANY communication is ONLY done in writing, has resulted in a formal complaint of your behaviour to the Office of Fair Trading, Trading Standards, and The Law Society. Any further telephone communication from you, or any third parties connected with you, will be deemed as behaviour constituting harassment; I require ALL communications in writing for future use. Do not telephone me again - remove any telephone numbers you hold for me from your systems. This type of debt collection method is contrary to the Administration of Justice Act 1970, in that it is intended to cause alarm and distress to the recipient. Your methods have not, and will not be tolerated. As previously stated a formal complaint, containing copies of all correspondence, including yours, has now been submitted to the relevant authorities. Take further note that continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003. Communicate in writing and ONLY in writing, your telephone calls will NOT be answered. HOWEVER, CALLS WILL TRIGGER COMPLAINTS TO THE REGULATORY BODIES. Finally, it has been necessary for me to carry out a number of due diligence checks surrounding you, and your client. So to cover the costs of these checks an administration charge of £30 has been levied against you, and any further correspondence made to you will encounter a further £10 per letter. I now require you to pay this debt within 28 days; failure to comply with this request will instigate court proceedings to resolve this matter. Any commencement of court action will include the request for interest and costs. I trust this makes my position regarding this matter crystal clear. Yours faithfully At the top of the letter am I wise to put 'Without Prejudice' or keep it as 'Formal Complaint'...??? TTFN...

Hey Davey77... Am in the middle of compiling a letter, which I will post in due course for your constructive feedback yet in the meantime here is the link to the Wandsworth CC reference... HFO Services - URGENT HELP REQUIRED !!! - The Consumer Forums Chat again soon...

Hey Daveyy77... How are things with you...??? Just wanted to give you an update of the situation. I have received these 2 letters over the past couple of weeks, with quite a few follow up phone calls. Have read a number of posts on this forum and it just seems that this bunch of jokers have no regard for the law and do just whatever they wish to get 'their' money, including, allegedly, fraudulently copying of statements and making out they have come from the original lender, also that there are a number of different named companies all linked into one in the same building, there has also been a number of complaints made about them to TS and the OFT it is also alleged that the magistrates court in Wandsworth(need to double check that bit) are getting quite annoyed with there antics and throwing out their claims...Just a bunch of jokers really... Anyway back to business just wondered if you could give your once over these 2 letters I have received and what you think my options may be...Still had no response from HFO regarding the CCA... Have a GREAT Weekend in the sunshine, off to finish a Uni assignment for Monday... TTFN... http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt119/firewalka/TRSLetter4Mar09.jpg http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt119/firewalka/TRSLetter18Mar09.jpg

Hey Davey77... A further update for you... Just contacted my local Trading Standards regarding the phone call I received today and was basically told that they were unable to assist me in such a matter that it would have to be the Information Commissioner's Office... I was quite surprised by this and pressed the situation further...I asked about the OFT and how they could help, to which I was told that this could be a possibility under this particular instance yet the the ICO would be a better option... A little confused now... So going to leave it for the evening and contact the ICO and OFT tomorrow... Going to get some oranges and lemons to add to the pancakes and sit and watch Utd beat Inter in their own back yard...!!! TTFN...

Hey Davey77... How are things with you...??? Just wanted to give you a quick update on proceedings... Today is the 14th day after sending the letter you critiqued for me recently. As yet I haven't received anything through the post from HFO, although not surprisingly I have just received a phone call from their solicitors...Turnbull Rutherford... The curious thing for me now is can this be deemed as an attempt in getting in contact within the 14 day period...??? The call caught me a little off guard actually as my young daughter answered the phone and passed it to me whilst mid flow completing a University assignment... The jist of the conversation, although cut short by myself after realising what was going on, was this person using a rather aggressive tonality of voice attempting to engage me in a conversation about 'why hadn't I attempted to contact them to find out where their reply to my request was'... Cheekie B@[email protected] than attempting to be devious and contact me on the phone, which is against what I requested within the letter sent to you, why don't you just reply by post...!!! So what thoughts do you have regarding my next step/s...??? As yet I have been unable to get to the CAB, due to other committments and opening times of my local CAB yet I am on the case, to get confirmation of the noncompliance request... TTFN...

