CCJ Assistance - EGG

[Saint2K]

Hello.

 

I'm managing and running a Debt Management Plan (DMP) for one of my friends and hit upon a little snag today.

 

The story so far ....

 

Friend owes Egg a relatively small balance of £1500 which is in the form of a credit card.

 

Recently changed address, notified Egg of the COA and then sent one further letter stating that he was in financial difficulty and made a pro-rata offer of repayment. All corrospondance was sent by Recorded D

 

Received no corrospondance from Egg or any other DCA, as Moorcroft were involved at one stage recently.

 

On the 22/08/2007 he received a N1 County Court Claim form from Egg obviously requesting the full balance to be settled.

 

We are wondering if there is any legal basis to have this CCJ 'set aside'.

 

Aside from in my opinion not following the civil procedure rules, by trying to avoid Court Action, would it be worth sending a CCA request today, or would the Court view this as being 'dodgey'.

 

Any other ideas would be appreciated .....

[NitrousOxide]

Hi,

From what I've learnt on here you request these under the civil procedures rules.

Basically it means they have to supply them as they are documents you will be relying on.

The CCA would time out on it's own and go beyond defending the N1.

You can also ask for the SAR as well I believe so you can see if charges have been added if they do come up with a CCA.

Don't take my word as gospel as I'm still learning. Hopefully some more knowledgable peeps should be by later.

[Curlyben]

Right then you need to file an acknowledgement of service with the court.

This MUST be done before 4 Sept !!

This will allow you another 14 days to get your defence in place.

 

Then to Egg's solicitors, address should be on the N1, send this:

Edit as needed.

Dear xxxx,

 

I acknowledge receipt of your notice of legal action sent by your company on DATE which was received on DATE.

Please be aware that any proceedings will be extremely vigorously defended and that a counterclaim will be made against Egg Limited. I am unable to respond further at this time, since you have given me inadequate information to investigate the claim. Please note that under the Overriding Objectives, you have a duty to act reasonably at all times.

 

As you are aware, under the pre-action protocols of the Civil Procedure Rules, your letter before action should have included the following information:

4.3 The claimant's letter should —

(a) give sufficient concise details to enable the recipient to understand and investigate the claim without extensive further information;

(b) enclose copies of the essential documents which the claimant relies on;

© ask for a prompt acknowledgement of the letter, followed by a full written response within a reasonable stated period;

(For many claims, a normal reasonable period for a full response may be one month.)

(d) state whether court proceedings will be issued if the full response is not received within the stated period;

(e) identify and ask for copies of any essential documents, not in his possession, which the claimant wishes to see;

(f) state (if this is so) that the claimant wishes to enter into mediation or another alternative method of dispute resolution; and

(g) draw attention to the court's powers to impose sanctions for failure to comply with this practice direction and, if the recipient is likely to be unrepresented, enclose a copy of this practice direction.

I note that your letter failed to enclose copies of the essential documents upon which you will seek to rely, failed to ask for acknowledgement of the letter, failed to ask for a written response within a reasonable period of time, and did not draw attention to the courts powers

to force all parties to comply with the practice direction.

I intend to provide you with a full written response, but as yet I have not got adequate information to investigate your claim.

To enable me to investigate this claim I require specific information regarding the account to be provided forthwith. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

If you fail to disclose this information, I may apply to the court under Part 18 and part 31 of the civil procedure rules.

I will be unable to respond to your claim without this information, and by failing to supply it before starting legal action you would breach the overriding objective of the Civil Procedure Rules.

 

Request for disclosure;

I request that you send me information vital to investigating your claims, including:

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

a. A transcript of all transactions, including charges, fees, interest, repayments and payments and both the original amount of the loan and any repayments made to it the account.

b. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor.

c. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual

intervention in relation to my account formerly held with HFC Bank Ltd.

d. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

e. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

f. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

g. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

h. A genuine copy of any deed of assignment, or proof that you have a legal right to this money.

i. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

j. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

3. Any other documents you will seek to rely upon in court.

4. A copy of your complaints procedure, as required by the Consumer Credit Act 2006.

5. Clarification of the date you acquired the debt, what organisation you acquired it from, their registered office, their company number (if any) and what legal title they had to this debt, and what credit license number they had at the time that the debt was purchased or entered into.

 

Please note, I will respond to your claim in full within 14 days of your providing this information. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, or if you start proceedings without furnishing this information, it will be reported to the Court that you are denying me the opportunity

to settle this matter amicably.

 

Yours Faithfully,

Basically what you are asking for is ALL documents, including the Agreement and transaction breakdown.

