Egg - DLC final straits / SETTLED

[e_inspired]

Hi All,

 

It’s a long story but I will summarise, I need help to write something to court to get Egg - DLC request for an extension denied:

1. Egg started court proceedings against me for a loan

2. Egg POC stated an agreement that does not exist, never has (dodo's)

 

3. CCA/SAR Egg – did not get agreement stated in POC as expected

 

4. Looked a default notice I had received for loan mentioned in (2) even that was faulty and most important of all should never have been reported to CRA's

 

5. Court granted stay for us to work things out – wrote to the egg letting them know about my discovery and I even stupidly outlined my whole defence... I didn’t get a reply.

 

6. Applied for summary judgement – attended court with the egg solicitor ( 1st time in court was scared but loved it in a strange sort of way )

 

7. Judge gave order that they amend claim and POC to reflect correct agreement and gave them up till yesterday 12/09/2007 to file and serve new claim

 

8. Got letter today from DLC dated 12/09/2007:

“We have just been passed a copy of the Order dated 29th August 2007 made in xxxx.

Due to the deadline to serve an amended claim we will obviously have to instruct or solicitors to apply for an extension of time to comply with the order.

In the meantime we would suggest that both parties try to reach a settlement to avoid the need for further protracted Court action. As you are aware the Courts do encourage parties to converse with each other and we will notify them if we are able to reach an amicable arrangement.

Should you wish to speak to us (although we note you would prefer written contact) my direct line is xxxx.

Basically in their rush to ruin me they messed up BIG TIME.

As I said above I need help writing a letter to the court so they are NOT given an extension they have had loads of time to correct the claim for any debt that may have existed, they are playing silly buggers. Any advice as to my next steps would be appreciated also any details on how I can claim costs etc if they abandon the case etc.

Thanks in advance.

 

[conar686]

Basically in their rush to ruin me they messed up BIG TIME.

As I said above I need help writing a letter to the court so they are NOT given an extension they have had loads of time to correct the claim for any debt that may have existed, they are playing silly buggers. Any advice as to my next steps would be appreciated also any details on how I can claim costs etc if they abandon the case etc.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

PM TomTerm, Laiste or Rory - one of them should get back to you

[pmhcfc]

And read this post - this is all about non-supply of OA

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/cabot/111844-another-cabot-court-case.html

[e_inspired]

Ok, so the good news is that I managed to crack the egg.. now I want to smash the egg, the kind judge decided to strike out the eggs case after 2 application notices by me to get it struck out.

 

Basically the muppets couldn't comply with a simple and I mean simple order like file the cliam with the right agreement number (duh) maybe they couldn't do that because they were already in breach of contract with any other agreement I may have had with them.

 

Even though it never really went to trial, I would like to say that I think the DEFAULT NOTICE is very very important and if its issued wrongly as in my case they got the agreement no. wrong and the muppets start legal action based on this, then they are in repudiatory breach of contract.

 

I recommend that people read up on default notices and also repudiatory breach in contract law.

 

I would like to thank pt2537 for all the regs etc.

 

Now I need to get them to remove the defaults, get the PPI back for the egg card and loan... another battle I guess .

 

 

- B e_inspired.

 

AS ALWAYS ALL THE ABOVE IS IMHO.

[pt2537]

Hi e_inspired

 

 

Firstly, youre very welcome, im glad they helped

 

when you applied for their case to be struck out did you ask for costs? due to the claimants unreasonable behaviour?

 

 

the default should be fairly straight forward in these circumstances, if you need any help please let us know, there is case law that may be helpfull to you in this case

 

Regards

paul

[e_inspired]

Thanks pt2537!

 

No, I didn't apply for costs its not to late is it? do I have to make another application notice? @£75 a pop their not cheap or can I just write to the Court and ask for it?

 

I am about to write egg about the default etc and any info you can give me will be very welcome.

 

- B e_inspired.

