I would be very interested in seeing some more transcripts. My Notice of Appeal to the Employment Appeal Tribunal can be read on my blog. Every point of law I put forward was well researched and backed by evidence and references to relevant caselaw. I did not receive any feedback to these points. I will put the transcripts on when I have time. They are open to the public so this must be permissible? At the EAT Mr Recorder Luba in his transcript records that I requested an independent assessment of my claim. In this transcript he gives his assurance that this would be forthcoming. In direct contradiction of this all that follows is simply a list of the previous refusals I had. Mr Luba followed the mantra often quoted by judges that they are 'not allowed to interfere with a previous judge's decision.' I have spoken to many people and they are all as dumbfounded as I am that it is not accepted by judges that this renders any attempt to appeal a decision futile. They also assert that they cannot re visit the evidence. They could not re visit any evidence put forward by the Respondent because they did not put any forward. No specific evidence was quoted in the Respondent's witness statements. The references to indisputable evidence that I referenced in my witness statement were ignored. This was just one of the points I put forward as an appeal based on perversity. I was then told that it is not possible/allowed to put forward a case based on perversity. I would like someone to tell Edward Jacobs this. His book was endorsed by the President of Tribunals, but as I have discovered, it might as well be fiction. My application to the Court of Appeal received a much shorter rebuff. I will post this on my blog as well. I was just told that I had no chance ( in their jargon) and the only reason was that he was in agreement with Mr Luba. I have had a rather garbled response from a series of complaints I sent out. I think they all landed on the same desk. The arguments put forward are all flawed and do not address any of the issues I have raised. We need to get these altogether on one site. No judge truly has to be accountable for his or her decision. They all have sovreinty. The only person they are supposed to be accountable to is HRH Queen Elizabeth, to whom they pledge their oath 'to do right by all manner of people.' If you write to HRH she will refer you to her ministers of justice who will tell you they cannot interfere or address any complaints - because of sovreignty. My blog is: tribunalsandtribulations.blogspot.co.uk I have not added anything for some time - trying to live a normal, happy life! When I have some free time I will put the responses to my complaints on for all to see. None of them are confidential so we should be sharing them! Now my battle with the tribunals has come to an end I will see what reason is now given for refusing to look at my complaints - the stock answer I was given to date has been 'we cannot interfere with the outcome.' I always stressed this was not my reason for complaining. There will have to be another blank refusal now. At least I now do not have any deadlines to meet. I can give myself breaks. Sheiladip

Thank you Sweet Lorraine, I am awaiting a response from the Court of Appeal. Meanwhile I am trying to make 'disclosures' to those in higher authority about the lack of accountability of the judges. I have approached my own MP who forwarded my complaint/disclosure to someone in charge of the administration of tribunals - and of course got a reply that again told me that it was not under his remit - so I have written again to my MP. Thank you for the link to the petition. It will be on my list of things to do! I will not leave any stone unturned in my quest. I am not spending all my time on this. It does give me some peace of mind - just to know that I am doing something. Of course there are still frustrations but I spend time meditating and with my family so keep it in perspective. Like wildm - I am nibbling - and hoping that it will pay off - if not I still have my story to tell.