 

Once these are received then you can start with a counter/defence in relation to unlawful charges, etc.

[NitrousOxide]

Would it help if he posted up the particulars of claim?

I'm starting to think egg are going straight for the kill on accounts with no CCA and obtaining default judgements.

[Curlyben]

At the moment the POC isn't really relevant, but acknowledging service and sending the letter will give more time for a proper defence.

[Goldlady]

I have successfully had a claim withdrawn - partly using the CCA argument and also by sending a very nasty letter to the original creditor accusing them of breach of civil procedure rules by not giving us notice of intention and ignoring our offer of reduced payments also. I will let you have copies of letters if you need them. Only thing is I am not sure exactly why they did withdraw as the CCA was better than some I have received.

[NitrousOxide]

At the moment the POC isn't really relevant, but acknowledging service and sending the letter will give more time for a proper defence.

I didn't spot that! Only 5 days left.

[Curlyben]

Give this excellent thread a read: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/108467-basic-introduction-consumer-credit.html#

 

You MUST act quickly as time is currently against you.

[sequenci]

is there a valid defence possible?

 

how old is the egg agreement?

[tomterm8]

Did they send you a default notice?

 

Curly, that letter is a good one, but need only be sent BEFORE legal action takes place. If they've issued a county court claim, you need this one:

 

(you should send it special delivery & a seperate credit agreement request, special delivery. Don't sign either one)

 

 

In the XXXX County Court

Claimant -v- (YOUR NAME)

Claim Number: (CLAIM NUMBER)

 

 

Dear XXX

 

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

 

I have received a recent court claim from your organisation. In order to file a defence and counter claim I require some information. Given that this matter is now the subject of legal proceedings, you are obliged to disclose under the Civil Procedure Rules, the information and documents detailed below.

 

The information must be furnished within fourteen days of the receipt of this letter. If you fail to comply, this will be reported to the Court, a copy of this letter will be provided as evidence to the same and an Order enforcing your compliance will be sought.

 

1. A true copy of the executed credit agreement and any terms and conditions that applied to the account at the time of default and at the time the account was opened.

2. All records you hold on me relevant to this case, including but not limited to:

 

a. Transcriptions of all telephone conversations recorded and any notes made in relation to telephone conversations by your company, or by any previous creditor

b. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with Barclaycard.

c. True copies of any notice of assignment and/or default notice or enforcement notice that you or the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

d.Documents relating to any insurance added to the account, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date it was added and deleted (if applicable).

e. Details of any collection charge added to the account; specifically, the date it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was calculated, and what the charge covers.

f. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

g. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

h. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

i. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement.

 

3. Any other documents you seek to rely on in court.

 

 

I will require this information within the next fourteen days. I must advise you that if the information is not forthcoming, it will be reported to the Court that you are trying to frustrate proceedings and denying me the opportunity to file a defence and counter claim.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

XXXX (type, don't sign).

[Saint2K]

Wow, I really appreciate all the replies. This is a good learning experience for me as I also manage my own DMP and may myself be faced with a claim one day.

 

Right, so firstly I need to acknowledge the claim and I do this by completing a section of the claim form and sending it to the Court?

 

The current Court Centre dealing with the claim is Northamptons Bulk Processing Centre. Is it worth getting this changed to my friends local County Court, or is that not relevant?

 

The POC (Particulars of Claim) from Egg is very short and just basically says failed to meet contractual repayments. My friend did receive a default notice to the poster who asked.

 

He sent them an offer of pro-rata repayment about three weeks ago, and this claim was the first thing he got back from Egg. Quite harsh if you ask me!

 

Anyway, I see there are two excellent letters, which one should I use? Also, just to confirm, I send this letter to Egg, or Nelsons (The address on the claim form where it says to send all corrospondance).

 

Does the Court not require a copy of this letter?

 

Thanks

[tomterm8]

Wow, I really appreciate all the replies. This is a good learning experience for me as I also manage my own DMP and may myself be faced with a claim one day.

 

Right, so firstly I need to acknowledge the claim and I do this by completing a section of the claim form and sending it to the Court?

 

Doing it online via MCOL is easiest

 

The current Court Centre dealing with the claim is Northamptons Bulk Processing Centre. Is it worth getting this changed to my friends local County Court, or is that not relevant?

 

Not relevant. The court will do this automatically before any hearing.

 

Anyway, I see there are two excellent letters, which one should I use?

 

Thanks. I wrote both, and I would suggest using the second one.

Also, just to confirm, I send this letter to Egg, or Nelsons (The address on the claim form where it says to send all corrospondance).

 

The address on the claim form.

Does the Court not require a copy of this letter?

