My apologies to Rob/Mike and anyone else that might be following this thread. I've just moved house and started a new job, so things are a bit hectic. I will try and pen a follow up letter this weekend.

 

I also have heard nothing back. This one will set a timescale before action and will need to be sent recorded.

 

We could also consider reporting the issue to the Civil Aviation Authority, as they have not even responded regarding our refunds..? Which should be pretty clear cut..

 

Cheers, Tim

Hi Rob,

 

I sent one near enough identical to what I posted above: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/show-post/post-1646746.html

 

I will email you copy in Word format so your daughter can edit it and print it..

 

T

Of course, this can be brought into the "negotiations" with BMI if their response to your next letter is not favourable.

 

I like that thought. I'm almost excited about drafting a response to their stock 'get lost' letter.

Mikee,

 

Thanks again for your input. I've been away from my computer for a day or so! I will put letters in post today with suggested amendments.

 

With regards to accommodation, everyone 'slept' on the airport floor. I read something on flightmole saying, if you sleep on the airport floor then you've squandered your opportunity for an expenses-paid trip to the Hilton and you can't go after that money retrospectively! If only we'd known our rights eh!

 

It was a very difficult (impossible?) night to get accommodation in Madrid anyway, as it was a national holiday and people had flocked to the city. BMI didn't use this excuse though. They were silent on the matter.

 

Tim

OK, back again. Apologies for my consistently-lengthy and now back-to-back posts.

 

The text of the letter I'm planning to send is below:

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I am writing regarding the cancellation of my flight from Madrid to Manchester (WW3584) on 25th July 2008.

 

Passengers were notified of this cancellation several hours after the flight was due to depart, having previously been advised of an ongoing delay due to a technical fault. No other aircraft was available to operate the service and therefore I was forced to take an alternative flight to Liverpool.

 

I eventually arrived in Manchester at 09:00, 13 hours behind schedule. This was at significant extra cost and inconvenience to myself.

 

Under EU Regulation 261/2004, I am entitled to claim compensation for the inconvenience and costs associated with the cancellation of my flight. As the flight was up to 1500km in length and my delay to destination was more than two hours, I request that BMI Baby compensate me the sum of €250, as laid down in EU Regulation 261/2004.

 

In addition, I require a full refund of €100.20 for the two tickets I purchased, including the taxes and duties, to which I am entitled. Should you wish to charge administration costs for this refund, I would also request that you issue me with a breakdown of how this cost is derived. This should include stationery, postage and minutes of staff time used in processing the request.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

T xxx

There are two aspects of it that I would appreciate some input on:

 

Firstly, am I pushing my luck with the admin fee thing in the final paragraph? I intend to argue that they're excessive and unlawful, bank charge style.

 

Secondly, I'm a bit unsure how to structure my 'attack'! I'm going to take this job on for the 3 of us who traveled together. I bought 2 of the tickets on my card and the other fella bought his own.

 

I'm thinking of sending the letter above, another one signed by the guy who's ticket I bought, just asking for the 250 compensation and a further letter from the other chap asking for his refund and compensation.

 

Does that seem logical, or should I ask for 500 compensation in this letter, or even lump all 3 together?

 

Many thanks, all...

 

Tim

Whilst this may seem draconian to some, we have always resisted the use of PMs to exchange information of this nature.

 

Point taken.

 

Actually, I fully intend to post the letters I send to BMI in this thread (hopefully with Mikee's permission, assuming I use any of his text). I'll also be posting a synopsis of any responses I get, and look forward to the input of those more experienced CAG forum users!

 

I just didn't want to publish my email address and thought Mike might find it easier to send a collection of pdfs or Word docs.

 

Anyway, while I'm at it, one of the issues Mike mentioned to me via PM is the level of information given to us at the time and BMI giving their own interpretation of EC 241/2004 rather than the text of the regulation itself.

 

I thought they might have covered themselves reasonably well on that front but maybe not! They handed us this on their headed paper:

 

Dear Passenger,

 

We deeply regret that your flight has been cancelled.

 

Rest assured that we have taken all possible measures to minimise this inconvenience.

 

All cancellations for reasons of extra-ordinary circumstances such as meteorological conditions, flight security reisks, unexpected flight safety shortcommings, strikes, political instability or air traffic management decisions are exempt of compensation payments.

 

We will do our upmost to transport you to your destination as soon as is practically possible.

 

Nevertheless you are free to change your travel plans; either

 

- you have 7 days to rebook for travel within 21 days subject to availability, or

 

- you can choose to cancel your reservation.

 

To change your reservation please contact........blah

Of course, we were then just thrown out of the airport with not a BMI Baby representative in sight!

 

I'll draft a letter today and post it in this thread later. On Mike's advice, I'm initially going to simply ask for my compensation without listing their miryad of failures. I'll come back to the thread with their defence.

 

Thanks all,

 

Tim

Again, many thanks Mike.

 

See private message for email address.

 

Cheers,

T

Hi Mike,

 

Very encouraging story, thanks for that! I'll see what I can manage.

 

If you fancy passing on any of the letters you sent, I'd be very interested and most grateful!

