Can anyone advise please?

Recently my fiance and I split up, and I have been left to deal with the matter of the hotel costs. I wrote to the hotel asking for a copy of the contract and the amount I had to pay, as I couldn't remember ever signing a contract.

They have written back to me today with a form that I had filled in, with my fiance's name and the date of our wedding. It had not been signed. They also sent me a copy of their terms and conditions, and the outline of how much our wedding was expected to cost based on the expected numbers etc.

Nowhere in this documentation have I signed anything to agree to any of this.

Is there a way to get round paying?

Cheers x

The Council always have the debt - the bailiffs are only appointed as the Councils collector. To find out your account number you do need to speak to the Council - don't tell them what you want it for - explain you are trying to track down records.

 

PT

Didn't see this one before my last post, sorry! Okay so the best course of action now is to find out the account number, and just start paying online, as much as we can afford?

The Bailiff may be saying that but I assume you have spoken in a similar vein to the Council and this is a typical response. However once the Bailiff does do this then the Council will take further steps.

 

Further steps may include any or all of the following:

1. Back to Court for a Committal hearing - where you can be made to explain why no money has been paid - at this stage it will probably do no good to say you never received any paperwork. Most likely outcome will be the Court deciding on level of payment - but and I stress but a term of imprisonment is another option - very rarely done.

2. Attachment of Earnings against any wages/salary you or partner have.

3. Deduction direct from Benefits - obviously you have to be laiming some Benefits for this to happen.

4. Charging Order - if you own your home this could be done and yes in rare cases they can force you to sell.

5. Bankruptcy - another rare possibility and the debt does not get written off.

 

It is in your own interests to start talking to the Council - if the Revenues department won't speak to you or just refer you to the Bailiffs you need to get on to your local Councillor for help.

 

PT

Can I just clarify, are you saying that even though the council have said that they won't take the debt back if the bailiff tries to give it, they are lying and they actually will?

Clearly, she 'bumped' into that rare beastie - a council worker that appreciates their guidelines ... I also posted the same qoute in your original thread for your friends benefit. I reasonably presumed you would have mentioned it to her...

 

Department for Constitutional Affairs - Enforcement - National Standards for Enforcement Agents

 

Those who might be considered vulnerable include the following:

the elderly;

people with a disability;

the seriously ill;

the recently bereaved;

single parent families;

pregnant women;

unemployed people; and,

those who have obvious difficulty in understanding, speaking or reading English.

I did tell her - but as she wasn't pregnant when the debt occurred, it wasn't really relevant.

the bailiff will eventually return the debt back to the council as Nulla bona( no property to seize ) if they cant get a walking possession agreement or payment from you

how long this will take will depend on the agreement the council has with the bailiff company

some councils will take the debt back depending on the debtors circumstances some wont

That's what the bailiffs said they were doing, but the council have disagreed and said they wouldn't take it back off the bailiffs so I don't know what's going on now!

Right, in that case different circumstances so possibly needs slightly different advice. If you have had no prior notification from the Council you need to check exactly who and where any letters were being sent to, you should also be able to find out when the Liability Order was made and in whose name and how much it was for.

 

I can't remember the exact wording but I know someone else will have it whereby they have to notify of their intentions prior to taking action and if you can prove you did not get this then it would appear that the Council's actions and therefore the subsequent actions of the Bailiff are invalid. However if that is the case you need to be aware that the Council may still insist the CT is paid in full before the end of the financial year - 31 March.

 

PT

I don't see how we'd be able to prove anything? There's no other address that letters would have been sent to, we just know we didn't receive any!

arctic, I don't think anybody thinks you're stupid! Crikey, the vast majority of us here have been in the same boat. It's no worries.

I think you'll find everyone is right. The council will usually refuse to accept payment if you take it in to them. But often cannot refuse online payments. This is how people get around that. The bailiff will eventually return the case to the council if they have been unable to levy.

