The general concensus of opinion seems to be that you did behave inappropriatly.

my mother used to give chocolates to the receptionists at her GP surgery at christmas. i suppose that was inappropriate too. or are you just being sexist??? candidly, i think there are a lot of really sick people in the world. they want to control every aspect of our lives. and i, for one, refuse to be manipulated by them. i did absolutely nothing wrong. but if you think i did then you clearly have no idea of how these people are destroying the fabric of society. the concepts of truth, justice and fredom have very largely been completely subverted by large corporations and those that act in supporting their vested interests. and you would no doubt suppot that just because you can't see beyond your own indoctrination. in summary, thanks for all the well meaning and not so well meaning advice but i'm done here.

In your first post you told us that the relationship was purely platonic and you simply gave her a relationship at Christmas. It now turns out that you were giving her presents on multiple different occasions, and that you were having conversations in which you discussed things like "i'll miss you, don't forget me" and "come back to me, I'll look after you". It sounds to me like these conversations had sexual undertones.

i gave her a christmas present last christmas and the christmas 2 years prior to that. i've known her for well over 2 years and i was i'll the christmas 1 year prior to that with severe depression, so i couldn't give her a christmas present that year. and these were her words to me. and no i didn't take them as having any sexual undertones. she was very kind to me and that's the only reason i liked her and was willing to be friends with her. but people will always try to make more of things than is justified. and the accusations i've had thrown at me in this thread are not getting any better!!!

Sorry, but it sounds to me like your behaviour was inappropriate. I do not think it is appropriate to start giving gifts to a young checkout girl in a supermarket when you are much older than her. Giving a Christmas gift is pushing it and giving gifts on multiple different occasions is a no-no. I also think it is inappropriate to have conversations with sexual undertones.

well, that's your opinion. and as far as i'm concerned, a very misguided one too. when i was working i had lots of friends. but i lost all of them when i got wrongly dismissed. partly because i no longer live in that area and partly because my employer warned them off too. this check-out girl is 1 of only 2 friends i've made in the past 7 years. if there's a law against being a bit lonely, please let me know? otherwise, try not to jump to conclusions, especially ones that might be considered derogatory.

I know you didn't intend to do anything bad, but your behaviour sounds quite intimidating for a young checkout assistant. She could have just told you she was feeling uncomfortable, but she is young and naive so it is understandable that she went to her manager. The ban is harsh but I think it can be justified, the supermarket has a duty of care to its staff and even though you meant no harm the manager still has reasons to be concerned. I think you will just have to shop elsewhere in future and please do be careful how you treat young female members of staff.

again, you're jumping to conclusions. she would tell me when she was working so i could look for her and she would tell me that she enjoyed our conversations too. so, apart from the odd christmas present, all we ever did was talk to each other about the kind of things that anyone would talk to their friends about. candidly, i feel so traumatised by all of this that i no longer even make small talk with people. if you get slammed for being friendly perhaps it's better being unfriendly.

on a completely unrelated incident, a few years ago i was in town when i was approached by a school girl. she said she'd lost her purse and didn't have any money to get home. she wanted 20p for her bus fair. i gave her £1, just to be sure she had enough. and she went on her way. i don't even remember if she said thank you, she was in quite a hurry to get home. i've not seen her since and doubt i'd recognise her if i did. but this matter with the supermarket has made me wonder whether i'd bother doing the same again or just tell her that she wasn't my responsibility and to make her own way home and leave me alone!!! i take it that's the kind of world you're advocating here.

anyway, i think i've had enough of being doubted and slandered. if anyone has anything positive to contribute, fine. but i think this has been done to death now.

Im sorry but I can see where the OP is coming form to a certain extent but I would not try to fight this with the supermarket on medical or discrimination grounds.

let me assure you that i'm not currently thinking seriously of doing this. but it is potentially an interesting scenario.

and i've covered these questions already but i'll do it again, as this thread is getting quite long now. please forgive any minor inconsitencies that might arise.

