Woolwich But Now Barclays????

[lizzy40]

This isn't a bank charge question although its to do with the banking industry.

 

I was a Woolwich customer but a month or so ago all Woolwich account holders were transfered over to Barclays. I didn't realise that banks procedures differ so much and how changing over to Barclays would make life so much harder for me.

 

One of the problems is for example with the Woolwich if I had a direct debit coming out of my account and there wasn't enough money in my bank to cover it I could go along to my local branch and pay the money in the same day and my direct debit payment would still go through but with Barclays its different if I did the same thing the debit won't go through as they pay out all the debits first before the credits are credited to my account surely I should have to the close of business that day? Plus you get a £35 charge put on the account on the same day this doesn't seem fair?

 

When I sign a form to pay my bills by direct debit it doesn't say they will debit my account at 9am they just say the date it will be taken.

 

Has this happened to anyone else - and besides changing my account is there anything I can do?

[splashin]

Hi,

This could be because Barclays are one of the top banks. Apparently there are only four major banks, (I'm not certain who they are) then all the other banks have to trade through them. I'm with Halifax and my friend is with NatWest, we get paid on the same day by the same company and my friends money goes in to her account at midnight, mine goes in around 4-4.30am.

Splashin

[CAGisforME]

Firstly, when your account was changed from Woolwich Terms and Conditions to Barclays Terms and Conditions, did you receive them in writing?

 

Having worked for Barclays I can tell you:

 

Barclays Terms and Conditions state that the money for Direct Debits etc must be in the account the day BEFORE the debit comes out. These debits are processed automatically at some time between midnight and 1.30am of the day they are due.

 

If the payment is due on the Monday, the money to cover it must be in on the Friday.

 

It's got nothing to do with Barclays being part of the supposed "Big 4" it's simply their Terms and Conditions.

 

 

Is there anything you can do?

 

Well, you could try telephoning Barclays and asking for the charge back, telling them that this happened because you weren't aware of the change in Ts and Cs now that your account has been moved to them from Woolwich.

 

If you haven't been charged much in the past few months and have kept the account in good standing there's a fair to middling chance you will get it back on this occasion.

 

However, they MAY say that as you were sent the Terms and Conditions in writing on x date (if indeed you were) then they are at liberty to charge as the account didn't have sufficient funds to cover the DD.

 

I'm not saying I agree with them, or that they are right to charge you, I'm just second guessing from a few years experience what it's likely they will say, but it's certainly worth trying.

 

Good Luck

[CAGisforME]

Also, I've just had a thought.....

 

If you get paid straight in to your account and you have DDs etc that normally go out the same day, you will need to ask Barclays to change Standing Orders etc to the next working day and ask the Originators of the Direct Debits to change their request dates.

 

It might also be worth getting Online Banking. That way you can check your account daily in the comfort of your own home or office and can ensure that everything is running smoothly.

 

I've just set up a Standing Order on my online banking and it states:

 

You must have enough cleared funds in your account on the working day before the payment is due or your standing order will not be paid.

 

Before I press "confirm", so it's not something they are trying to "hide".

 

I hope you can get this sorted.

[lizzy40]

Thanks everyone.

 

I have taken all comments on board.

 

I have been refunded for the charge that wasn't too much of a problem as Barclays could see I had put the money in to cover my debit the same day.

 

I have always managed my Woolwich account knowing if I haven't got enough money in their then I can rectify that on the same day, what is so infuriating is I didn't ask to change to a Barclays account I had no choice.

 

I do on line banking thats how I always no when I need to put money into my account but with direct debits I can't always be 100% certain when they are coming out; It wouldn't be an issue if I had enough funds in my account to cover everything that may or might go out but at this moment in time it isn't the case and having till the close of business is a great help to me. We aren't all fortunate in that way!

 

I don't think I did receive the terms and conditions but if I did I probably thought it would be the same as Woolwich. Will check...

 

Thanks again....

[CAGisforME]

Well I'm pleased you got the charge back!

 

From experience I will tell you that if this happens again it may well not be so easy to get a refund though.

 

Of course I understand that the previous Ts and Cs you were under suited your life-style better, in that you could nip down to bank and pay in money if necessary on the same business day as the debit, however this will not be the case with Barclays.

 

I guess it comes down to planning. On the online banking site you can go into "all payment options" and have a route around your Direct Debits to see what day of the month they normally go out, that way, hopefully, ensuring that you're always covered. The other option of course would be to change to paying by Standing Order and thereby controlling the date the money goes out yourself when you set them up.

 

Very pleased you have the refund.

 

If you don't have the Ts and Cs of the new account, I would request some from Barclays and have a read through to make sure there aren't too many differences from what you are used to.

