Mis-sold Economy 7 Tariff by British Gas

[Stillborn Crisps]

My mate's just given British Gas an Electricity meter reading and they now reckon he's £150 short on payments (he'd been paying £15 month by DD based on estimation).

 

When he questioned how a single, working person could run up such a high bill in 1 year they said it's because he's on Economy 7 (where it's cheaper for 7 the hours through the night but more expensive during the day (compared to their normal tariff)).

 

When he opened the account with them (August 2006) he never asked to be put on Economy 7 and they didn't mention it either. It seems they took it upon themselves. It's meant for people who run storage heaters and electric water heaters through the night, but he has neither of these, all his heating is from gas. It seems obvious to me a customer in his situation wouldn't request it.

 

Does anyone think it's possible to get a refund in the extra money he has been charged for electricity whilst on an innapropriate tariff? Can British Gas be accused of mis-selling a product, or being underhand in their billing?

 

I'm thinking they may say "your Economy 7 tariff was printed on your bill so you should have said sooner" to get out of refunding - and I can't think of an argument against that. Any ideas?

 

Advice please!

[buzby]

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[buzby]

They cannot 'put you on it', you either have a white meter or you do not. It isn't an option you can select, he'll have a meter that supplied both a peak and off peak set of readings, along with a time clock that switches between the two. If he doesn't have this, then he cannot be on this tariff.

[Stillborn Crisps]

Thanks Buzby... you do seem to know a lot about everything.

 

Maybe my friend does have this type of meter - if so it was there when he moved in (Aug 06, same time as the account with British Gas started). But the previous owner had had radiators and the gas boiler installed years ago (the system's at least 5 years old, if not more).

 

When my mate gave BG the reading last week and discovered why he was being charged more they switched him immediately onto the normal tariff, there and then over the phone.

 

So, the question remains, is there any claimback from British Gas? They opened a brand new account but failed to mention it was Economy 7. It isn't the sort of thing you ask for when opening an account unless you specifically want it, so I'm not sure it's my mate's responsibilty to check he wasn't on anything other than a normal tariff.

 

More wise words please.....

[Weird Al Yankovic]

I've switched suppliers several times and the supplier is able to tell if they can supply you depending on info Transco has about your property.

 

I gather they are able to tell the difference on how you can be supplied. It was explained to me over the phone but it seemed very technical.

 

Anyway, I had Economy7 at my house but I had it taken out for gas central heating, therefore, Economy7 is now not an option for me.

 

I cannot see how somebody could be on an Economy7 tariff just by mistake.

[mree]

I've had many conversations about this with customers at work - if an economy 7 meter was at the property, there will have been night storage heaters there at some point. Whoever removed them and changed to gas central heating should have arranged to have the meter changed, but didn't. BG have no way of knowing if someone's changed their heating, they rely on the owner/tenant calling and requesting a meter change. Much as I hate to stick up for BG, if this is the case then it's not their fault, they can only act on information they've received and they've done nothing wrong. Your friend will be liable for the bill (£15 a month is ridiculously low anyway).

 

However, it sounds like your friend doesn't actually have an economy 7 meter, as if this is what was at the property then there is no way BG would have been able to change the tariff over the phone. It may be that they've had the meter on record as the wrong type, or that someone's simply punched in the wrong tariff code somewhere down the line. If this is the case, they will be able to easily work out what his bill should have been over the period in question, and rebill him correctly.

 

 

 

 

Please click my scales if I've been helpful

[buzby]

I retained my 'White Meter' (as it is called in Scotland) as the half-price electricity in the period 2330-0830 is a worthwhile saving, even when countered with the (slightly) higher daytime rate. We shower and do the laundry overnight, and as a result are some 10% better off!

[patdavies]

It may be that they've had the meter on record as the wrong type, or that someone's simply punched in the wrong tariff code somewhere down the line. If this is the case, they will be able to easily work out what his bill should have been over the period in question, and rebill him correctly.

 

Then how will they have dome the meter readings - Economy 7 requires two figures for consumption?

[patdavies]

I retained my 'White Meter' (as it is called in Scotland) as the half-price electricity in the period 2330-0830 is a worthwhile saving, even when countered with the (slightly) higher daytime rate. We shower and do the laundry overnight, and as a result are some 10% better off!

 

Although we had gas central heating, we had one fitted in order to do laundry/drying/dishwasher overnight. In fact, we deliberately chose 'cold-fill only' machines to take advantage of the cheaper water heating

 

As for you, it saved us money

[Stillborn Crisps]

Mree - It is an Economy 7 meter, and yes, the property more than likely had storage heaters at some point. But BG did switch him over to a normal tariff over the phone. The woman he spoke to thought he might need the meter changing, but enquired and came back on the phone and said he didn't.

