The CCJ was registered on 10 July 2014 and cleared in full shortly thereafter. I have the letter from the court showing a CCJ was entered but it was removed on payment within the 14 days. This is what I don't understand. How can the new solicitors threaten to go to Court on a debt the court has already ruled upon.

A debt that has already been adjudicated cannot be retried. The old amount claimed was approx £3700 and you paid off £1500 of that amount.

You need to ascertain what the £4500 debt is for - could it be the new management fee of £1900 plus the balance of the old debt approx £1200?

I would write to the court that judgement was made already and give the case number.

UPDATE: I went to court and the PCOL case was dismissed by the judge as the LL was not named as the claimant. The judge told the claimant that if they want to sue for any money, then they should file a small claims case.

I rented a large two bedroom flat that took three hours for the checkout agent to do his report. He was very thorough and opened every cupboard and drawer and made note of everything! Every crack, every scratch, everything! I would say that if your agent was as diligent as the agent who came to check me out, then I can conceivably see a four bedroom property taking five hours.

Fair enough, but I would suggest that the amount on the MCOL form is just the deposit that has to be returned, and the non protection is there as an addition to the main claim.

 

So in this case the claim amount is for the return of £260 plus the non protection of deposit.

 

This still relies on the judge of the day's interpretation of the law as to whether he/she will hear the non protection part, or the op has to go through the other route.

I'm gearing up to sue my landlord for my deposit return and a few other issues and I've been advised to put the amount on the form of three times plus the deposit plus the other issues. Hope the judge doesn't separate the claim.

Just an update for anyone who is still interested in following my saga!

Today was D-day for court as my landlord served a Section 8 under the usual grounds for the rent.

The case was adjourned as the judge had not received my defense.

I have been given seven days to resubmit my defense and then the landlord has a further fourteen days for replying to my defense.

What surprised me most though was that the duty solicitor in the court asked me for the deposit certificate!

When I told him that my deposit was not protected, he practically started dancing and said he would request the judge offset the arrears by using the amount of the award for non-protection. Obviously that wasn't a strategy for me as I do not have any arrears.

It seems as if now non-protection of deposit can be used to defend a Section 8 hearing!?

Any experience of this anyone?

You cannot claim for any times the deposit. All you can do is take the LL to court for non protection, and it is up to the judge how much if any compensation you may be awarded. It is totally discretionary on the judge.

Hi The Carpet Cleaners,

I don't believe that is correct, as when you issue the moneyclaim you have to insert an amount, so the usual advice given is to claim for the initial deposit plus three times eg. if your deposit is £1000, then you issue a claim for £4000, then it is up to the judge to amend or grant your award plus costs.

Hi Caggers!

Me again! Ok, so my saga continues with my rental situation and now I have the court papers from PCOL.

I find it odd that the person named on the court forms is not my actual landlord as named in my AST.

The last name is the same and after some googling tonight, it appears that the person named on the court claim is a relative of the landlady.

Is this even legal? Can a relative sue me for possession if they are not the named landlord?

I have received an email from Wonga today titled, "WE ARE SORRY" and goes on to say that my account was affected by internal debt collection issues and there were system errors. Apparently, they have been sending out phoney law firm letters. I will wait with bated breath to see what my letter says when it is receive with news of any "historical payment issues"! This applies to persons who dealt with them between 2008 and 2010!

Hi Mariner,

My thread relates to the landlord who is holding onto thousands of my money as he has been overpaid from my allowances.

This is the landlord who has not protected my deposit.

This is the landlord who does not fix anything but is happy for my company to pick up the bill for repairs.

I can NEVER be in rental arrears.

I have no fear of an S21 as it is already my intention to depart on the last day of this fixed tenancy.

Change the locks, keep the landlords locks and put them back on when you leave.

 

Your LL may have a wobbly about it but in reality it's tuff and there is little they can do about it.

Thanks ashmk and ericsbrother!

I've had to do this!

The landlord refused to give assurances that he would not enter without permission.

That tells me he is up to no good!

I've also deducted the cost of changing the locks from the rent and told him to sue me if he doesn't like it, but as far as I am concerned, his entering my place of residence has caused me to feel unsafe and I've had to secure the premises.

And if he sues, he can explain to the judge why he thinks it okay to enter this flat without consent.

Makes you wonder if he's come before, and how many other tenants he has done/is doing this to.

Exactly! He is a professional landlord too with a large portfolio of flats.

He knows I'm often not at home as I do travel for my job, so he may have been entering all along.