Your friends case was very different due to her pregnancy. The National Standards for Enforcement Agents give clear advice on this. Whilst not law, in your friends case the bailiffs / council adhered to it.

Is there anything in your circumstances that may be usefull if the bailiff hangs onto the case?

Best wishes.

Rae.

I'm sorry, I may be being stupid but I don't really understand how the pregnancy makes any difference? Sure, the council people may have been nicer to her when she went in because she had a huge bump but I don't understand what bearing it has legally, it was never brought up or mentioned. The circumstances are exactly the same - both people forgot to set up the DD, and didn't remember anything about it until hearing from bailiffs!

the council cannot refuse online payments - as again - ignore the bailiffs when they come to the door but i cannot recall anyonw who would say do not pay anything at all to the council.

 

if you can provide a link to a thread that states this , please

 

no one is saying you are stupid and noone would

 

can you tell us now exactly what the situaiton is now

 

ida x

They might not be able to refuse them, no - but they'd be going into the middle of nowhere if the council don't have the debt anymore! I don't even know if it's possible to pay them online if the account isn't with them anymore, surely you would need a reference number of some sort?

Sorry but I am confused here, in the original thread at the end of last year the debt was for £311, now it has got to £1300? I think we need to start at the very beginning.

 

PT

Different debt, different person. The old thread was regarding a friend that I used to live with. This is my partner, who I have just found out forgot to sort the council tax out when I moved in last April. He received no letters from the council to remind him, forgot all about it until we received a visit from Phillips!

I have mentioned the other thread because the situation was exactly the same, she forgot to set up the direct debit for the council tax too.

(Please can people refrain from implying I'm stupid, not directing this at you, but it's a little irritating when it's not me who forgot to set up anything, I presumed it was being paid!)

you were advised to ignore the bailiffs when they came to the door but were advised you can make you payments direct to the council etc

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs-sheriff-officers/238154-bailiffs.html

 

no one said not to pay at all.

 

can you work out what you can afford to pay each week/month?

This is what we did! But the council won't take payments, understandably, because the account isn't with them anymore. The threads I read said that eventually the bailiffs will pass it back to the council if they are ignored - I must have read this 50 times so please don't tell me it's not been said!

In other threads I have read it has said to ignore the bailiffs as they will give it back to the council, I was also advised this by several people in a previous thread I wrote. We simply cannot afford to just give the bailiffs £1300, which is what they want. I followed the advice to ignore the bailiffs and contact the council, only to be told by the council that they won't take the debt back - which is not what was said on here, nor what happened to my friend in the other instance - they took it back for her!

The bailiffs letter clearly stated they were going to give the debt back to the council, but they are flatly denying this.

Looks like our only option is to magic £1300 from somewhere then.

Just read these replies - I must say that I am quite annoyed that when we first heard from the bailiffs we followed advice from this forum to ignore them and wait until they passed it back to the council, and you're now basically saying that we're idiots for doing so!

My other half rang the council today and they said they wouldn't be taking the debt back, so I suppose we'll have to deal direct with the bailiffs after all?

Hi, I came on here not long ago and received some good advice so I'm hoping you can help me again!

My partner forgot to set up a direct debit for the council tax at the start of the year (thankfully also forgot to tell them I'd moved in!) and he didn't remember until a bailiff called round. We ignored the bailiffs and decided to wait until the debt was passed back to the council.

A letter has come today that says this -

'We write to inform you a report is currently being processed to return your case to our client recommending the following -

An application being made to the Magistrates Court for your committal to prison on the grounds of: willful refusal to pay and/or culpable neglect'

Eeeek! They're not just gonna throw him in prison are they surely?! I've said perhaps what he needs to do is ring the council first thing Monday morning and say that he's received this letter and that he wants to set up a direct debit there and then, and that he only ignored the bailiffs as they were asking for extortionate amounts.

Any advice greatly appreciated! x

Just to keep this updated, according to the council no tax was ever paid for the period that my friend and I lived together. According to her, it was. She has been to the bank and they've requested her old statements, which she will get on Friday. Fingers crossed she's right and they've messed up!