 

I suppose BG can't be blamed for not knowing, but in this day and age of multiple suppliers begging you to switch I'm thinking a 'gesture of goodwill' (ie refund of the difference in rates) might persuede my mate to stay with them. Hopefully they'll get such a message.

 

BTW £15 a month isn't ridiculously low for a single person who's at work 12 hours a day with low energy appliances/bulbs, nothing left on standby etc... I pay a similar amount too and my place is actually bigger than his.

 

Pat - alas, my mate didn't even know he was on E7 so any advantage to be gained by using the washing machine at night would've been just by fluke if he was staying up late. Ho hum.

[Stillborn Crisps]

UPDATE!!

 

British Gas have backed down, coughed up and apologised!!! Big up BG!

 

After the above discussion I helped my mate to write a letter explaining the situation, and asking for a refund (of the difference between the E7 tariff paid and the normal tariff which should have been applied), plus to wipe the 3 months £15 direct debit payment they were now asking for as a lump sum after they cancelled it for no reason.

 

We also mentioned that 'Economy 7' was not mentioned anywhere on the bill so there was know way of knowing what the tariff was. And to top it off we said their level of service was a disgrace, pointed out there were many other suppliers out there vying for customers, and gave them 14 days to reply and pay up.

 

On the 14th day they phoned my mate to appologise, and said they'd wipe the 3 x £15 payments and would work out how much to credit him back for the Economy 7 blunder and credit it to the account.

 

And lo and behold when the latest bill came he's now actually about £8 in credit!

 

Thanks for the advice everyone - I thought this was really pushing things a bit, but it seems BG actually do care about/respect a few of their customers somewhat.

[MarshmallowMan]

Not sure if I should start a new thread but my problem is exactly the same as above. I've just got off the phone to nPower who have informed me that we are in fact on an Economy 7 tariff. We have been there 5 months and haven't received a bill in that time, however we have been paying £15 a month each for elec and gas (pretty low I know but that's what they 'recommended' when we moved in). At no stage were we informed of the nature of the tariff we were on - we've probably used about 5% of our electricity between 12am and 7am in the past five months! We gave a meter reading when we moved in which had 'low' and normal' on it but that meant nothing to us, neither me nor my fiance have ever heard of Economy 7. I'm Irish and I've had tariffs in Ireland where you pay a different rate between 6am and 6pm (peak) and 6pm and 6am (off-peak) so I assumed the meter reflected this. Surely nPower have an obligation on the contract they sent 5 months ago to inform us of the nature of the tariff we were on? Our bill is going to sent to us in 7-10days and it's going to be bloody massive, and I really feel this is unfair. We always pay all our bills on time but surely we have some sort of comebak on this?? Can we ask for our bill to be backdated to reflect a standard tariff? At least if we had known at the start, we could have tried to change the way we use energy!!!! Please help....

[buzby]

You will have at some point signed a contract for the supply of utilities - since your property had an Economy 7 meter, this is the tariff you would be put on. There is no element of choice, as it is up to you to check the tariffs and advise them if you wish the meter swapped.

 

I had a white meter in Dublin from the ESB, using a time clock and a meter with twin rows of digits, so the system there is as the one operated here. Clearly if you are not making use of the low cost power at all, then it will be more expensive for you, but the responsibility is for the customer to know and arrange the change.

[MarshmallowMan]

Hi Buzby,

 

Thanks for your quick reply.

 

Your point about customer responsibility is a fair one, however, I'm 32 years of age and I have renated in probably over 20 different residences in that time, yet I've never been aware of, nor been on a tariff such as Economy 7. When you say 'white' meter I don't know if you are referring to the actual colour or is this some sort of term for the type of meter? Our meter is black in colour, has a 'low' and 'norm' reading but there is no clock housed anywhere. There is two other non-descript black boxes of similar sizes but these look like they are fuse boxes.

 

I have never had an issue with the tariff I have been on in all my years of renting so I had no idea that we were on such a different tariff to any previous.

Npower's letter confirming our contract 5 months ago state we were on tariff MIDE 1PY (something like that) which I searched for an explanation of on their website but to no avail, I had similar luck when i Googled said tariff. I tried phoning nPower but everytime I did I was on hold for at least 30minutes before giving up.

 

I realise we are going to have to pay through the nose for this but, considering this type of tariff requires significantly different type of energy use (setting all appliances to work at night, etc.), nPower should attempt to advise NEW customers of this fact. For that matter, our bloody landlord should have told us too -surely he was aware. From a strictly legal point of view Buzby, I suppose you are right and we will just have to pay whatever the bill is and put it down to experience, but I'm so annoyed as even a small sentence explaining this would have saved us a fortune. The cynic in me also realises that nPower are making a tidy sum from people such as me.....I'm going to contest it in any case as I feel we should have had some notification of this. Our energy usage will back up the fact that we were 'in the dark'.