 

AS ALWAYS ALL THE ABOVE IS IMHO.

[pt2537]

Hi e_inspired

 

cant honestly remember, i have always included this in my letter to the court asking for the strike out where this is the case. to be honest, your not likely to recover much IMHO so it may be something to put down to experience

 

with regards the default removal, do you have a copy of the default notice they sent. ?

[e_inspired]

Hi pt253,

 

Thanks, I will research the whole cost issue..I think I can apply for costs but as you said it may not be worth it lucky egg.

 

Yes, I have the default notice.

 

- B e_inspired.

 

AS ALWAYS ALL THE ABOVE IS IMHO.

[pt2537]

Ok well ive just Emailed you something which you may find useful when looking over the default notice

 

 

you want to look at schedule 2 from page 4 onwards, it should help you

 

regards

paul

[e_inspired]

Hi All,

 

Where do I start... ok, so I think I have won it’s all done and dusted... read on.

 

So I do the natural thing and apply for costs, at costs hearing another Judge tells me that the court got it wrong and the files were filed in time (the order was to file and serve) I tried to explain this to this learned gentleman but no go, he gives a new order giving them more time to serve the amended claim (the muppets that are Egg don't even bother to show up to the cost hearing).

 

The egg hires new lawyers the dreaded drydens (I am sooo scared... no really I am they seem to know what they are doing), they serve the amended claim again out of time (yeah baby!!... well no).

 

By now we are all writing to the court to get their take on the matter and after 1000's of calls later to the court, hearing all kinds of things like it’s with the judge, it’s been stayed, we don't know where it is, its struck out, you will get a letter its being typed up, we can't find the file ... it really goes on and on. I finally got a nice person who faxed me a copy of a letter the court wrote to the lawyers, saying the claim is struck at as per blah blah blah BUT they can apply for an order to reinstate the claim mmm.

 

Today get a letter from Dry, guess what they are applying for the order above.

 

I believe I have a very good case against the egg but courts are strange places. I guess I may yet get my day in court.

 

If anybody knows the rules for applying for a reinstatement, i.e. what I can do to stop it, do they have a hearing, I would be grateful.

 

I will be detailing the case and issues in full and know I can count on your support.

Till the next instalment, I wish you all success in your endeavours.

 

BE_Inspired

[Mistermind]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/124731-ive-got-judgement-default-3.html?highlight=setasides#post1548751

 

A view on setasides from the boss man himself.

[e_inspired]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legalities/124731-ive-got-judgement-default-3.html?highlight=setasides#post1548751

 

A view on setasides from the boss man himself.

 

Thanks, some really good advice in that thread, I can't wait to get a copy of their application(if the send it). It also seems that there will also be a hearing, I get to see what the muppets are made of

[militantconsumer]

Excellent stuff, I look forward to the update.

 

It would be simply amazing if the judge were to rule that your agreement is unenforceable (assume it's like the one I posted on my thread)

 

Am really mightily p1ssed off with Egg at the moment as just received the sh1tt1est letter I've ever seen from a Financial services company (that's about a credit card PPI complaint - I'll be starting a new thread in due course).

 

So let's hope you do manage to really smash the w@nkers!

[joneseyblod]

Excellent thread, looking forward to the update.

[e_inspired]

Excellent stuff, I look forward to the update.

 

It would be simply amazing if the judge were to rule that your agreement is unenforceable (assume it's like the one I posted on my thread)

 

Am really mightily p1ssed off with Egg at the moment as just received the sh1tt1est letter I've ever seen from a Financial services company (that's about a credit card PPI complaint - I'll be starting a new thread in due course).

 

So let's hope you do manage to really smash the w@nkers!

 

My agreement.

 

eggcontract.jpg - Windows Live

 

The reinstatement hearing is next week, I don't plan to oppose it but rather ask the court to award cost to me for time wasted, to rule on the enforceability of the contract and allow me to counterclaim (I will be going for damages for PPI).

