Please help - Overseas and Overwhelmed

[uktc8930]

I dont really know where to start sorting out the mess I'm in so I'll giove a succont overview and hopefully one of you kind posters will give me a clue.

 

In March my partner was transferred overseas with his company (Canada)I sold up our belongings and joined him a month ago, with our 3-year old daughter. In the UK we both had good jobs, had made silly decisions and had a large amount owing on credit cards and a loan. The idea was to reduce these with the proceeds from our house but we had to pay earl repayment fees on the mortgage and lost money on the car, and moving was more expensive than we thought so we only had anough left over for paying fees on our house over here.

 

To make matters worse the job I was due to get has fallen through - meaning my partner is trying to pay for everything out of his salary, including the credit cards/loan in the UK - a quick look at our spreadsheet shows us that we are going sink.

 

Yesterday we contacted our creditors and explained the situation, they have said that there is nothing they will do, no payment holiday or dropped interest (we had hoped they would do this whilst I found another job) - they will only help if we dont make any further payments and then they will enforce the agreement, and at that point we can get an official debt manager to make a statement on our behalf and then they will deal with it

 

I'm besides myself with worry - what can they do, what can we do to try and keep our good credit history, what if they take us to court and we are Canada and we cant turn up?

 

I don't want to come overseas dropping all my debt and doing a runner - we have been honest, provided contact details in canada, and morally we do wnt to pay our debts clear - we just need some support whilst we get back on track.

 

Any ideas on what I should be doing in order to defend myself and ensure I don't go down financially

 

Please, please help

[rory32]

Is your move to Canada permanent or temporary?

[42man]

To be honest I can't see them taking you to court in Canada as it will prove to be excessively expensive for them unless some of them have overseas subsidiaries of course....and they can't expect you to travel to the UK to attend a court hearing. You say you joined your partner 1 month ago ? are you both on temporary work visa's or company transfer visa's ? or is this likely to be a permanent move....It might be worth explaining to them your situation and insist that they accept a token payment until your situation improves and maybe even send a CCA request.....Do you have any excessive charges to reclaim back ?

[uktc8930]

Hi, we are on work permits at the moment, renewable every year for 3-years, we are applying for permanent residency (thats another worry - if we have debts or bad credit I dont know how that will affect our perm residenct application)

 

We hope it to be permananet but it may be that we are back in March 2010.

[uktc8930]

Hi, We went through and claimed all of our bank charges for the past 6-years back at the beginning of this year - we got £320.00 across the board between us. I also got all my friends and colleagues to do the same - between them I think they are at early £15k in reclaims - yay! We are in the process of claiming Mortgage Exit admin Fee's as we had 4 mortgages over the passed 6-years to keep rates low - hope that will be paid to us on.

[uktc8930]

BTW - Thanks for the quick responses.

 

I'm going to use some letter templats I have found and request the CCA and then go on to send them a copy of our spreadsheet and advise them we want interest and charges frozen and will make the payments to them on a pro rata basis out of our disposable income -what little there is of it, and that we will review this on a quarterly basis.

 

Can I send a CCA request at the same time as making a reduced payment offer? or does making a reduced payment offer admit liability of the debt making the cca request worthless? If not at same time should it be CCA request first?

 

finding so much out on these forums on how to play things that just want to take the steps in the right order!

[42man]

As far as extending your work permit goes, your credit history doesn't make a difference, as for permanent residency I'm not sure that your immigration status looks into your credit history but more your criminal history.....(I will try and find out) what will help you is to get some sort of Canadian credit history....try expatforum.com

[42man]

A few tips on CCA's NEVER hand sign them, explain that you will only liaise via written correspondence and any phone calls will be regarded as harrassment and will be treated as such - to avoid telephone hassling... (should be interesting for them to send letters back and forth to Canada !!!).....I think it will be interesting to see how many ring Canada too....also do any of your english banks have branches in Canada ?? The more I write the more I feel like you might be making it difficult (but not impossible) to contact them....

[rory32]

The first thing to note is that the UK has a reciprocal agreement with Canada. This means that a UK court can enforce a CCJ using the legal system in Canada.

 

I would therefore treat these debts as if you were still resident in the UK. So the first thing to do is identify if the debt can be enforced. In order to do this you need to send a CCA request located here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html template N. Without a copy of the agreement the debt can not be enforced and they can basically forget about things like CCJ's. It is a good idea not to sign this letter.

 

A point to note is that a creditor can not make you pay more than you can afford, in fact they are legally obliged to accept any reasonable offer you make of repayment. If all you can afford is £1 a month then this is all you offer. There position of not accepting an offer of repayment would be considered unreasonable.

 

Ideally you should not speak to them on the phone and all communication should be in writing (the contents of phone calls can be denied).

[rory32]

Can I send a CCA request at the same time as making a reduced payment offer? or does making a reduced payment offer admit liability of the debt making the cca request worthless? If not at same time should it be CCA request first?

 

Do the CCA request first. This places the account in dispute. No action should be taken on the account while it is in dispute.

[uktc8930]

The more I write the more I feel like you might be making it difficult (but not impossible) to contact them.... ? Dont know what this means?