 

Cheers,

 

Tim

I'm glad that worked out reasonably for your daughter Rob! I'm not surprised she was skint - drinks were not cheap at that festival!

 

I've not written to BMI yet, but when I do I'll be arguing the case for compensation. I had my wallet pinched in Madrid, so our flights were all booked by a mate back home. I hope that doesn't get in the way!

 

I wonder if you knowing about the cancellation by 8.30 detracts any from the idea that this was an 'unexpected' safety shortcoming. Certainly makes it more of an annoyance!

 

Tim

Thanks Martin.

 

I just came across this page - www . caa . co . uk /default.aspx?catid=306&pagetype=90&pageid=9367

 

...which defines 'extra ordinary' circumstances in line with how BMI Baby do. I imagine compensation might become difficult, as they will say our technical fault falls under 'unexpected flight safety shortcomings'..?

 

(It seems to me that these 'extra-ordinary' circumstances cover just about all the ordinary cases in which a flight might be cancelled. I'd argue it's up to them to keep their aircraft in good repair!)

 

Of interest are the entitlements towards the bottom of that page, though.

 

We were offered a sandwich and a drink in the 5 or so hours up to them admitting the flight was cancelled. During that time, a lot of people had already spent a fair amount on overpriced food.

 

We were also offered no accommodation or transfers. (Older folks and children sleeping on the airport floor - delightful.)

 

If we chose to reschedule with BMI, we would be there until Sunday night (in the very best case!). In this case, the provision would be woefully inadequate.

 

We were also not offered (but we did not ask for) phone calls. We probably spent about 10 quid trying to get the Ryanair flights booked.

Hi all, the CAG isn't new to me, but I'm new to the forum.

 

I'm pretty irate about how BMI Baby treated myself and fellow passengers last night and could use some advice, please!

 

Our flight was scheduled to leave at 18:25 last night, we were told it was delayed for several hours and they finally admitted that it would not be flying at about 10 or 11pm.

 

There was no offer of accommodation or help with finding alternative flights. We were told there was no BMI flight until Monday morning (though, looking at their timetable, it looks like they fly Sunday night too) and hurried out of the building by airport staff.

 

I can only imagine (hope?) a full refund for the flight will be forthcoming but I am interested in pursuing them for some compensation. We ended up booking a flight, through Ryanair, to Liverpool at the cost of another 80 quid. Others booking onto the same flight half an hour later were paying upwards of £300. It seems only fair to me that we are reimbursed!

 

Anyway.. here is the relevant section from the T/C's:

 

9.2 CANCELLATION, REROUTING, DELAYS, ETC.

 

 

9.2.1 We will take all necessary measures to avoid delay in carrying you and your baggage. In the exercise of these measures and in order to prevent a flight cancellation, in exceptional circumstances we may arrange for a flight to be operated on our behalf by an alternative carrier and/or aircraft.

 

 

9.2.2 Except as otherwise provided by the Convention, if we cancel a flight, fail to operate a flight reasonably according to the schedule or, fail to stop at your destination, we shall, at your option, either:

 

 

9.2.2.1 carry you at the earliest opportunity on another of our scheduled services on which space is available without additional charge and, where necessary, extend the validity of your Ticket; or

 

 

9.2.2.2 within a reasonable period of time re-route you to the destination shown on your Ticket or an alternative destination acceptable to you by our own services without additional charge.; or

 

 

9.2.2.3 make a refund in accordance with the provisions of Article 10.2.

 

 

9.2.3 Upon the occurrence of any of the events set out in Article 9.2.2, except as otherwise provided by the Convention, the options outlined in Article 9.2.2.1 through 9.2.2.3 are the sole and exclusive remedies available to you and we shall have no further liability to you.

 

 

9.2.4 If we are unable to provide previously confirmed space, we shall provide compensation to those Passengers denied boarding in accordance with applicable law and our denied boarding compensation policy.

 

 

Details of our denied boarding policy can be obtained at the check-in desk.

9.2.3 sounds pretty grim, I know.

 

The bit I've highlighted, I'm unsure if it's relevant and, if so, what it means? If anyone can shed any light on that, I'd much appreciate it!

 

Looking at the Civil Aviation Authoritiy's website, I've got this:

 

Financial compensation is due unless you were informed 14 days before the flight, or you were rerouted close to your original times, or the airline can prove that the cancellation was caused by extraordinary circumstances.

However, in the airport we were handed a sheet of paper listing their definitions of extraordinary circumstances. Those being; "meteorological conditions, flight security risks, unexpected flight safety shortcomings, strikes, political instability, or air traffic management decisions".

 

We were told that it was a technical fault with the aircraft and I'm concerned that this falls under "unexpected safety shortcomings". I don't think it was as extra-ordinary all that!

 

It only gives us the option to rebook (within 7 days for travel within 21 days) or cancel, but I think trying to book 100 people onto the next available flight on Sunday night would have been a pretty unreasonable suggestion!!

 

Anyone got any thoughts?!

 

Cheers,

 

Tim

(Apologies for the heavy reading!)