Only now that things are bad between us, he wants to cover his tracks by leaving a written notice on the kitchen table!

Thanks Rebel11 - I certainly will do! I'm so incensed that someone would actually think it is acceptable to do an inspection on Easter Sunday!!!

Is there a timetable for inspections or something in the agreement about inspecting at a time near to the end of the tenancy agreement? Is the landlord selling the property? Both of these will kick in a right for the landlord to enter the property. It may also be that when he got no response the LL was concerned about your whereabouts or wellbeing.

Best speak to him about why he entered so it doesnt happen again other than by arrangement.

Hi there - no timetable for inspections in the tenancy agreement and we are not at an end or near to the end of the tenancy. He isn't selling the property either. This entry is purely the landlord being stink and awful about the fact that he has stolen my overpayments (see my other thread!). He is now trying to make my life hell!!

Thanks Rebel11 - I will certainly send off a harsh missive first thing tomorrow morning to make my feelings clear on this matter.

Thanks for the link Rebel11.

The point being that I was away for the hols and could not have responded whether they slipped it under the door, left it on the kitchen table or taped it to the window! They should not have entered without waiting for my consent. I find it a gross intrusion of privacy and frankly, quite disgusting to know that he has been in my home without my knowledge or consent.

So, I've been away for the Easter Hols, from Monday of last week to just now returning to the flat.

First thing first, I open up the door and there is an envelope on the kitchen table from the landlord, dated 16 April.

The note states that an inspection would be made on Sunday 20 April. Who does an inspection on Easter Sunday?

The only obvious signs that someone has been in the flat is that the fact that the note is on the kitchen counter and the lights inside have been left on!

Correct me if I am wrong, but does a landlord have the right to enter a flat without consent?

I've read loads on the internet but there is no general agreement on this matter.

Should the landlord not have waited until they received my permission?

Thoughts please, especially from you legal minds out there! Thanks in advance.

What I suggest is you prepare a statement of the account to include all your payments on one side and rent due on the other, for the whole time you have been living there.

Then send that to the LL for his information and agreement and if you have overpaid in total you can to some agreement on how to proceed.

This will also be useful if do get to court as it will be evidence and it will be up to him to come with some form of evidence to counter it.

If you back the statement up with bank statements or pay in slips all the better.

Well, I've sent off the statement of account as you suggested and LL has not replied to that at all - no acknowledgement I've also formally asked for proof of deposit protection in the cover letter with the rental statements. I now have letters from all four deposit protection schemes to let me know that my deposit has never been with them, nor is it with them now! The LL has not responded to my request for deposit info or acknowledged the statement. The LL does not know that I have the written confirmation from the schemes. Instead, LL has sent another SMS message to say that they will approach my employers for the alleged rental arrears! They do not respond to legal letters either, as I've instructed a solicitor to write to them about my overpayments. Three times I've wrote to them and solicitor has written once. Is this now a case of just let them write to employers and present that to the court as evidence of harassment?

The most important issue is this, if you had been in arrears for your tenancy prior to the new tenancy agreement in 2013, whilst the LL can chase you for the arrears, he cannot claim possession of the property for those arrears as they arose under a different agreement to the one you hold now. If, however, the arrears have arisen since 2013 and the new agreement, then the LL has no obligation to take any alleged overpayment of rent to reduce new arrears, though he has an obligation to return any overpaid rent to you (and you can sue for its return). Logic would say if there was an overpayment, that the LL would simply reduce current arrears with it - but he is not obliged to.

This is the exact opposite of the legal advice that a solicitor has given me today.

The solicitor explicitly said that if there is an overpayment of rent for one address, it does not matter if it arose under a previous or new rental agreement. If the tenant and the landlord remain the same parties, and the address remains the same, then the the two agreements can be merged into one if there is money issue.

Therefore, any money paid to the landlord from now on must be deducted from any future money owing for rent! The solicitor has advised me to force the landlord to pursue me if they think that money is owed!

In the meantime, I can indeed withold rent in the future, as all I would be doing is increasing the landlord's account and I would then have to chase and sue the landlord for my overpayments.

Yes, posters often 'insist', even when it's patently obvious they don't really have a clue.

 

What you choose to do is up to you.

Mariner is right! I've been waiting to see what happens to a mate of mine that is suing for her deposit back. Her claim has NOT been allocated to the multi or fast track! Perhaps it may depend on the deposit amount, as her amount of deposit is £250.