 

[sequenci]

who are the big four?

 

HSBC

Lloyds

Barclays

Royal Bank of Scotland/Natwest

Halifax

 

?

 

who is the odd one out?

[splashin]

The Beatles

 

Splashin

[CAGisforME]

Well, the "old" big four were HSBC (previously Midland), Barclays, Natwest and Lloyds.

 

Of course that's no longer the case as the Hong King and Shangai took over Midland, Natwest are now part of Royal Bank of Scotland (or vice versa, I must learn to keep up!), Lloyds and TSB are now one and the same, Barclays took over the woolwich and now Halifax are HalifaxBos (Bank of Scotland) it's all changing, as I'm sure you know sequenci

 

and will no doubt continue to change, along with Abbey (Santander), Barclays proposed takeover of ABN etc etc etc.

 

Hence I put the "Big 4" in inverted comma's, they long since ceased to exist!

 

[Weird Al Yankovic]

who are the big four?

 

 

Liverpool

Chelsea

Arsenal

 

and Nottingham Forest.

[CAGisforME]

Weird Al,

 

i know you are famous for your sense of humour, but you seemed to have woefully mis-spelt West Ham United.

 

[lizzy40]

Thanks Cagisforme I will change all my direct debit payments into standing orders that way I will have more control to as and when they go out however it will take more organization and I think most companys prefer direct debit payments. I will look through all my option on my internet banking and see how I can be in more control.

 

Yes your right Woolwich's proceedures did suit my life-style and my new account will take more planning.

 

What sort of notice does Barclays need to change standing order payment dates. Example: can I change them the same day they are due out - are standing order payments taken from my account as early as direct debits?

 

Thanks for your help and explanning the other options I can consider...

I wish Barclays had been this helpful.

 

 

PS

It would be nice to see West Ham in the top four.

[CAGisforME]

If you need to change a Standing Order payment date it SHOULD be done the day before lizzy.

 

ALL debits, unless over the counter, ATM or card payments, are taken in the early hours of the morning.

 

However, if you absolutely need to you can stop an STO going out on the same day. The way to do this is to call telephone banking, tell them you need to recall the debit immediately and cancel the STO. Then you can re-start the STO the following day, either with the person on the 'phone or online after you've recalled the debit.

 

Of course most organisations prefer DDs! That way THEY control when they remove the money, and THEY control how much they request (for instance if you've missed a payment and they want two this month).

 

Standing Orders give YOU the control.

 

You will need Sortcode and Account number for each company you pay regularly. Online you can cancel your DDs, however I'd recommend ringing the bank to cancel them, that way you have an audit trail, and request a STOP on the DDs to ensure none of the Companies "accidentally" request the money next month.

 

Once each DD is cancelled simply set up a STO to each one. You do this by choosing a start date for the first payment and then what date you want the money to be sent every month forthwith.

 

You are then also given an option to send the money x number of times, for x number of months or "until further notice".

 

You can change the date and the amount that is sent, online, whenever you want, right up until the day before it's due.

 

Obviously if the money is due to go on a Monday the funds will need to be there on the Friday.

 

As a retired Barclays staff member I wish Barclays had been more helpful too.

 

However, hopefully you are now armed with everything you need to get planning and have the account work for you as you need it to.

 

If there are any more questions, feel free to ask. I'll do my best to help.

 

 

PS

 

Seeing WHU back in the top four is about as likely as the banks WILLINGLY turning over and getting their bellies tickled and just handing back the money they've been taking of their customers for years.

[lizzy40]

Cagisforme you have been very helpful lets hope I can make my account work for me!!!

 

Hopefully this thread has helped other Woolwich customers with my kind of life-style.

 

Thanks again.....

[lizzy40]

CAGisforME, I have checked my terms and conditions.

 

On reading section 4. Headed

CREDITS TO AND PAYMENTS OUT OF YOUR ACCOUNT

4.1, If with receive instructions and credits for an account before the relevant cut-off time on any working day we will process them on that day or on the date specified in your instructions. Instructions and credits received after the cut-off time for a non working day will be processed on the next working day. The cut-off time is the latest time each day that we can make payments or transfers from your account. We will tell you the cut-off times applicable to telephone and computer instructions. Branch cut off times vary and are displayed in each branch.

 

I'm assume the cut-off time being close of business?

 

Are direct debits included as a payments out of the account.

To me this reads that anything going though the account will be covered by the close of business that day. Have I mis-interpreted this term?

[CAGisforME]

Well, it's not like it's not easy to misinterpret it is it? Plain Englaish award to Barclays - NOT!!

 

The cut off time actually depends on what the item is.

