Hi all, Sorry for not updating sooner, and there's good news and bad news... Good news is that my OH was offered another (bus driving) job, which is ideal as it's located next to my depot so we will be saving a lot of fuel and travelling time! He's waiting for a phone call to confirm start date, so he can give notice to the current company. Bad news, they have invited him to attend a disciplinary meeting next thursday, with a view of dismissing him as he has a final written warning on his file. Basically my OH is guilty of what they claim he does not deny this. Now the dilemma is that he wants to resign in order to start his new job, he has to give 1 weeks notice so if they have the meeting can they dismiss him if he has already resigned..? Also we have sent the appeal re the grievance, but as the new rules they do not have to consider this if he no longer works there. If so then do we just lodge a claim with the tribunal? He does want to go as far as he can with this, he has never worked for a company with such an attitude towards its employees. He's so happy about this new job, it's a small family company very relaxed, and the hours are much more reasonable. the pay isn't as good but that's a small price to pay! TIA

Unfortunately there seem to be some confusion over the EU working time regulations and the driving regulations. His work is covered by the domestic driving rules, which is NOT as strict as the EU driving rules. I am myself a coach driver and the nature of MY work makes it fall under EU rules, where as I have to use a tachograph record of any journey I make. He on the other hand does not have to. I believe there are certain exceptions in WTR (correct me if I'm wrong) that allows this. Thanks! He's already looking elsewhere, you're right he is burning himself out!

Hi, Thanks for all the replies! To BRB, I shall try and answer the questions. a) All he saw was a memo on the notice board April 2008 asking people to join the bus service, with the additional benefits of enhanced hourly rate, holiday entitlement, and guaranteed hours. This variation we have confirmed in writing, and that is all there was. b) He knows he was paid straight through now he's not. c) He was paid through from the start of the bus service June 2008 to August 2009 to when the memo was given. d) See previous answer. e) The drivers hand over their timesheets, upon which the wages are calculated, and then paid by BACS weekly. f) See answer b. g) Welll wouldn't you...? :-| To Elpulpo, LOL I must say I thought something of those lines when I first read the letter... To postggj, You'll be horrified, he works Mon-Fri one week and then Mon-Sat the other. His short week is approx. 66hrs, the long one 77hrs. He is aware of the working time regulations and driving law, however he has not signed any optout. (which he would anyway, being a workaholic!) I hope I have answered all the questions, thanks again for all of your help! I must now start drafting the appeal.

Hi all, We have now received the outcome of the grievance in writing, I'm hoping someone could advise us on the next step.. Also I got the dates slightly wrong on my op, as I did not have the documents at hand at the time, apologies. This is what they are saying: "1. The decision to pay for lunch breaks was taken previously at the absolute discretion of the Company. This decision was applied arbitrarily throughout the organisation with some employees being entitled to paid lunch break some of the time and did not give rise to a contractual right for all employees to be paid during all lunch break periods. The Company's decision to stop paying any of it's employees during their lunch break was a proper exercise of it's discretion and does not constitute a variation of your contract of employment requiring your consent. The Company had every right to exercise it's discretion in this way and did so in good attempt to save costs and avoid more drastic cost cutting measures such as e.g. redundancies for one or more members of staff. 2. In the alternative if you had a contractual entitlement to receive payment during your lunch break, which for the avoidance of doubt is firmly denied by the Company, then the change which was put in place in August last year to your terms and conditions had now been accepted by you." Now the date is correct, but what he is forgetting is that the grievance was dated 28th September 2009, original meeting was scheduled for 12th October 2009 and before that it was raised verbally several times but ignored. Unfortunately my OH fell ill for 8 weeks so could not attend the meeting then, and then annual leave over Christmas, and then they were just dragging their heels! Is there such thing as "absolute discretion" in employment law? if so I haven't found it... Any ideas please? TIA

No, his contract is very basic, no specific terms. He does have breaks, but the nature of his work as a bus driver means that he takes his breaks on the road most of the time and has to stay near his vehicle. they moaned at him once for going back to the depot for his break because excess mileage. Now he only goes back to the depot for vehicular reasons (fuelling, maintenance). He spends more time on that bus than he does at home! On the coaching side, if the driver only does a schoolrun in am & pm and nothing in between (ie.yard duties) they are deducted lunch, but if they have a private hire or any other job between schoolruns they get paid straight through. Given that my OH starts his day at 6am and doesn't finish until 7pm and is out all day, he is understandably ****ed off!

No union. How long should we wait for the written outcome? considering it took them months to arrange the meeting in the first place.. My OH has been asked to deduct the 5hrs from his timesheet, but has refused and is still marking his full hours worked. and funnily they don't deduct it for Saturday? Some weeks they've taken 4 hrs, some weeks 2hrs and the last one they took 6hrs even he didn't work the Saturday! Go figure...