When I found this thread I recommended Edward Jacob's book -' Tribunal Procedures and Practice.' I have spent hundreds of pounds on books and this was the only one that was useful. But, as I keep saying, it might as well be fiction. I have read so much 'caselaw' but as I said to a judge at the EAT - he can find one to dismiss my case, but I am confident that I could find three to support it. ( which I did, but mine don't count) There is a section in Jacob's book that explains that caselaw or 'precedents' are guidelines only. They are not supposed to be used as hard and fast laws, set in stone. I have quoted from Lord Justice Underhill in: Council of the City of Newcastle Upon Tyne v Mr J Marsden, ( Appeal No. UKEAT/0393/09/CEA) There is in this field as in others a tendency – often denounced but seemingly ineradicable - for broad statutory discretions to become gradually so encrusted with case-law that decisions are made by resort to phrases or labels drawn from the authorities rather than on a careful assessment of what justice requires in the particular case. I can identify with this directly. I can show that in every decision I have been given, cases have been quoted but not applied to the facts of my case. The phrases and labels alone have been used. It would seem that there has been no improvement since 2009. When I try to report the injustice my complaint is rephrased and directed to another person - who repeats this. I have explained that I am only using examples from my case because this is my experience to date AND of course that the refusals I have had, with NO reasons given seem to be widespread and accepted by those in the legal profession. That is why I want to draw examples from other people's cases. I said at the beginning - all I need to do is find a judge who will listen to the truth and is loyal to his/ her oath. I have yet to find one. I am at the last hurdle now. If you have any 'reasons' from judges that I can look at I would be interested. The ones I have been given are just 'conclusions.' I continued to ask for the reason and the evidence that they relied on but this , and my persistence in pursuing my claim labelled me as 'vexatious.' I read in one of my other law books that 'a right to a fair trial' under human rights only applies to criminal law. It did not say why. I can't see why this is 'the law' as no fair minded person would agree with this. If it is another get out clause for the judges to use it needs to be changed. Another habit I have, which seems to antagonise judges are my questions about the 'overriding interests of justice' and why they cannot be applied to my case! One judge even put in her 'reasons' that I did not understand why this could not apply to my case - but she did not go on to explain why. The lawyers I have spoken to all just looked at me as if I was so naive and said that they only exist on paper. It must be in the overriding interests of justice to allow a fair trial.

I would like to know the details of your case. I would like to know who you have complained to so far and what responses you have had. When I complain to those in authority, they re phrase my complaint and tell me they cannot give legal advice or influence the handling or outcome of my case. I have continually repeated that I am only using examples from my own case, because firstly, that is where my experience lies, and secondly it provides a clear example of the gross injustice that is taking place. I want to list cases that have been dismissed on mantras - not applying the facts of the case to the caselaw quoted. Read my blog - How ridiculous is this? I have attempted to make disclosures but they are re labelled as complaints of 'personal misconduct ' of a judge. One was investigated by a regional judge. when he sent me his result...that there was no personal misconduct, I replied telling him that this was not my complaint, he was given the wrong remit - giving inadequate reasons is clearly professional negligence or misconduct. We all have a right to know why we have won or lost. He responded and conceded that he saw my point. Most of the problem lies with the judges not complying with their duty to give adequate reasons. One of the cases quoted regularly is 'Meek'. In order for an Employment Tribunal judgment to be "Meek compliant" (ie provide adequate information) it must explain why the evidence of one party is preferred to that of another and, if appropriate to the case, why the evidence of a witness whose credibility was not questioned is rejected. In the reasons given to me no evidence has been referred to, only a statement from the respondent's witness. The reasons do not comply with this precedent as was asserted. To anyone not working in the legal sector, 'Meek' is just describing plain, natural justice. Would you complain if your child was put in detention and the teacher refused to explain to anyone why? I totally agree with you. When anyone tells me to drop it, I explain that it would be more frustrating to me and cause even more stress. I know people who have done this and they are very bitter. You need to channel the energy from the 'stress' while being aware that you cannot change things overnight. I was advised by a friend to compartmentalise it - so that it does not dominate my life. It was difficult when I had deadlines. Also I 'ground' myself regularly. There are people fighting battles for their rights everywhere - just look at victimsunited website. I found this comment on the website: it puts things in perspective - my take on it is that the internet is mightier than the pen! Maureen Jenner The gradual drip, drip of water made stalagmites; maureenjenner*commented*on*Vexatious Litigants. in response to*Sabine Kurjo McNeill: If you start out as a victim, you may become a litigant in person because you can’t afford a lawyer or got cheated by one or more or found them incompetent. However, you then run the risk of becoming a “vexatious litigant”. You may want to wear this title with pride. But read here how [...] The sense of frustration and injustice is palpable in these letters. It is not enough that those who so blatantly pervert the course of justice fail to realise what they are doing, but make huge profits out of doing it. It is of some comfort that word is spreading through the internet, and the news of these misdeeds is percolating through to people in other countries. As long as we keep fuelling the flow of information regarding these abominations of injustice, despite the machinations of their perpetrators, we can ensure victory for the victims – eventually. The gradual drip, drip of water made stalagmites; gradual erosion by river water resulted in the Grand Canyon. The saddest fact to be faced is that our lives do not stretch to such longevity; too many will never live to see the justice they deserve – and that is the greatest injustice, as well as the greatest evil. It is also a mark of the shame and degradation to which those who, having sworn to uphold the law, are reneging on that oath. No one who turns their back on victims deserves to be regarded as great, whatever their title. It is the people who make the country; they are the ones called upon to risk, and give, their lives in the service of the monarch and the country. For this reason, those who live in, and with, great privilege, must be more accountable. It’s not enough to claim non-involvement in political matters. The appointments of judges is still the prerogative of the monarch; on the recommendation of the prime minister of the day. Claiming ignorance holds no water now; if we can find out these matters via the internet, then so can those who live in palaces. I am one of these drips .....I need some more to join me!!!