 

Thanks all the same,

MM

[buzby]

Sorry - it's all to do with marketing. In Scotland it is called 'White Mwter' as the meter usually had a white shroud, in England & Wales it was called 'Economy 7'. You should actually get more than 7 hours, I recieve 8.5hrs each night.

 

Your argument is a weak one, as if successful folk could complain they shouldn't pay council tax because you weren't specifically told this would be payable (there is no CT in Dublin).

 

We removed our own storage radiators and went to gas, and the meter remained. Now, this was my choice, and I was fully aware that my consumption would not be as high overnight, but you still had the benefit that consumption overnight was/will be charged at the correct rate. Expecting the supplier to take an interest would be a fallacy, as half of them cannot bill accurately at the best of times!

 

Good luck, but I do think you'll find that you don't have a good answer when they ask why didn;t you query the tariff you were on at the start?

 

[loobyloo7919]

Hello

We are about to move in to a place with Economy 7 and want to convert it to gas central heating. Does anyone know an approximate cost for this?

[zazen.warrior]

Looby if you start a new thread with your question in the header I think you will get a response. Sorry I don't know the answer.

[buzby]

You need to know the boiler type, and the number of radiators, plus the relevant quantity of pipework. £2,200 is a rough ballpark for 5 radiators.

[Stillborn Crisps]

MarshmallowMan, although Buzby is technically correct, I think if you play it as 'we were never told' (including lack of labelling) and point out how many other suppliers want your business, there's a strong chance you could get them to overlook that bill as a gesture of goodwill.

 

Do you have storage heaters in the house? If no I'd think it'd be even more fair for you to assume you were on standard electricity. How is your water heated, and how old's the house?

 

In my mate's case the whole place was converted to a gas boiler system years before he moved in, the previous occupier was elderly and probably didn't understand what Economy 7 was so didn't realise to switch back.

 

When you say they recommended you pay £15 a month, how did they come to that sum, did they ask lifestyle questions, and did they say £15 or you? I think this could be important in winning your argument.

 

I can try and dig out the letter we used so you can use it as a guide, if you wanted to pursue it.

Edited October 27, 2009 by Stillborn Crisps

[mattlamb]

In my experience as a meter reader, lots of peple are on the E7 tariff that shouldn;t be.

PS: Really a utility company does not have to remove an E7 meter in order for someone to go on to the single price tariff. They can just bill both readings at the same price. I know EOn often do this - although some companies seem to have an issue about this and say the meter must be changed (for some bizarre reason).

[indebtstudent]

Re

 

"The woman he spoke to thought he might need the meter changing, but enquired and came back on the phone and said he didn't."

 

and

 

"PS: Really a utility company does not have to remove an E7 meter in order for someone to go on to the single price tariff. They can just bill both readings at the same price. I know EOn often do this - although some companies seem to have an issue about this and say the meter must be changed (for some bizarre reason)."

 

The reason for this is whilst it PERFECTLY possible to bill on a standard tariff with a two rate meter there is an issue if the customer changes supplier. The new supplier will take it over as economy seven, unless the customer is on the ball they would be back to square one.

 

Once the meter is exchanged this cannot happen.

 

I have seen a few cases where people, through being persistant, have had the account back-billed on the standard rate. My instinct is to go with Buzby on this one.

 

I appreciate many people are not familiar with the Economy7 tariff but on the other hand if I'm not on the best tariff on the market whos fault is it?

 

Economy seven IS well known, I have people asking me regularly if it will save them money. The answer is usually no, unless you use more than 30% of your electricity in the E7 hours you won't benefit.

 

I suppose the thing to stress if you are going for re-billing is they have all the info to recalculate this. PS if its rented you may need to check with the landlord if the meter can be changed though I can't see why they would object.

[buzby]

The issue is to to with the billing systems - some firms cannot cope with aggregating two disparate readings on a single tariff. I'm aware of a user being notionally switched to a 3-phase meter account (which has the capability to accept 3 readings to calculate the bill) where the standard domestic tariff only accepted a single reading.

 

Whether the meter needs swapped really depends on the supplier you have (and their computer system).

[isthenextlifebetter]

we moved in august, into a property with storage heaters and a E7 meter but BGas put us on a non-E7 tarrif!

 

result - £750 bill

 

theyve backdated our E7 tarrif and reduced bill by £177

[buzby]

Since you will have had to give them TWO readings, surely they billed one of them as 'Low'....? Or did they ignore the second readings?

[isthenextlifebetter]

no, they add em together (it seems) and charged us a tarrif with "1st [email protected] and rest at 9.879p"

 

i hate storage heaters, switched em off cos when we first put em on (evening) they started warming up!, gonna switch em on when E7 night tariff starts