Could I just ask the OP were you ever approched by the staff and either asked or politely told your attention was unwelcome?

i approached a member of staff about an unrelated matter. it was only then that they told me that the christmas present i'd give this chreck-out girl allegedly had been interpretted as too romantic and that this had caused her to complain to her management. i'm not really inclined to entirely believe this. i gave her a similar christmas present 2 years ago. no complaint then, i assume. i don't want to be too specific, but it might be helpful if i stated that both were CDs of music that i like and thought she might too.

Did the individual accept the gift and then after there shift finished report the harassment or was this reported immediatley?

this whole episode only really kicked off about a month after christmas. there was certainly no immediate reaction. when i asked her if she had liked the CD, she told me she hadn't had time to play it. perhaps that explains the delay. but i'm just guessing here.

i'll say this again. i genuinely thought we were friends. i've no idea why she couldn't have just said something to me rather than going to her management about this. if she'd just told me she didn't want to see me anymore i'd have respected her wishes. i never forced my attentions on her in any way. i just reciprocated her friendliness towards me. and in all our written communications i've always signed them 'very best wishes'. i can't think that's too romantic!!!

if people don't tell me the truth, that ought to be their problem not mine. and i said i mightn't go back because i'm still livid!!!

As you don't pick up on non-verbal communication is it even remotely possible you might've misconstrued the relationship you had with the check out girl?

i go by what people say to me. if they say things like "i'll miss you, don't forget me" and "come to me, i'll look after you", i would have personally thought that she liked me. as i've said i really thought we were friends. this all came out of a clear blue sky. i was really quite shocked. but i have to consider whether my medical condition has had something to do with it. i don't honestly know. it's just a possibility.

Is she perhaps younger and slightly naive?

yes she is younger than me. and perhaps younger means more naive too. but i didn't think so at the time.

Maybe she was being polite and the only way she could stop you giving her attention was by telling her manager?

candidly, i find this hard to believe. how hard is it to say, 'i'd rather not see you anymore', especially given what she'd previously told me??? the last conversation we had, i'd have said, was perfectly normal. for exavple, i often give her fruit to try as i eat a lot of fruit for medical reasons. and she told me that she liked the last kind of fruit i gave her. if she didn't like me, why would she eat the fruit??? i'd don't know. none of this makes any sense to me. i candidly think the supermarket may have treatened to sack her if she continued our friendship. but i'm only guessing here.

It's maddening for you to be barred but if you've had no reply from your letters, then any further communication from yourself will just reinforce their opinion that you're obsessive and therefore capable of harrassment.

i don't see why i should be denied an explanation for this supermarkets actions just because they can interpret things as it suites them to do. i want a coherent explanation not all these chinese whispers. i don't think that's being obsessive. and i don't think it indicates anything regarding potential harassment either. i still intend to write to their head office.

Sorry but I think I'd put it down to experience and take my business elsewhere x

i am shopping elsewhere. and i may not go back even if they did reverse ths bar. i think they've demonstrated their ability to be completely unreasonable. but that doesn't mean i want to accept being unreasonably restricted in my movements. for example, i have a physical disability and used to use their disabled toilet. that i no longer an option for me. and i used to meet another friend in their in store cafe. and use their photo booth too. there area lot of faciliies i can no longer use. it's not just about buying food.

i'm saying that i regularly get treated badly by people because they rely on NVC and they misinterpret mine. it's nothing to do with how i behave and everythng to do with how the interpret body language, etc.

and no, they won't have forgotten about this in a few weeks time. i'm very confident of that. the person i knew will still be working there.

there was no harassment and asperger's syndrome and PDD-NOS are both ASDs (autism spectrum disorders).

i guess it depends on whether one believe that they should have taken reasonable steps before reaching their decision. i know you'll say they don't have to. but this is where i think this is wrong. and as such, perhaps it should be challenged. that's the only way legal matters progress. if no one ever challenged anything nothing would ever change, for better or worse.