I attended a 3(10) 30th May 2013....The Recorder told me that an appeal on perversity was impossible. I requested an independent and impartial assessment of my claim. He opened the hearing assuring me of this. Then in the transcript he lists all the refusals I have had, including from the Respondent while I was employed - and uses these as a reason to refuse my appeal. I recently told my GP this and her reaction was the same as any 'fair minded' person....what is the point of an appeal? My witness statement and the evidence I cited was ignored. The tribunal judge repeated a statement made by the witness as 'evidence.' She was the person who took the decision to dismiss me. There is no evidence cited in her witness statement, only unsubstantiated sweeping statements and a reference to some pages in the investigation report. I gave several examples of the evidence that was supposed to back up this report, and it is quite the opposite, it actually supports my case. The Appeal Tribunal Judge agreed that I had given sufficient 'sample acts of those complained of.' I found this expression in a case that I read, but then could not find it to quote directly. He recognised the phrase. The Appeal Tribunal Judge repeated the same sentence from the Respondent's witness. The jargon is: 'by assertion only.' I have submitted a Notice of Appeal to the Court of Appeal. I will put this on my blog. It is largely the same as the notice of appeal made to the Employment Appeal Tribunal. The EAT judge did not address any of the points I put forward. I am expecting a refusal any day. I checked that it was being dealt with after reading the recent case which came under the heading 'justice delayed is justice denied.' I made an application for a limitation of costs under CPR 52.9A. I have also requested the judges' notes of evidence, which is essential for an appeal based on perversity. The purpose behind this application is to continue with my story. It is virtually impossible for someone of modest means to progress to the Court of Appeal, and the tribunal judges know this. I am also hopeful that there might be some reasonable, fair minded judges who will read my appeal. The Appeal document is quite long, but if you take time to read it you will see that is is a complex case! Thank you for your interest. Sheila

Thank you It was the bullying in the workplace that was making me ill - and some of my colleagues had and were suffering as well. I am not going to drive myself to illness. I have tried to balance my life and found inspiration in quotes from many people. Now I do not have any deadlines I can assuage my frustration in telling my story and attempting to make disclosures about the gross injustice that is taking place. If I do nothing I feel ill! If 'fair' is not what the law says then it is an ass.