Hey Davey77... Thanks for the links today, they make interesting reading... I have compiled the following letter to send to HFO on Monday your feedback would be greatly appreciated... Ref: FORMAL COMPLAINT A/c no. xxxx xxxx xxxx xxxx Dear Sirs, Thank you for your letter of 5th February 2009, the contents of which have been duly noted. On the 26th January 2009 I wrote to you requesting a copy of the credit agreement and other information under the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (Sections 77-79). I am of the opinion that the documentation you have sent fails to comply with my legal request to supply a true copy of the original Consumer Credit Agreement for the above account. Under s61 CCA - Signing of agreement, it states: (1) A regulated agreement is not properly executed unless— (a) a document in the prescribed form itself containing all the prescribed terms and conforming to regulations under section 60(1) is signed in the prescribed manner both by the debtor or hirer and by or on behalf of the creditor or owner, and (b) the document embodies all the terms of the agreement, other than implied terms, and © the document is, when presented or sent to the debtor or hirer for signature, in such a state that all its terms are readily legible. s127(3) CCA, also states: (3) The court shall not make an enforcement order under section 65(1) if section 61(1)(a) (signing of agreements) was not complied with unless a document (whether or not in the prescribed form and complying with regulations under section 60(1)) itself containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor or hirer (whether or not in the prescribed manner). I would also like to bring your attention to the Office of Fair Trading guidelines that state: The Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations The Regulations apply to all regulated consumer credit agreements and consumer hire agreements, including modifying agreements. In particular, the agreement must contain certain financial and other information. This must be set out in a specified order, with sub-headings, and shown together as a whole. The information must be of equal prominence, and easily legible. In the case of credit agreements, the required information is: · nature of the agreement · parties to the agreement · key financial information (including the amount of credit or the credit limit, the duration of the agreement, the APR, the total amount payable, and the amounts and timing of repayments) · other financial information (including a description and cash price of goods or services, any advance payments, the total charge for credit, the rate of interest, how and when interest charges are calculated and applied, the order of allocation of payments, and variable rates and charges) · key Information (including default or other charges, any security provided by the borrower, and prescribed statements of the protection and remedies available to the borrower), and · a signature box, and other form of consent where applicable. Both the borrower and the lender must sign the agreement. A copy of the executed agreement must be given to the borrower, either when he signs it or within seven days. A further copy of the unexecuted agreement may also need to be provided. If the agreement is cancellable (because it was signed off trade premises), notice of cancellation rights must be included in the copy agreement, and must also generally be sent by post or email to the borrower within seven days. If the above requirements are not met, the lender can only enforce the agreement against the borrower by getting a court order. Local authority trading standards services or the OFT can take enforcement action against the lender, using powers in Part 8 of the Enterprise Act 2002. As you are no doubt aware section s77(6) also states: If the creditor fails to comply with Subsection (1) (a) He is not entitled , while the default continues, to enforce the agreement. Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law. You have failed to comply with a lawful request for a true, signed copy of the said agreement and other relevant documents mentioned in it, failed to send a full statement of the account and failed to provide any of the documentation requested. Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS. Furthermore I shall counterclaim that any such action constitutes unlawful harassment. Please note you may also consider this letter as a statutory notice under section 10 of the Data Protection Act to cease processing any data in relation to this account with immediate effect. This means you must remove all information regarding this account from your own internal records and from my records with any credit reference agencies. Should you refuse to comply, you must, within 21 days, provide me with a detailed breakdown of your reasoning behind continuing to process my data. It is not sufficient to simply state that you have a ‘legal right’. You must outline your reasoning in this matter and state upon which legislation this reasoning depends. Should you not respond within 14 days I expect that this means you agree to remove all such data. Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies: * You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. * You may not add further interest or any charges to the account. * You may not pass the account to a third party. * You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency. * You may not issue a default notice related to the account. I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. I also wish to remind you that ANY communication from your company, regarding this matter, is required ONLY in writing. Any further telephone communication from you, or any third parties connected with you, will be deemed as behaviour constituting harassment; I require ALL communications in writing for future use. Do not telephone me again - remove any telephone numbers you hold for me from your systems. I have deemed your past telephone calls to be a breach of the Office of Fair Trading guidelines. If you continue with them, after the receipt of this letter, an official complaint, together with a log recording the times and frequency of the calls will be passed both to that office and to the Trading Standards office. For your information note that ALL telephone calls are taped. This type of debt collection method is contrary to the Administration of Justice Act 1970 in that it is intended to cause alarm and distress to the recipient. Your methods will not be tolerated. A formal complaint, containing copies of all correspondence including yours, has now been submitted to the relevant authorities. This will be relevant to questions of your fitness to hold a licence under the Consumer Credit Act, whether or not it results in a prosecution. Take further note that continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003. Communicate in writing and ONLY in writing, your telephone calls will NOT be answered. HOWEVER, CALLS WILL TRIGGER COMPLAINTS TO THE REGULATORY BODIES. I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter. I look forward to hearing from you in writing. Yours faithfully Your thoughts and feedback are appreciated...