Lol, HCE, yes! Agree with the first sentence but not the rest

Arctic, you haven't said anything about yourself or your friend. So, should it be applicable, here is the list of vulnerable groups from the National Guidelines for Bailiffs...

 

Those who might be considered vulnerable include the following:

the elderly;

people with a disability;

the seriously ill;

the recently bereaved;

single parent families;

pregnant women;

unemployed people; and,

those who have obvious difficulty in understanding, speaking or reading English.

 

Rae.

My friend is 8 months pregnant. I don't come anywhere on that list! What does that mean though? What difference does it make to the bailiffs if you're considered vulnerable?

Unfortunatley you are both joint and severally liable. Everybody will disagree, but I would advise you contact the Bailiff and make an arrangement to pay over 3 months or so.

We have tried to contact the bailiffs and they don't pick up the phone. I sat on hold for half an hour yesterday, supposedly first in the queue the whole time. We also tried the automated service to set up a payment plan and it wasn't accepted.

I read a lot on this site last night and have advised my friend to deal with council directly, however hopefully she can get printed bank statements to prove that she did pay it anyway. This is the first we've heard about apparently not paying the council tax at this address, and this is from Sept 2006 - March 2007. Seems a bit odd they've suddenly decided we owe them money.

Your friend is under no obligation to tell them where you live.

 

PT

I'm sure she wouldn't anyway. I'm just hoping she's able to get proof from the bank that she did pay the council tax and this is their mistake. She's not sure she will because it's an old bank account and she doesn't have any details for it anymore.

one of the site team will move your post to the bailiffs form

 

in the meantime neither of you should let the bailiff into your house

just because the letter says they will come on Wednesday don't take this as it will be Wednesday be on your guard NOW

this applies to both of you

keep all windows and doors locked if you have car park it (if you do is it on finance) well away from the house and i mean well away not in the next street

I've not heard anything at my house so I don't know whether they've not bothered to track me down yet, as she still lives in the town where this debt was incurred and I've moved. I have a car, which isn't on finance, but she doesn't. She doesn't really have anything of value tbh, so they'd probably soon come knocking at my door if they didn't get the debt from hers! Thankfully we live 3 storeys up in a flat, and we have a buzzer system so I wouldn't be letting anyone in I didn't know anyway.

Firstly, if the bailiff does visit the house, DO NOT ANSWER THE DOOR, DO NOT SPEAK TO THEM.

Secondly, do you agree that you owe the money ? if so, and you can pay them anything now, then pay online a.s.a.p. Then you can contact the council, tell them you've paid some and that you will continue to pay online until the debt is cleared. They might get shi**y with you and say it's with the bailiff, but just insist that you pay them direct, and that you dont want to deal with the bailiff. Hold your ground, they cant refuse as long as you pay.

Thanks! Well, my friend is stating that she never missed a payment while we were living at that address, but I'll be honest I don't know whether I believe her. She has said she's going to see if she can get bank statements so we shall have to see what she comes up with.

I spoke to the council this morning and they said there's nothing they can do about the debt as it's already with the bailiffs.

I have been advised to visit this website by a friend so I hope someone can help me! My friend received a letter on Saturday (addressed to both of us, we used to live together) from a bailiff - Philips. It states we owe £311 in council tax arrears which needs to be paid by Wednesday or a bailiff will be calling at her house.

Neither of us has £311. When we lived together I paid her every month my share, and as far as I knew, she was paying the bills with it. Unfortunately, that's not going to make any difference to the law! We have both tried ringing Philips, but are unable to speak to anyone. I sat on hold for half an hour this morning, supposedly the first in the queue the whole time.

I'm just wondering if anyone can give any advice on anything we can do? There's no way we can get this money by Wed, and if they do come out to her house, we're going to get charged for the priviledge of that as well!

Thanks x