I am unemployable so your concern about future employers is not relevant. I was employed in the same profession for my whole career. I have applied for many differing jobs, but was only short listed and interviewed for one. They told me that I was beaten only because the other person had more experience in the role. whatever I apply for it will be the same - I have no other experience. I was looking at transferable skills, but ultimately It will always be justifiable and fair to employ the person who has proven skills in the field. I am now 60, so had the government not changed the retirement age I would have been properly retired. It is also difficult to get shortlisted for jobs at my age. Re the blog: perhaps I should have started a website - or something else. Blogs are usually shorter and not so serious - I think? But I have to use the skills I have. Overly long - you cannot tell part of the story. It makes it sound petty. Bitter - yes I have good reason to be bitter. But I am now trying to channel that bitterness into something positive. I genuinely did not believe the lawyers when they described the tribunal system. I thought they were just trying to downgrade my claim. But my experience and observations have shown that they are telling the truth. Whether you win or lose at the employment tribunal depends on the mood of the judge and whether he/she likes you. The majority of judges do not like anyone who makes a stand against bullying, or even disagrees with 'management.' You are automatically in the wrong. I will be posting my Application to Appeal on the blog, unless anyone can tell me a better way to share it. It IS easily accessible to anyone. If you are interested in law it is an informative story. I am not just rambling and bitter. I have researched thoroughly and identified my points of law from Edward Jacob's book. They are backed up with up to date caselaw and indisputable evidence. Tribunals are open to the public. I would like to observe more and set up a tribunal watch. The decisions do not comply with the rules of natural justice and are not explained, even if 'reasons' are supplied. I said at one point that all I needed was a judge who would listen to the truth and who believed in justice. They seem to be rare. What do you make of the judge's mantras that I have described to date? Lord Justice Underhill has identified this habit. I am not making it all up.

WHAT CAN WE DO? I have tried to complain about the lack of accountability of the judges - They are supposed to comply with a duty to give reasons and describe the evidence they used in their decisions. There is a habit of using quotes from past cases without explaining how they relate to the case they are adjudicating on. See my blog! I am now attempting to compile a dossier of these decisions in my quest to improve the system. I have attempted to make disclosures to all of those in highest authority. I would like to hear the full details of your story. I have started a blog on blog spot. I have called it tribunals and tribulations. ( no spaces) It is an ongoing process and I need more material - not to mention more time! I am trying not to let this take over my life, but it is not something that we should be ignoring. More people need to make their voice heard. I have observed some employment tribunals and the majority of judges are rude, intimidating and dismissive of evidence. I have been told by ALL of the lawyers I have been in contact with that the outcome of a case 'depends on the mood of the judge and whether he likes you or not.' I have spoken to many and not one of them had any faith in the system. Edward Jacobs Book is excellent - endorsed by the Senior President of Tribunals - I identified my 'points of law' using this book - all backed up with indisputable evidence - but it might as well be fiction. The judges do and say whatever they like and do not comply with the rules.

WHAT CAN WE DO? I have tried to complain about the lack of accountability of the judges - They are supposed to comply with a duty to give reasons and describe the evidence they used in their decisions. There is a habit of using quotes from past cases without explaining how they relate to the case they are adjudicating on. See my blog! I am now attempting to compile a dossier of these decisions in my quest to improve the system. I have attempted to make disclosures to all of those in highest authority. I would like to hear the full details of your story. I have started a blog on blog spot. I have called it tribunals and tribulations. ( no spaces) It is an ongoing process and I need more material - not to mention more time! I am trying not to let this take over my life, but it is not something that we should be ignoring. More people need to make their voice heard. I have observed some employment tribunals and the majority of judges are rude, intimidating and dismissive of evidence. I have been told by ALL of the lawyers I have been in contact with that the outcome of a case 'depends on the mood of the judge and whether he likes you or not.' I have spoken to many and not one of them had any faith in the system.

I have been in dispute with my employer since July 2008. I tried to access the funding from my insurance policy, but unless you have a short, cheap case, they are not worth anything, in fact the solicitors employed by the insurance made things worse. I am working on two appeals and have not got time to read all the messages. But I just wanted to recommend the book by Edward Jacobs produced by LAG...I wish I had this one at the start. If you are going to appeal it is essential. I applied for an appeal and was turned down. After reading the book I realise that i was putting forward very strong and valid points of law - but I was not using their jargon. I would like to join something to report how the judges treat a litigant in person. I observed tribunals and most of the judges are intimidating, they even shout and constantly criticise. At my hearing on the first day I had this treatment. I am a strong person but I was tempted not to go in on the second day. On the second day there were a load of observers and the judge just listened to me - the impatience of the day before disappeared! I would like to observe more and do something about this. Most tribunal judges have forgotton that they are supposed to uphold the law. They think they are above the law - because they are allowed to get away with it. Got too much to do ........