 

Egg don't want to remove the DN and I have made it clear that it is a requirement of any compromise so it would be a massive climb down if they offer anything for me to keep quiet about their dodgy contract .

 

Like I say I am not taking anything for granted, if they were to make an offer which included the DN being removed I would take it, Courts are funny places, anything can happen:(

[militantconsumer]

Thanks EI.

 

Just the same as my agreement.

 

I guess if what we read on the Multiple Agreements thread has ANY chance of being true then Egg are probably pooing their pants about thousands of their agreements being unenforceable. They are probably worried about courts being funny places too!

 

If you do end up signing a confidentiality agreement then I hope you will come back on here to say you can't say anything, not just disappear!

[e_inspired]

Ok, so I get home today and guess what? drydens have sent a letter to me and the court asking for the reinstatement hearing (RH) to be heard at the same time as their application for summary judgement (SJ), basically the RH is supposed to be on the 23rd Jan, they want it heard mid Feb with the SJ, they would also like me to write to the court if I agree.

 

The RH is just 7 days away... mmmm I wonder whats going on?

 

Oh maybe its the recent letter I sent them (2 days ago) that I would be seeking the courts declearation on the enforceablity of the contract provided... maybe?

[web2dude]

Thanks EI.

 

Just the same as my agreement.

 

I guess if what we read on the Multiple Agreements thread has ANY chance of being true then Egg are probably pooing their pants about thousands of their agreements being unenforceable. They are probably worried about courts being funny places too!

 

If you do end up signing a confidentiality agreement then I hope you will come back on here to say you can't say anything, not just disappear!

 

I've just found this thread and my agreement is the same with a few extra dodgy bits. I'm really interested at to how this turns out. Best of luck!

[e_inspired]

Ok, so I get home today and guess what? drydens have sent a letter to me and the court asking for the reinstatement hearing (RH) to be heard at the same time as their application for summary judgement (SJ), basically the RH is supposed to be on the 23rd Jan, they want it heard mid Feb with the SJ, they would also like me to write to the court if I agree.

 

The RH is just 7 days away... mmmm I wonder whats going on?

 

Oh maybe its the recent letter I sent them (2 days ago) that I would be seeking the courts declearation on the enforceablity of the contract provided... maybe?

 

I sent a fax to the court (also a copy to drydens) saying that I agree and also asking for the courts declaration on the enforceability of the contract.. based on part 18 etc.

 

I received a letter from the court yesterday saying that the hearings will be heard together on 17th feb (the judge had already decided before I had sent my letter ).

 

I received about 4 letters from drydens today saying basically the same thing that the hearing had been moved (they prob charge egg per letter).

[e_inspired]

Ok, so both applications are going to be heard on the 17th Feb.. less than 2 weeks away!!!!

 

I have today received the witness statement loads of blah blah... they are reallyy gunning for me look at this qoute below:

 

"It has only been since the Claimant began taking steps to recover the full balance due as a result of the Defendant's default under the Loan Agreement that the Defendant has raised issue with the validity of the Loan Agreement. The Claimant is of the opinon therefore that this allegation has been raised by the Defendant to avoid the repayment of the outstanding debt he is clearly liable for" :eek::eek:

 

This puppy is going all the way.. this weekend I am sleeping in the law library.. I need to really argue this multiple agreement properly.. I also need to file and serve by next tuesday (I think the CPR requires that?)

 

I am shi**ting bricks but I will give it my all.

 

I need all the help I can get... can anybody tell me what they think of this quote from the witness statement:

 

"The Defendant returned the signed Loan Agreement to the Claimant on or around 25 April 2004 and, having completed the necessary checks, the Claimant completed the Loan Agreement on or around 27 April 2004. In accordance with the terms of the Loan Agreement, a total advance of £xx,xxx.xx was granted under the Loan Agreement number xxxxx, the account number having been allocated once the Claimant had received all the required documentation from the Defendant"

 

I feel that this is a very serious statement, these are my thoughts:

 

1. s59 of CCA Agreement to enter future agreement void

2. They have already signed the agreement, so the agreement was excuted when I signed it or was it?

 

 

HELP!