Hi, They already told him the outcome was negative. they said they'll put it in writing, but we haven't received anything yet. I think they may want to run it through their legal team first.. I believe they have made a total mess of this, even their option to go back on the coaches would mean less pay and less hours. The MD could not answer when asked about the ad-hoc, as the the memo was the first anyone had heard of it! Seems like they make it up as they go along to suit themselves. Also I cannot see how they can claim that it doesn't form a part of their contract, after all they were paid straight through from June 2008 to October 2009, I'd like to think that this would be an implied term by custom and practise? Will request copy of the minutes, meanwhile any ideas of the wording for the appeal?

Hi Elpulpo, thanks for replying! I believe minutes were taken, but he was not shown them or asked to sign. He did however follow my advise and recorded the meeting, and yes the md actually said that... Unfortunately my OH is not very legally minded, so was not confident enough to argue at the meeting. I have printed out piles of information to read through so he'll get his head around it. This will potentially cost the company quite a bit, as if they give in, they'll have to do the same for all those affected, and there's a fair few.

Hi all, I'm writing on behalf of my OH, I'll try to be as brief as possible.. He has been working for a coach/bus company for nearly 3 years now as a pcv driver. He started as a coach driver, but in June 2008 the company gained a few council funded bus routes, to which the company put up a notice asking volunteers to join the bus service which came with enhanced rate of pay, and better guaranteed hours. He jumped at this and has been on the bus service ever since. In September there was an unsigned memo attached to his payslip, telling them that from 1st October 2009 they will be deducting 1hr pay/day for lunch. They claimed that the arrangement to pay them straight through was only Ad-Hoc basis and was only to entice drivers to join the bus service. and as such did not form part of their contract. They also gave an option to rejoin the coach side of the business. My OH first phoned his supervisor told him he's not happy about this but he was brushed off. I advised him to put in a Grievance which he did, and he finally had his meeting on 11/02/2010. He could not find anyone to accompany him to the meeting so I advised him to record it. There is nothing in his contract that allows them to deduct anything, but the MDs reasoning at the meeting was simply that he has asked a lawyer and there is nothing in his contract to say that they CANNOT do this!! I have read through ERA1996 s13 and as I understand it if it's NOT in the contract then they CANNOT deduct anything? We are waiting for the outcome of the grievance in writing, so we can appeal this. Any ideas? Thanks.

Thank you Elche, I have NOT agreed to any deduction. I will write the letter, but do you think i should go straight to grievance, or maybe take informal approach first? If you search my previous posts you'll find this is not my first grievance either... Won that one, though. Thanks again for your help.

Hi all, I'm not sure if this should be posted here or the parking forum, as it deals with both, mods feel free to move if needed. I am a coach driver, and upon noticing my last weeks wages were £50 short, I checked my payslip. Attached to it was a Parking Charge Notice from CP Plus for overstaying in a motorway service area. They demanded a payment for £80 reduced to £50 if paid soon. My employer had obviously PAID the said invoice without notifying me, and then clawed back the money from my wages! I have spent a lot of time reading about these private parking companies, and am fully aware that these PCN's are unenforcable in courts. I have read my terms and conditions of employment and there is NOTHING in there that gives them the right to deduct money from me apart the statutory deductions. I am absolutely fuming, and need some help to draft a letter to my company to resolve this issue. I have been employed with this company for 2.5 years. Any advice is greatly appreciated!

RESULT!!!!:grin: No meeting today, but had a letter handed to me titled "without prejudice" where he admits that he was in the wrong and that he will pay me the full 8 hrs for those 3 days! :grin::grin: I'll be withdrawing my grievance as I now got what I wanted. I suppose the idea of having to defend his actions to me face to face was too much.. I didn't think I was THAT scary!! Thank you all for your help and advice, donation will be made Friday!

Hi all, Had a letter on Friday asking me to attend a meeting in reference of my grievance, on Monday (today) with no time specified. I saw my boss this morning, he told me he would speak to me a little later, I also asked to have someone there with me to which he replied, "don't worry I'll have someone else there as well" I thought the whole idea is for ME to choose the person to accompany me? Anyway, we never got that far I waited and waited until I had to go to do my schoolrun, I was then told by his assistant that the boss have left the office but would see me on Wednesday! I'm REALLY annoyed!! I got myself all worked up for nothing... I think he's giving me a bit of a runaround here...

Thanks Sidewinder, I did try to tell my colleagues that but it seemed to go straight over their heads! We get paid the holidays @ 8hrs/day I don't believe this is an average rate of hours worked. I think my boss would benefit from an intensive course in employment law, as his knowledge seems to be somewhat lacking in that department...

Thanks Paul, I think he might be waiting for the school term to end on Wednesday, as after that we would have plenty of time to have the grievance meeting. That would be fine with me. We have also lost yet another driver (he walked out), and one of the oldtimers is leaving tomorrow.. Not Good! Some people at work have told me I'm being silly to even try to get my hours paid as we haven't got a written contract or "guaranteed hours". I just wish to let him know that he can't treat people like dirt just because he's the boss! Besides I haven't got anything to lose by asking.. Also got a job offer from the company my OH works for! I will have to see where this goes first, though..