NICE....!!! Regarding... Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY Action against an account whilst it remains in dispute. The lack of a credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies. * You may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. * You may not add further interest or any charges to the account. * You may not pass the account to a third party. * You may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency. * You may not issue a default notice related to the account. I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit. You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint. Am I correct in thinking that this element actually means that there is a possibility that we may have a solution to my original question...??? So if the original amount was deemed unlawful, due to the amount being made up of unlawful charges, the amount they, HFO, are now pursuing is also deemed unlawful and HFO are breaking the law by attempting to rape and pillage my pockets for an extortionate amount, made up of approx 80% of interest and charges.... Davey77 you are fantastic...!!! This situation just gets BETTER & BETTER the more that comes out...!!! Still have this desire to become a lawyer that specialises in consumer credit law to help people like you and I become more aware of our ACTUAL rights, that we are never informed about...Also being led to believe that just because a company gives you something to sign it can still be deemed unlawful...!!! Never thought I would ever say thank you to McDonalds yet...I'm LOVING IT...!!!

Interesting post to say the least... So having looked at this particular post am I correct in thinking that the CCA I signed was before the change made in April so really they are breaking the law by attempting to enforce an agreement that wasn't presented to me correctly in the first place....??? If this is the case what options do you feel I have open to me now...??? You know something Davey77 every time I learn something new about our wonderful legal system and the way it is abused by so called corporate companies ie the Banks... I really get excited...!!! It makes me feel like Hannibal from the A Team...'I love it when a plan comes together...!!!'

I agree that it says all of those things yet it also states 'I have read and agreed to be bound by the Terms and Conditions (T & Cs)' so can they not enforce this aspect...???

Hey Davey77... Not sure if the quality is good enough for you to actually see anything yet here it is... Monument CCA picture by firewalka - Photobucket Thanks once again...

Hey Davey77... How are things with you...??? Just to let you know I have received a copy of the CCA from HFO with a number of statements... Interesting to note that these particular statements I have never seen...There just seems something not quite right with the dates and figures I have on these statements I have just received and those from the letters that were sent when they were pressurising me for payment... So what options do you think I know have now...???

Sorry Davey77 just seen your other post about solicitors...Thanks for that again I really appreciate it...

I suppose it's just like Wales then...If you get lonely there are always the sheep and ya wellies...!!!

My closest friend spent 8 weeks in NZ a few years ago and he claims it is one of the best places he has ever visited, and he has visited a few...Yet to much like Blighty for my liking... Would prefer their OZ cousins...At least you get the opportunity of warm weather most of the year...!!!

Using the FOS instead of going through the courts to claim for my unlawful credit card charges... That is the reason for attempting to find out whether the debt that HFO purchased from Monument is also unlawful because it is based upon a figure that has been made up of unlawful charges... So if you know any solicitors that are willing to have a go at a test case then lets get it on...!!!

Hey Ell-enn... Funny habit I have got into over the past few years...Even when sending stuff to me Ma... The power of the RECORDED DELIVERY letter...!!! The other funny thing is over that time period the amount of money the Royal Mail must have wasted in re-designing the forms...He He He...No wonder they are in trouble...

Well just posted the correspondence to the FOS and HFO...So lets see what the net brings in... Will keep you informed...8-) Believe me when I say I am looking forward to the sunshine...Having assessed what this Government has done over the past few months my prediction is that in due course the greed that got us into this mess will be used to get us out of this mess so the sooner we emigrate to sunnier climes the better... Not sure whether the Bahamas, OZ, Monaco/Monte Carlo or Spain either way the cost of living and the work life balance will be far better in one of those beautiful places than here in Bleak Olde Blighty...8-) See ya on the beach...:grin:

The original debt was for just over £800 and with all the added interest and charges (which I am in the process of claiming back, hence my original question) HFO have bumped it upto just over £2200 and with the alleged fees that Mrs Rotweiller was shouting about it could reach close to £3000... Yippeeeeee...I would love to be a fly on the wall tomorrow morning when Mrs R gets the letter I am sending to HFO just to see her face would be really fun...:grin: Thanks for the advice regarding the signature nice little touch...I haven't signed the letter with my normal signature, just a swiggle, yet I have left my name in text is this something you would recommend or shall I remove this as well...???;-)