Edited February 4, 2009 by e_inspired
Removed stuff about ppi wrong info

[e_inspired]

Just came back from court... I was lucky to make it out alive the DJ (he was good but) was definitely on the side of the egg , but somehow he deciding to adjourn the hearing so that the egg can get some answers to the issues I raised.

 

Basically we have narrowed it down to the following issues:

 

1. Was default notice valid?

 

My argument was:

 

The Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) require that a default notice in Schedule 2 (1) requires that for a default notice to be valid it must contain:

1. A description of the agreement sufficient to indentify it.

The DN I received states:

 

“Loan Agreement number xxxxxxxx

You are in breach of the terms of the agreement above, which requires.......”

 

Basically the egg stated an incorrect agreement number on the DN (they put the account number), the eggs barrister (a really nice guy and really good at his job) suggested that since I only had one loan with the egg that should have been sufficient to identify it. The DJ was unsure whether he had to consider the wider meaning or if he was supposed to have a narrow view on the reg. He said that he thought it maybe a technical error.

 

2. Is agreement void due to s59 of CCA

 

The DJ loved this point, even though he said he was leaning to the eggs view that the agreement had already been made, so it was not an agreement to enter an agreement. The DJ keep saying so if the agreement had been signed and I failed the checks what would happen, the barrister had to admit that it was a contentious issue as to what would have happened in that case and under contract law their potentially would be issues.

 

3. Was the agreement improperly executed?

 

The agreement did not have the Total Amount Payable or the Total Charge for Credit.

 

The DJ went along with the barrister’s argument that they could be worked out from the information on the agreement. I tried in vain to say that the CCA required them to be there and if they were not that the egg needed the court’s permission to enforce the agreement

 

4. Is agreement a multi part agreement?

 

We didn't get time to address this issue but outside the barrister tried to say that the PPI and loan were in the same category, I set him straight on that.

 

So there it is folks the show goes on. If anybody can point me to any case law that could support my views I would be grateful, the next time we meet it is going to be game over and it’s not looking to good for me.

 

Thanks for reading.

[bgqs]

It feels good when you can through a few swerve balls in there mate and well done, however, like you say it is just a matter of time now !

 

I have been made an offer which is very close to the claim figure however, does not have the amount of legal fees and expenses that they would be claiming if a judgement was made...

 

Am in two minds, whether to just accept or to make a counter offer....

[pt2537]

J

 

3. Was the agreement improperly executed?

 

The agreement did not have the Total Amount Payable or the Total Charge for Credit.

 

The DJ went along with the barrister’s argument that they could be worked out from the information on the agreement. I tried in vain to say that the CCA required them to be there and if they were not that the egg needed the court’s permission to enforce the agreement

.

due to time constraints placed upon me by work, i can only answer this point

 

It is irrelevent that you can calculate it from the figures, it was parliaments will that the TTC and TAP were incorperated into the agreement( See Consumer Credit Agreement Regulations 1983 Schedule 1)

 

point out that it is to be made clear so that the true cost of borrowing and its constituent parts are made clear to the consumer , who is most likely to be a layperson of little legal experience

 

to quote Lombard tricity Finance and Paton it is a "Childs Handbook" so if the regs say its gotta be there it has to be there

 

furthermore, how many people carry a calculator to a place when you are going to sign up for finance? not many id guess it is a very bad point the Barrister makes

[web2dude]

The following might help:

 

OFT Rulings - Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 2004 sections: 9.3, 9.4, 9.5 & 9.6which further clarifies their view

 

 

OFT Rulings - Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 2004

9.3 What if PPI is financed by credit?

 

If PPI is linked to a credit agreement, and is to be financed as part of that agreement, there are effectively two credit agreements – one for the principal credit and another to finance the PPI.

