For the record on Dell PC's. I used to work for CCTV company who regularly purchased Dell PC's to work as digital recording viewers. Unfortunately the decision to use them was based on the MD getting a free (albeit very nice) desktop for his home. The reliability of the machines where generally pretty good, but then most computers are. With the exception of Time computers (I am convinced these guys only purchased known faulty stuff that would fail after a year or so - always the caps on the motherboard) I have yet to meet a computer brand that isn't pretty reliable. But then as this forums is all about, its not that. It' customer service. Now Dells customer service is frankly the worse out of any computer manufacturer I'd had to deal with. I'll give my favourite short story on them below (it was a year ago now so pinch of salt with the quotes, but its the gist thats important). I'm an MCSE, had many years working in the industry. We had over 300 machines in the field and every single one had a 3 yr ON SITE warranty. So the demo machine in the showroom goes. It clearly the motherboard at fault as the computer would not POST (for those who don't know the POST is complete when the computer makes the BEEP. If a computer doesn't POST, you know its really screwed up) So I call Dell.... The phone is picked up straight away, although my a machine. I work my way through the various menus (10 minutes to get through them - on the business support number). Another 20 minutes holding... then the phones picked up. D: "Hi Dell how may I help you?" Me: "Hi I have a computer which has a fault motherboard. I'd like to return it to be repaired please." D: "I'm afraid we have to go through some procedures first." Me: "Oh ok..." .... they ask me the serial number and a few other bits.... D: "Ok can you look at the back of your machine and tell me what lights are lit up on the ABCD panel (I forget what they actually call it)" Me: Gives the ones lit up D: "Ok that is a fault with your power lead." Me: "Power lead?" D: "Yes can you replace it for me with another one." Me: "Umm, ok." - grab another one out of the cupboard and set it up. Me: "Nope same problem." D: "Ok well its definately the power cord, can you change it for another one?" So by this point I'd been through 10 minutes of phone menus, 20 minutes of holding, and 15 minutes talking to "technical support". I actually did have a job to do and there was no way on earth it could have been the power cord. To this day it shocks me that they said it was.... Me: "Ok, I have been doing this job for years and there is no way that the power cord is at fault. If the power cord was at fault the computer would not turn on at all" D: "Well Sir, it must be. The light combination indicates the power cord is at fault. Can you change it for another one?" Me: "Ok, but this will not make any difference." - change for another power cord. Me: "Nope still nothing. It really is the motherboard. I just want to return the computer for repair under the warranty which is still valid." D: "I am afraid I cannot issue a returns number until we have attempted to solve the problem." Me: "Clearly as the computer doesn't POST there is not going to be a solution over the phone. The motherboard is faulty. You keep telling me to change the power cord which is not going to solve this." D: "We must go through the full procedure." Me: "Ok, we've ordered over 300 computers from you in the last 6 months. Everyone has an on-site call out warranty. This computer does not work, so I would like an engineer to come to site to address the issue." D: "I'm afraid I cannot do that." Me: "Ok well I want a returns number so that I can send this fault computer back to you for repair under warranty. I do not mind, but I am not spending my time replacing power cables as I have other things I need to do." D: "I'm afraid I cannot issue a returns number." Me: "Ok, can I speak to a manager please." D: "Cetainly Sir..." - bit of a wait. No more than a few minutes tho. D: "Hello, xxxx speaking how can I help you?" I explain the situation and at the end say something along the lines of: Me: "... and as they all have a valid on-site warranty I would like this computer fixed. Changing the power cord is not going to solve the situation and after 45 minutes on the phone I have a job to do. Can you please issue me with a returns number so I can return the unit for you for repair." D: "Yes Sir. I will get the customer service representative to do that for you now." Me: "Thanks" ..... and we get somewhere! I always hated ringing Dell. It was always the same story - a complete uphill battle to get anything out of them. But we did draw up this list of things to help us at our company. 1) We never purchased the on site warranty again. Considering the difficulty in getting a returns number we estimated that the chance of ever getting a Dell Engineer out was probably zero. 2) We never spoke to anyone who answered the phone on the technical support line. We immediately asked to talk to a manager - technical support people do not seem to be able to give a returns number - and certainly not without asking questions which sometimes border on the ridiculous. 3) Even if you know what the problem is, there is no point in explaining it. We found it was far more effective to say simply it didn't not work at all. It seems that a computer that does not work at all is more likely to be accepted for return. I am guessing because apart from "Is it plugged in?" there is not much they can ask. Hope this helps someone! And a great site... I am just about to start trying to recover my bank charges and you can be sure that if I do, a nice donation for books and to keep this great resource up will be coming you way! Thanks guys. (clearly wrong topic! Sorry - can someone with power move it? =) )