Hey Davey77... Thanks for those links couldn't have come at a better time...Just as I was reading your link the phone went and it was the Rotweiller from last week telling me that I hadn't got back to her and that she was now going to start filling in the paperwork for the court... I just kept saying I am in the process of sending you a letter...Which kept falling on deaf ears...Eventually I said I am sending you a letter in the post I have nothing else to say thank you very much and put the phone down... WOW that felt GREAT...!!! So I will being sending the unsigned letter today by recorded first class post yet I am still bemused to what benefit this will actually give me...My understanding is that if they don't respond with the signed copy of my original agreement within 14 days they are unable to pursue me for the money that is alleged to be owed to them... Am I correct in thinking this, also what happens in the mean time of Mrs Rotweiller sending in court forms and me receiving those in the post...??? Thanks Davey77 I really appreciate your help...Must admit it's things like this that made me think about switching my degree and studying law to be able to help people like you and I...:grin: TTFN...

Hey Guys... Thanks for the replies... Not wanting to sound like a dumb ass yet am I asking HFO or Monument for the CCA...??? Any ideas/suggestions surrounding what to actually put in a letter to make sure I am covering myself...??? Could you either explain or send me to somewhere I could research this particular element of the CCA so I get a better understanding of how this 12+2/30 days your discussing actually works... I have come across a number of different Acts over the years yet never heard of this one... Boy I am getting excited again...Power to the People...!!! Thanks again Guys you have been a REAL help...

Hey Ross-Co... Thanks for the reply... Not as yet...My thinking surrounding this issue is that if the original debt to Monument was made up of unlawful charges then the debt they sold to HFO is going to be a debt made up with unlawful charges. So in turn the HFO debt is fundamentally based upon an incorrect figure... I have been servicing this debt for quite sometime now and have had no real issues apart from every now and again when some one who can hardly speak English contacts me asking for more money... I contacted the CCCS yesterday and the guy I spoke to had never heard of this type of situation before and after speaking with one of his colleagues he seemed to think in theory that I was correct in what I was saying YET whether that would hold up in a court of law is something he was unsure of...TEST CASE TEST CASE RAH RAH RAH...!!! I have been in the process of claiming the charges back over the past year or so yet stupidly placed it on hold because of mistaking the bank and credit card charges to be the same thing where obviously they are not, so after yesterday I have started the process going through the Financial Ombudsman... So what is the point of asking to see the agreement...??? Thanks agian for the reply I really appreciate it...

Hey Guys... Need some help and advice regarding a credit card situation... Once upon a time I used to have a credit card with Monument. When my youngest daughter came into the world 16 weeks premature and weighing 1lb 8oz I made the decision rather than running around doing 80-90 hours a week working for myself I would stay at home and look after my family... Obviously this decision had a knock on affect with the family finances, yet at the time we thought we would be able to cope... With a number of creditors and CCJ's to my name I have now come across Monument/HFO/Turnbull Rutherford... I have been paying HFO for over a year now with no issues, admittedly the £5 a month I am paying them is not a lot yet with the circumstances I have been in and where I am now I am in no real position to pay them anymore than this... Over the past few weeks HFO have been incessant in the phone calls 0845 numbers up the ying yang, then one evening 2 weeks ago they caught me off guard with a mobile number. I then spent the next hour an a half on the phone with a young lady that I spoke to nearly a year ago, although she denied it, attempting to force me into arranging a new payment plan... Telling me a number of stories regarding her company looking at accounts that could be stopped from going further into legal proceedings. Long story short she was attempting to get me to part with some rather private information and when she got to asking for my NI number I drew the line there... Next thing she was telling me that she would have to speak to her superiors to see if they would accept my current proposal so she could stop further charges being brought to the account and to also stop the account from going further down the legal route... My arguement throughout all of this has been regarding the unlawful charges placed on the account by Monument. If the balance on the account was say £100 and over a period of time they kept adding interest and charges the account got to £200 then Monument sold the debt to HFO and they claim the debt is sitting at £220 then over a period of time they keep adding 12% interest and bump the outstanding balance upto £275 and this is what they are attempting to get from me YET if the original balance of £100 was made up of unlawful charges surely the debt they sold to HFO is also unlawful...??? I have had a frustrating phone call with Turnbull and Blagger this afternoon which has put me in a very emotional frame of mind purely from the frustration of not being listened to from the olde lady on the other end of the phone... She has now threatened me with County Court proceedings if I do not respond to her by 20.00hrs this evening... I am sick and tired of people like this intimidating us consumers and want to defend my corner with a creative grace...So if anyone knows of any legal way around this so I can send a letter to Mrs Rottweiller then please can you help... Many thanks I really appreciate it...