 

Egg Card, part of citigroup - has divisions in Canada

John Lewis partnership Card - part of HSBC which has divisions in Canada

Skycard - part of barclaycard - unsure

Tescos credit card - royal bank of scotland - dont think has divisions in canada

Northern Rock - pretty sure UK only based

[42man]

Sorry what I meant to say was that by not letting them phone you and only communicating in writing, I can imagine a bank - or debt collection agency (if they get involved) will not relish the prospect of writing letters constantly to Canada and then waiting to get a response from you a number of days later......I wonder if they may transfer any debt information to their Canadian subsidiaries....i'm sure there could possibly be some data protection breach there !!

[uktc8930]

I'm off to send my requests now - Thanks ever so...I'm feeling a little less panicked now - at least I have something to do whilst I'm job hunting too.

 

I'll be back on in a couple of weeks once I start getting the replies - bound to have another mini panic then!

 

BTW - should I make any more payments whilst waiting for their responses, what I can afford, nothing, just leave it? The next batch is due to go out on 28 September and I really dont know that we will have any money to pay them by then.

[42man]

If it was me then I would pay them, when they don't provide your CCA agreements after 12 working days + 2 days grace then they are in default of your request.....that is when I would stop paying them.....when may I ask did you originally take these loans/cards out ?? If it was 10 years plus then it is highly unlikely that they will have the original agreements, (they CANT send you an old application form) IF they send any through to you then post them on here (take off all personal details) and let the experts look at them....

[gizmo111]

Absolutely agree with all the above - don't sign anything try using one of these instead http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/110578-digital-signature-guide.html

[uktc8930]

It was between 4 and 8 years ago so they may have them if they can find them - I will post them onto the site if/when I have them.

 

The issue with signatures etc - is this because the company may take a signature from another document and provide that as the supposed signature for the CCA? or am I getting only ever so lsoghtly paranoid?

[uktc8930]

PS - is there a forum seach icon anywhere on the site? I haven't located it yet but would like to search rather than in and out of each post

[rory32]

The issue with signatures etc - is this because the company may take a signature from another document and provide that as the supposed signature for the CCA?

This has been alledged to have happened in the past. It is better to be safe than sorry.

 

is there a forum seach icon anywhere on the site?

If you look at the blue bar just below the thread title the search function is in the middle of this blue bar. You can either just do a general search or use the drop down option to do a more advanced search.

[rory32]

BTW - should I make any more payments whilst waiting for their responses, what I can afford, nothing, just leave it?

How long does it take for mail to get to the UK from Canada? They have 12 working days after receiving your request to send you a copy of the agreement. After 13 working days they are in default and you can legally withhold all payments on the account until a copy of the agreement is produced.

[sequenci]

The first thing to note is that the UK has a reciprocal agreement with Canada. This means that a UK court can enforce a CCJ using the legal system in Canada.

 

only in the following areas: Alberta, British Columbia, Manitoba, New Brunswick, Newfoundland, North West Territories, Nova Scotia, Ontario, Prince Edward Island, Saskatchewan and the Yukon Territory

 

is that the whole of canada then?!?!

[edinburghbeerbucket]

Hi! I'm in a very similar situation (see this thread). Please let me know how you get on, I'd love to swap stories, hints and tips with you!

[uktc8930]

PM sent

[uktc8930]

Just quick clarification

 

1) They send the CCA within the timeframes - I need to negotiate whatever I can using other letter templates.

 

2) They respond in the timeframes saying they dont have the signed copy of the CCA - which means the debt is unenforceable and I can either a) Deny the debt, cease further payments, have it written off, claim back monies paid - depending on my moral leanings, and have all trace of it removed from my credit history or b) negotiate a reduced payment

 

3) They dont reply within the 12days plus one month - I can report them to Trading Standards and then do as in 2. but what happens if they find my agreement at a later date?

 

4) what if I am making payments by Direct Debit - does this mean because I have signed a DDR that I am acknowledging the debt and created an obligation to pay regardless of a CCA? or is this not relevant because after all they request the money from the DDR and can only do so if there is an enforceable debt, and therefore if they have no enforecable debt the DDR should not have come into efect and they were effectively claiming money under false pretences.

 

I just want to make sure I'm prepared for any next steps.

[rory32]

1) They send the CCA within the timeframes - I need to negotiate whatever I can using other letter templates.

 

Yes.

 

2) They respond in the timeframes saying they dont have the signed copy of the CCA - which means the debt is unenforceable and I can either a) Deny the debt, cease further payments, have it written off, claim back monies paid - depending on my moral leanings, and have all trace of it removed from my credit history or b) negotiate a reduced payment

 

Almost correct. You can't claim back monies paid. Just because an agreement doesn't exist doesn't mean that there was never an agreement.

 

3) They dont reply within the 12days plus one month - I can report them to Trading Standards and then do as in 2. but what happens if they find my agreement at a later date?

 

If they produce an enforceable agreement at a later debt they can enforce the debt again if they haven't written it off or accepted a reduced full and final. That's why it's important to reach closure.

 

4) what if I am making payments by Direct Debit - does this mean because I have signed a DDR that I am acknowledging the debt and created an obligation to pay regardless of a CCA? or is this not relevant because after all they request the money from the DDR and can only do so if there is an enforceable debt, and therefore if they have no enforecable debt the DDR should not have come into efect and they were effectively claiming money under false pretences.

You are not creating an obligation to pay as legally the debt is unenforceable. Having said that why would they produce a copy of the agreement if you continue to pay the debt? Regarding claiming money under false pretences, don't confuse being able to enforce a debt with a debt still existing.

[uktc8930]

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