 

The credit financing the PPI will generally be a debtor-creditor-supplier (d-c-s) agreement within s12(b) CCA. If the principal credit agreement is also d-c-s within s12(b) there will be a single credit agreement for the purposes of the Act as they are in the same statutory category.

 

If however the principal credit agreement is debtor-creditor (d-c), or d-c-s within s12(a) or ©, there will be a multiple agreement for the purposes of s18 CCA – see Q9.4.

The consumer should always have the option of paying for PPI by cash, rather than credit. This applies even if the PPI is mandatory. A cash price should therefore be shown for PPI in all cases.

 

9.4 How should a multiple agreement with PPI be categorised?

 

In the OFT’s view, where PPI is to be financed by credit under the principal agreement, and falls within Reg 2 (a) – see Q9.10 – there will generally be a ‘unitary multi-part’ agreement, see Q2.23. This is irrespective of whether the PPI is mandatory or optional. The same also applies in the OFT’s view to contracts of shortfall insurance falling within Reg 2 (b), see Q2.25.

 

In other cases, the categorisation of a multiple agreement will depend upon the facts of each case – see Q2.21.

 

9.5 How should such agreements be documented?

 

In the OFT’s view, a ‘unitary multi-part’ agreement should be documented as though it were a single agreement but including under each sub-heading all required information and statements applicable to the individual ‘part agreements’ – see Q2.28.

 

Office of Fair Trading Consumer Credit (Agreements etc) Regs draft FAQs 98

Where Reg 2(9) applies, the agreements may be documented with a common heading and signature box and statements of protection and remedies – see Q9.12.

 

In the OFT’s view, financial and related particulars and other information should be shown both separately and together – see Q2.30. It should be made clear which information applies to the agreement as a whole and which to each ‘part agreement’ – see Q2.32. Where information is common to the agreements, see Q2.29.

 

9.6 What does this mean for PPI?

 

In the OFT’s view, where there is a ‘unitary multi-part’ agreement (see Q9.4) it is necessary to show financial and related particulars and other information both separately and together – see Q9.5.

 

This means that the financial and related particulars for the PPI credit should be stated separately from those for the principal credit agreement, but should also be shown in an aggregated form – see Q2.32.

 

The particulars would include the amount of credit and the cash price for the PPI. They would also include a description of the PPI, the timing and amounts of repayments and the total amount payable (where applicable). See also chapters 3 and 4.

 

 

Separate repayment terms for the two agreements and repayment terms are prescribed terms in Schedule 6 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983

 

Schedule 6 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983

schedule 6 column 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1553) and are inter alia:

A term stating the credit limit or the manner in which it will be determined or that there is no credit limit, a term stating the rate of any interest on the credit to be provided under the agreement and a term stating how the debtor is to discharge his obligations under the agreement to make the repayments, which may be expressed by reference to a combination of any of the following—

 

1.Number of repayments;

2.Amount of repayments;

3.Frequency and timing of repayments;

4.Dates of repayments;

5.The manner in which any of the above may be determined; or in any other way, and any power of the creditor to vary what is payable

 

Best of luck!

[e_inspired]

It feels good when you can through a few swerve balls in there mate and well done, however, like you say it is just a matter of time now !

 

I have been made an offer which is very close to the claim figure however, does not have the amount of legal fees and expenses that they would be claiming if a judgement was made...

 

Am in two minds, whether to just accept or to make a counter offer....

 

Counter offer, don't be forced to pay more than you can afford cos if you can't keep to the agreement you will be toasted. In my case I need to have the default removed... we settled on a figure of £5000 but they refuse to remove the default, hopefully they might reconsider cos even though it seems they have the upper hand at the moment, in my particular circumstances it really could go either way.