 

Instructions (presumably meaning DD mandates and Standing Orders etc) are processed on the working day they are dated for. HOWEVER Barclays actually process them at 1.30am in the morning (ish) Automatic credits ie wages payments etc are processed at the same time.

 

However Counter Credits (ie when you go to the bank branch to pay in) and online credits (ie when you transfer money from one Barclays account to the other) are processed "as and when" and, as it states, some branches differ. NORMALLY it's 3.30pm-4pm and any credits after that time will be processed the following working day. Although I believe it's 5pm on-line, I'd need to check to be sure.

 

What they have very carefully omitted to say is that the DEBITS processed at 1.30am could well put you over-drawn or cause a payment to bounce and yet a CREDIT paid in that same working day will NOT cover it. That's why they state that the account has to have enough in it the working day previously.

 

I obviously haven't got a full list of Ts and Cs here, and can't remember off-hand if this is stated anywhere else. It would be best to check, rather than taking this one piece of info from them, to the exclusion of the rest of them.

 

I, as staff, always just accepted the way I've explained it to you as the way it works. I never questioned it. Perhaps I should have.

 

If you honestly feel that the Ts and Cs don't explain this properly I would always recommend that you COMPLAIN!!! Get someone in the branch to show you where it states in the Ts and Cs that the money has to be in the previous working day. See if they can find it!

 

My Ts and Cs for my staff account are different to an "ordinary" account, so therefore what I have here will not tally with yours anyway.

 

It's obviously really easy to misinterpret the "legalese" way the Ts and Cs are written. I'd personally be putting a staff member on the "hop" and getting them to show you exactly how, before I explained it to you, you were supposed to know this, from the literature they have sent you.

 

[lizzy40]

I'm sure they mean to make the terms and conditions confusing I have just come accross another section in the T&C which covers what Barclays have done or are allowed to do.

 

This is still under the heading

CREDITS TO AND PAYMENTS OUT OF YOUR ACCOUNT.

section 4.9

We May refuse to make any payment if you do not have enough money on the account at the close of the working day before the payment is due to be made. In deciding whether you have enough money we take account of any authorised card transactions, any overdraft limit, any cheques we are treating as cleared, any instructions to make payments and regular payments which have not yet been paid from your account. We may tell you if you can make payments from your account against cheques which are not cleared. We do not have to take account of regular credits or amounts received after we have decided not to make the payment.

 

Although it doesn't state a time that DD comes out it clearly states the money must be in the account the day before to cover DD tranactions, however I still think this is unfair.

[CAGisforME]

Hi again Lizzy,

 

As I've already said, I did think that this would be mentioned somewhere and it is exactly as I described it to you.

 

The reason that they use the word "may" is because some customer have an "Authorised Unclear Limit" whereby if they pay a cheque in it doesn't need to have cleared before they can draw on it (normally up to a limit of £1,000). I should stress this is not ALL customer, just SOME and you would need to ask the bank themselves whether you have this facility.

 

Other than that, whether you think it's fair or not, I was right in thinking it would be buried in the Ts and Cs somewhere.

 

Hey, at least you know now and can make an informed decision as to whether you want to continue to bank with them now.

[HSBCrusher]

Thanks Cagisforme I will change all my direct debit payments into standing orders that way I will have more control to as and when they go out

this is excellent advice folks... as the green worm says.. "direct debits are the work of the devil"

[lizzy40]

Yes your quite right at least I know and hopfully can avoid the same situation again.

 

Thanks very much for all your help.

[demon_x_slash]

Ooh, the move has infuriated me too. My old account, even though it was a Savings account, had a chip in it, and I could use it at any LINK ATM because of this. Barclays took over and sent me a card with no chip - their Savings accounts don't have the chip facility, apparently. This means that whenever I need money, I have to hunt down a Barclays ATM to withdraw it.

 

They also charge £10 for printing out a simple cheque over the counter for those people unfortunate enough not to have a chequebook with their transferred account. It literally gobsmacked me when I was informed of this.

 

The teller's solution to these issues? Open a current account with them. Tell them very firmly that I already have one with another bank. Teller gets pushy and starts listing all the benefits of a current account with Barclays. Grrrrrr...

 

As lizzy40 says, a lot of it's the indignation at having to switch and being squeezed into these new T&Cs and different ways of operating...

[lizzy40]

Sorry Demon x Slash to hear you have also been finding the switch infuriating - I did think I cant be the only person having these problems I'm sure many more Woolwich customer are not happy. I work in a shop and the other day had to take a transaction from a x Woolwich customer and they didn't have a chip in their card, they where shocked they couldn't use their card.

 

I'm just so fed up with it all, we can't do anything about it a part from change banks....

 

More hassle