Nope. I can tell you now, you wont succeed if you try that angle.

i said take a pop. not win. i know a fair bit about disability discrimination. if they had any sense they'd simply claim they were unaware of my disability. but it might be fun trying.

If you feel that the world won't change, then your options become:

1) stick with the status quo, or

2) adapt your response to that unchanging world.

 

It appears you have decided for "Option 1"

i don't think you can draw any such conclusion. i tend to fight against the injustices in the world. but that doesn't mean that i don't recognise that much if not most of this is futile. where does that fit in with your analysis???

it does cross my mind that i could possibly take a pop at this supermarket on the basis of disability discrimination. but do i want to??? probably not, really.

NSC, one of the objectives of CBT is to give you 'coping strategies' to help recognise when situations are becoming 'dodgy'. I think you should take up the offer, clearly you do need some objectiveness in your life and this is a good tool (I've used CBT as I get chronic insomnia and it really does help with that).

 

Yes, there are some 'nasty people' in this world and if you let them take over your thoughts then 'they' have won.

 

Moving on and getting over the bad things that happen is all part of life.

this is diverging a lot from the purpose of this thread but c'est la vie.

as well as a genetic pre-disposition to depression, i most likely have a mild form of asperger's syndrome, the medical term for which is PDD-NOS (pervasive development disorder - not otherwise specified). i also have dysprxia. this cause me a number of difficulties, the most obvious of which in terms of social interaction are that i don't tend to pick up on NVC (non-verbal communication) and other people tend to take my lack of facial expression and rather monotonic voice as a sign of anger/hostility, which it isn't. i've suffered from depression for well over 30 years and i've been hospitalised because of it twice. i found out about the PDD-NOS about 7 years ago, when these problems caused another mental breakdown and my employer decided to discriminate against me by sacking me when i was fit for and capable of returning to work. over the years i've gained an enormous knowledge of psychology/psychiatry and i dutifully did a bit of digging on CBT. my opinion is that i doesn't address the problems i face because of the PDD-NOS. i'll be a little blunter than that. i thought it was little better than psychobabble. there is a real world out there. and this is what happens in the real world. live with it or die from it - it's not going to change any time soon!!! but thanks for the well meaning advice, even if i won't be taking it.

The police must have been given a reason for coming out, they dont just turn up unless called for a purpose,

i've described in some detail exactly what happened here. if they had been aware of why they'd been called they weren't telling me, even though i asked them. it was only when i mentiioned the conversation with the manager at the supermarket that i'd had many days previously that they latched onto the whole harassment issue. i wish now that i hadn't mentioned it to them as i now doubt they had any real reason whatsoever, other than playing 'messanger boy' for the supermarket.

However I really feel there is too much he said she said they said and allegedlys to ever fully understand what has happened here, so i wish the OP the best of luck and hope he gets the response that he wants from the store.

and isn't that exactly what's so frustrating about this whole situation. i'm none the wiser than you are. and it seems i may never know the truth of what's gone on here, even though it triggered quite a severe depressive relapse. i've been offered CBT in the past for my depression but i can't be bothered with it because the fact is that there are some really nasty people in the world. and no amount of therapy will fix that!!!

the first letter was addressed to the manager i spoke to. the second to the branch manager. neither stated or implied that i wished to have any further contact with this check-out girl. and if this store doesn't reply and tell me why they've behaved as they have they can hardly expect me to understand why i haven't heard from them. and as for seeing things from their POV. i can't say they've given much consideration for mine!!! my professional background is as an aerospace engineer. i know enough about hierarchial organisations to appreciate that their behaviour has been quite appalling. i'll write to their head office but i'm currently running very short on diplomacy.

Why are you so adamant about going back?

why don't you understand that i don't want to go back under the current circumstances. i want this rediculous bar reversed. i'm given to understand by the police that the supermarket will have a complaints procedure. so i've complained. i expect this complaint to be taken seriously not just ignored, as appears to be the case at present. surely, all of that is perfectly understandable???