 

Not at this stage.

 

Thanks

 

The question from sequenci is a good one. Are there any legitimate reasons to defend the claim? e.g. late payment charges etc.

 

I find egg is reasonably good at producing credit agreements, although these agreements are only borderline enforceable. It would be best if you had a second plan, just in case.

[Saint2K]

Right.

 

I'm just using MCOL, do we intend to defend all or part of this claim?

 

Secondly, yes, I believe the balance may include some unlawful penalty charges and therefore we could also use this as a partial defence. However, with the current stay of play between the banks and OFT, can we still use bank charges as a legitimate defence?

[tomterm8]

Right.

 

I'm just using MCOL, do we intend to defend all or part of this claim?

 

Secondly, yes, I believe the balance may include some unlawful penalty charges and therefore we could also use this as a partial defence. However, with the current stay of play between the banks and OFT, can we still use bank charges as a legitimate defence?

 

Have you recieved a signed copy of the credit agreement yet?

 

if not, I would go for a full defence. Otherwise, a partial defence reclaiming the collection / late payment etc charges.

[Saint2K]

No, prior to the claim form arriving through his door, he received little to no corrospondance from Egg, hence why we believe they haven't followed the Civil Procedure rules.

 

We have not yet requested a copy of the CCA, this will be sent tomorrow, do we still go for a full defence?

 

Thanks.

[tomterm8]

No, prior to the claim form arriving through his door, he received little to no corrospondance from Egg, hence why we believe they haven't followed the Civil Procedure rules.

 

We have not yet requested a copy of the CCA, this will be sent tomorrow, do we still go for a full defence?

 

Thanks.

 

I guess so. Have you sent a copy of the disclosure letter?

 

You're cutting things a bit fine, at the moment. The CCA MUST go tomorrow, by next day special delivery.

[Saint2K]

I intend to send the second letter you wrote on this thread tomorrow. I have been unable to send it due to the weekend.

 

It will be going tomorrow by Special Delivery.

 

Also, there are some elements of the first letter that I would like to include in the second.

 

Mainly the comments regarding the Civil Procedure rules as I feel they are particularly relevent to the defence.

[tomterm8]

I intend to send the second letter you wrote on this thread tomorrow. I have been unable to send it due to the weekend.

 

It will be going tomorrow by Special Delivery.

 

Also, there are some elements of the first letter that I would like to include in the second.

 

Mainly the comments regarding the Civil Procedure rules as I feel they are particularly relevent to the defence.

 

PLEASE don't add the comments on the civil procedure rules, they are simply not relevant to your current situation (which is that a case has already been submitted) and would give the claimant advance warning of part of your defence.

 

And you will have to alter the dates so you give only 7 days.

 

That's not really satisfactory, frankly, everything is cut very fine; I would normally advise sending CCA and disclosure request within the first three days of recieving the claim.

[Saint2K]

Ok, thank you for the clarification.

 

So, just to confirm, we are planning on going for a full defence of the claim?

[tomterm8]

Ok, thank you for the clarification.

 

So, just to confirm, we are planning on going for a full defence of the claim?

 

for the moment; in my experience, though, egg agreements are normally enforceable although not properly executed. So almost certainly, your case will likely end up being one of reclaiming the last 6 years of unlawful charges.

 

Since we don't know how much that is yet, we'll have to say we intend to defend all of the claim.

[Saint2K]

Ok, thank you again for help, I'll keep you posted of how we get on

[Saint2K]

Oh, one more question, the address on the claim form for where documents should be sent is "Nelsons, Pennine House, Nottingham".

 

Do I just use this address, or should I also send a copy to Egg?

[tomterm8]

Oh, one more question, the address on the claim form for where documents should be sent is "Nelsons, Pennine House, Nottingham".

 

Do I just use this address, or should I also send a copy to Egg?

 

You should send all corrispondance to the address on the claims form.

 

Via an internet search, I came up with this, so I should ring their phone number (also on the claim form - use 141 before ringing) and ask them to confirm their address.

 

Nelsons Solicitors Llp

Pennine House 8 Stanford Street , Nottingham, NG1 7BQ

Tel: 01159-586262

[Saint2K]

Ok, thanks!

[Saint2K]

Right.

 

Acknowledgement of Service was received on 3 September 2007 giving us a further 14 days to defend the claim.

 

One problem, the letter I sent to Nelsons did not have the amended timeframe i.e. 14 days to respond reduced to 7 days.

 

So, I am obviously going to have to send a further amended letter to Nelsons by Special Delivery tomorrow.

 

Should I just resend the original with the amendment or also forward a covering letter highlighting the error in timeframes?