I personally know four different people, other than my mate, who are in the process of filing against landlords who have not protected deposits. I have checked with all of them today and we have all received the same advice that any LL who had a deposit in their possession during May 2012 should have protected it in 2012 (Localism Act). Thereafter, each new signed AST must be fully protected. If the deposit was already protected before signing, the LL must provide the PI to be legally safe!

 

As with most cases, you are better off negotiating with the LL. If you've been there with no problems since 2006, you must be a reasonably good tenant, and any logical LL will consider that.

The only problem is that my LL is not logical. I have sent my corrected rental statements repeatedly showing a credit balance, yet the LL insists that any overpayments are regarded as an increase in rent!! The LL seemed clueless when I insisted on my PI and instead just repeatedly insisted that as I was paying more money in rent, I owe the rest of my allowances!! I'd like to just get my S8 or S21, countercliam for my non-protection of the deposits (each failure to protect), sue him for the overpayment and then leave this crazy house! Plenty of houses out there to rent, despite what the newspapers keep telling people - I've seen three houses this weekend all in the same rental price range and with gardens to boot!

Good news re the deposit proof you have.

 

But...I am surprised if you have received legal advice about counterclaiming, that you have not also been told that whilst you can do that, the case will be allocated to the multi or fast tracks and with that come the additional fees aforementioned.

Hi Lea_HTH,

I did some quick googling and came up with this recent thread about suing for deposits - a poster insists that you can use MCOL.

http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?61095-Superstrike-deposit-protection-rules-clarity

I suspect, if the deposit was merely paid into his bank account, and there is no specific record of a 'deposit', that the LL will state no deposit is held. Does your new tenancy agreement specify that he holds a deposit for you?

Hi Lea_HTH - there is no dispute with LL over the deposit paid - both tenancy agreements state the deposit amount and the deposit was paid with a bank cheque for the exact amount stated. LL issued a receipt as well for the deposit in 2006. With the new 12 month AST in 2013, LL specifically makes mention of the deposit amount, stating that the amount previously held would continue to be held as a deposit on the new AST. However, what LL has failed to do to date, is give me any details of where deposit is and send me the PI! I have checked the websites of the schemes and all comeback with "no deposit held" - I've also written to all schemes just to confirm that they don't have my deposit.

I suggest you type up a table of payments made against payments due and then issue a money claim against the LL for the return of your overpaid rent from previous tenancy agreements.

 

I am afraid I would not advise trying to claim for non-deposit protection as it is just so expensive to get a claim started - but if you have a spare £1k go for it. If you have proof of paying the deposit, you will win and have your deposit returned to you - and at least one times that amount as a penalty is likely to be awarded against the LL (up to the judge if he wants to award more).

Thanks Lea_HTH - I've done the table already and had this sent off to LL as part of the LBA. I'm just giving them 14 days as per legal advice to respond.

With regard to claiming for deposit non-protection, the good news is that I don't have to outlay any money - I've already been advised that I can raise the non-protection as a counterclaim when the LL serves the S21 or S8. I have legal advice that I would be in a strong positon to claim for a full penalty(x3), as the LL failed to protect the deposit in 2012 and has since failed to protect the deposit for the new AST created in December.

Your tenancy started in 2006...and ended 2007 - but you do not specify actual dates.

Signed tenancy in August 2006, so went SPT in August 2007 - after April 2007.

 

Did it go periodical before or after 6th April 2007? That is what is relevant.Already answered above - it went to an SPT after April 2007 - August 2007 to be exact.

 

I see you ignored the question regarding the differences in your posts and when/if a new tenancy agreement was started.

In my earlier post, I was operating under the assumption that I was still in a SPT, as I didn't remember if I had received acknowledgment from the LL (I checked and no paperwork from LL to acknowledge receipt of new AST) However, the CAB says that doesn't matter if I have an acknowledgement or not from the LL that they received the new AST as I paid the new rent amount in December 2013, so an AST was created regardless of non-acknowledgement from the LL.

Sorry Lea_HTH - see above - I've answered your question - the tenancy went SPT after April 2007. The schemes advise that the deposit held from 2006 should have been protected in 2012.

Yep agree, don't get confrontational with the LL if you want to stay, and discuss exactly what he wants and then how to get over any problems.

Keep it amicable if you can, does not sound as though you are far apart and can be sorted to every bodies satisfaction in the end.

Thanks raydetinu, but it is now past that point! The LL refuses to negotiate, won't return money or give me credit for it and is actually trying to extort more money from me, as LL claims I'm in arrears!