Even if there was no OFFICIAL police complaint, the store management has made it perfectly clear that they dont want you to go to their store from now on.

no they haven't. all of this is chinese whispers (the legal term for which i believe is hearsay). the supermarket have allegedly told me what the check-out girl has said to them. the police have told me what the supermarket have allegedly said to them. not a word of this is first hand. it's extremely frustrating. and legally, i don't think i can rely on any of it really.

The only thing that will happen if you continue writing/conversing with them would be that the accusation will turn into proper harassment.

how on earth can i be accused of harassing the supermarket when it was the police that told me to lodge an offical complaint with them??? in writing to the supermarket, all i've done is follow their advice. this is just too bizarre.

However, Bankfodder gave you the best advice in this thread, so it would be wise to follow it. It would save a ton of stress and headache later on.

i'm not saying it isn't. but that doesn't mean i'm not deeply offended by this little episode. because i am. and just because there isn't currently any legal redress doesn't mean this is a moraly acceptable way for this supermarket to behave or that there won't come a time when this is legally as well as morally unacceptable either.

However, i dont think you are understanding that for the police to get involved, there must have been some form of evidence of harassment.

and i don't think you understand that the police had no idea why they'd been call originally until i disclosed to them what i've stated here. and i spoke to the officer involved at length about this a few days later and he couldn't offer any tangible exlanation even then. let alone actual evience!!! what have i stated here that constitutes actual harassment? nothing AFAIK. and i don't think i've left anything material out. if you disagree with me, please let me know?

I know it's not what you want to hear, and indeed you may feel ill treated. However, legally there is nothing you can do, and everything the shop can do to you.

life's a bitch and then you die - believe me, i do get the picture here!!!

In a few weeks, they may have forgotten all about it, but right now, it would be very wise not to tempt fate. Especially since the police have given you a warning about it. The last thing you want is to get a criminal record simply because you didnt agree with them.

i've already stated i've no intention of going anywhere near this supermarket under the current circumstances. and please note: i never said anthing about any warning. a warning is a formal matter. the police advised me that i had been barred from this supermarket (not their job at all IMO). AFAIK, advice isn't the same as a warning. however, to be absolutely sure i'll go and talk to the officer involved again.

Did you address it to the store manager?

i wrote to the manager i originally saw regarding the unrelated matter and i wrote to the store manager.

If so, go one step up and get the regional manager or head office.

i might do that but i'm beginning to wonder if i'm not just waisting my time. it seems that people all too readily jump to conclusions.

As for "dirty work", you are woefully misinformed. The police will only become involved if they have evidence of this harassment. They arent a body for hire. Somewhere along the line your actions have been interpreted as harassment.

the police told me they didn't know why they'd been called. that doesn't sound very evidential to me. nor does the fat the i'd not seen this check-out girl for a number of weeks prior to this. i sound very much like a pretext to me. and let's not forget that the last time i saw ths check-out girl, she seemed fine with me.

Send a letter to the head office, or the regional manager. If you don't get anywhere with them, then it might be time for you to find another shop for a while.

i',m already having to shop elsewhere. this was over 2 weeks ago, which is the time i've given them to respond to my 2 prior letters.

You also seem to be a bit obsessed with going back to this store.

as i've already stated, my inteest in this store is economic and dietary. but i do feel slighted by this barring and i would like it over-turned, whether or not i ever shop there again. arguably, anything one does could be viewed as obsessive. but that mean it is obsessive. i know far my about psychiatry than i do about legality. i suffer from depression and this hasn't helped with that one little bit (personal disclosure - try not to use it against me!!!).

Thats why there are tens of thousands of food shops. Just because that store is the closest doesnt mean you have ANY right to shop there.

that's not why there are thousands of food shops at all. AFAIK, there's no link whatsoever between the number of food shops and their right to bar people. if there is, please show me!!!

Now, as already advised, the best course of action for you to take now would be to write a well thought out letter to the store manager inquiring about what has happened.

as i stated in my first post of this thread: "accordingly, i have written to the supermarket twice by recorded delivery to complain about their conduct. i have not received any reply." ...

It would be very foolish for you to go back to the shop after the police had been involved before you had any discussions with management over the issue.

... and the reason that i've done this is because i've no intention of going back there under the current circumstance. candidly, i'm not expecting a reply. they seem to prefer using the police to do their dirty work for them.

i'm not going to argue semantics but food is a necessity. if no one would sell you food that would be very serious indeed.

and i'm not going to do anything to imply that i did anything wrong. i didn't.

the OP had gone shopping!!! i do still need to eat, after all. and please, no more implications that i'm in some way being economical with the truth to cover up something. i'm not. i had what i thought was a mutual friendship with this check-out girl. we even exchanged e-mail addrsses.

i only got any indication of there being a problem when i approach a manager there about an unrelated issue. i was then told about the complaint that the check-out girl had allegedly made against me (that the chistmas present was perceived as too romantic, though this wasn't my intention and i'd given her a similar present two years previously) and that i could have been barrred over this. i shopped there a few more days before being approached by the police after i had left the supermarket with my shopping. they didn't know what it was all about and teased out of me the issue with the girl. they then seemed to latch onto this and say it was because of harassment. but i have no first had knowledge of this. not least of all because i never saw the check-out girl again. all that happened in the interim was that i e-mailed her, as i said i would to the manager i saw, and asked for her side of this story. i've had no reply to that, from which i infer that it could well be true that she did complain about me. but beyond talking about things in general, as everyone does, i only ever asked her if she'd like to have a drink of tea or coffee with me some time. she always said she would but never seemed to have the time to do so. candidly, i think she must have been less than entirely honest with me, given this turn of events. and i personally find it deeply disturbing that shops can arbitarily bar people. they provide a public service, whether they care to admit this or not. as such, there ought to be some test of reasonableness applied. it shouldn't be that they can deny you a service for no reason whatsoever. and this doesn't personally feel to me like a reasonable reason. their staff shouldn't enter into such relationships if their employer doesn't like it. it shouldn't be for the consumer to be policing their policies, which seems to have been implied here.

i'm no longer interested in pursuing this friendship. i didn't say i was. my grievance is that i get barred from a supernarket that i depended on heavily because she complained about me to her management rather than telling me she had a problem with me herself. that's not a very adult way of behaving. nor is being barred from this supermarket without any opportunity to put my side of this story to anyone. it's just plain shabby and offensive. and i am offended. that's why i haven't simply let it drop, yet.

yes, i am being economical with the truth: i'm not telling you the name of the supermarket and i'm not telling you the name of the check-out girl either, though i could do. i'm a little awestruck that if you strike up a friendship with someone who works somewhere you risk not being allowed to shop there again. and i'm also a little awestruck that one doesn't have to do anything criminally or civilly wrong to be treated this way too. i didn't force my attentions on her. she made it quite clear to me that she wanted to get to know me. if she had told me she'd changed her mind, i could accept that. but to be treated like some sort of criminal is just plain offensive. and yes, this was a significant source of food for me, which i relied on heavily both economically and in terms of diet.

a couple of years ago i struck up a friendship (purely platonic) with a check-out girl at my local supermarket. this year i was told that she had complained about me to her management because i gave her a small present at christmas (i have done this in previous years without any such problem). i was told that she interpretted this as a romantic gesture, though she has never said anything to me about it. i had not had the oportunity to ask her about this when i was told by the police that they had been contacted by the supermarket and that i have been barred from shopping there because of harassment. given that i felt this friendship was mutual and that i was never given any indication by her that she was in any way unhappy with me, i feel i have been treated very unreasonably by this supermarket. accordingly, i have written to the supermarket twice by recorded delivery to complain about their conduct. i have not received any reply. now feel i need to take this to a solicitor in order to get a response from this supermarket. and i really need to do this on a no win no fee basis as i cannot justify any significant expense. i am not looking for any compensation per se. i just want this unreasonable decision reversed. any advice would be gratefully received.