Steve63 v Cap 1

[steve1963]

Ok,

Some of you may be aware that I am butting heads with Cap1, well here is the full protracted saga to date.

I took out the card in approx 2000 and maintained it pretty well up until earlier this year when because of unemployment I missed 1 payment which in turn attracted some charges.

I wrote to C1 and explained that I was out of work however after looking at my finances I could afford to pay £20 a month, now for some reason two people from different depts at Cap 1 got involved. One was fairly helpful however the other was quite aggressive and didn't want to work with me towards getting something sorted.

I even said that things were looking better and hopfully by the end of August I might be able to go back to making my minimum monthly payment this wasn't good enough and they demanded I pay my arrears which I am not in a position to do.

In some of the letters the snotty one sent they have made reference to my agreement and that I knew the terms and condition when I took out the card so I decided to request a copy of my original consumer credit agreement, this is what they sent. A copy of the current agreement with my name and current (I lived elsewhere when I took the card out) address on it.

At the same time they issued a delault notice on the account.

They are now starting the phone calls again, tonight I had 2 within 10 minutes of each other the first was a pretty aggresive english chap who got shirty with me because I wouldn't answer the security questions and told me I better change my attitude, I know I shouldn't have but I couldn't help laughing which I don't think helped matters. The second from a very stern young lady who I did actually talk to and told her that the account was now in dispute and we got into a little banter about what I should have recieved for my CCA request. She asked me if I had written to tell them that I wasn't happy with the info they sent out and as it happens the letter went today.

So this is where it's at, can anyone give me any insight into how this may pan out and how to approach the issue from here on in.

Cheers

Steve.

[WendyB]

Write in to them reminding them that the account is in dispute. Say that you DO NOT give permission to be contacted by telephone and all communications must be in writing. You can add a bit about the OFT guidance as well, with the relevant bits highlighted. I did this with a DCA and it did the trick, no more phone calls!. I'll see if I can manage to pm it to you.

[steve1963]

Thanks Wendy I'll take a look.

I have put 'choose to refuse' on my phone line today, does anyone have any numbers that cap 1 use to put on there before they even start ringing?

[WendyB]

Have sent you a pm. Not sure on Cap One numbers, I seem to remeber them being withheld....

[steve1963]

Yes thank you Wendy, will amend to suit my needs.

The numbers last night were not witheld, so will see how we get on.

They should have got the dispute letter today lets see what comes of it.

[steve1963]

Update,

Wrote back to cap1 telling them a copy of current terms and cond were not good enough and the account is now in dispute.

Today I recieved a copy of 'Form 4405 Application Certificate' with 2 signatues at the bottom . It's a single sided A4 sheet with just a small section at the bottom which has the heading 'Credit Card Account Agreement' and the sig boxes.

There is also a response from our Ellie (she's not just an office manager you know, she's an executive office manager) saying they have complied with my request and to supply the current terms and conditions is in compliance with section 78 (is it??) and that is her final response, so ya boo sucks!!

Should I write back thanking them but pointing out that this is an application form and the account is still in dispute or just ignore them and wait for the 30 days to be up.

Any help would be most welcome.

[Alphageek]

Hii Steve, how goes it?

[steve1963]

OK I have not heard a peep out of Cap 1 for about a month.

They sent a 'application certificate' and then nothing.

I don't suppose for one minute they have forgotten about me but I see little point in prodding them.

[Alphageek]

LOL - I am just putting my Schedule of Charges and POC for the N1 together.

[ukaviator]

OK I have not heard a peep out of Cap 1 for about a month.

They sent a 'application certificate' and then nothing.

I don't suppose for one minute they have forgotten about me but I see little point in prodding them.

 

 

Steve

 

Can you post this up, with your personal details removed?.

 

This looks like an Unenforcable agreement from what you are saying.

Have a look at Mrsc 's thread in this forum.

 

Uk

[steve1963]

Sorry not been around much, got a lot going on at home with the little ones.

 

Update is:

 

Last week I got a letter from Fredricksons telling me to pay within 10 days or court action will be taken. I replied in writing telling them the account was in dispute and should not have been passed to them and suggested they pass it back at their earliest convenience.

 

Then there was a message on the answer phone last Friday asking me to call back before 9pm.

 

Anyone any advice on how to deal with this?

 

ukaviator

I will try and put up a pic but I still don't have a scanner so have to use my camera so it's not very clear.

[steve1963]

[steven4064]

This doesn't have the terms prescribed under schedule 6 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 on it. It is therefore not enforceable.

[steve1963]

Ok but how should I deal with this from now on, do I need to CCA Fredricksons or SAR Cap One or Fredricksons?

[steven4064]

If you don't have all your stataments then you should send an SAR to CAp1 so you can wwork out the unlawful charges.

 

You should write to Fredricksons (copy to CAp1) headed "ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE" in big bold letters. Tell them that they, although they may have technically complied with your request under s78(1) of the consumer credit act 1974, they have not supplied you with a copy of an executable agreement and therefore have not provided you with a copy of any agreement that is enforceable in court. Further, you disagree with the amount of the alleged debt becasue of the inclusion of unlawful penalty charges.

 

Once you ghet your statements (or if you already have them) start a claim for the repayment of the unlawful charges (and default removel, if there is one).

[steve1963]

Got another letter from Fredricksons today.

 

Dear Mr *******

We thank you for your recent communication

 

Your account has been placed on hold for 15 days to allow you to contact our client on freephone 0800 9524914 for the information you require.

 

We look forward to hearing from you.

 

 

So what should I do now, Cap one have already sent their poor excuse for a CCA and I don't think they will come up with anything more.

[steven4064]

Frdrckson's have anticipated the letter proposed in post #15. I would write to Cap1 (copy this letter from Fedrickson's) and remind them that they have not supplied a copy of an executed agreement to prove that they have the right to enforce the debt. You will assume that, as they haven't produeced a copy of an executed agreement that they cannot - ie one does not exist. If you don't hear from them within 7 days you will assume that that is the end of the matter.

[steve1963]

OK so nothing came back from Cap one but the phone calls have started from Fredricksons again.

I have printed out the cca request to send to Fredricksons and written out the cheque, is this the right thing to do?

Also are we 100% sure that the agreement is not enforceable, and can someone just outline why so that I can at least feel like I know what I am talking about.

[steven4064]

It's an application form, which is a pre-contractual document and therefore void under s59 of the CCA 1974. It does not contain the terms prescribed in schedule 6 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983 and is therefore unenforceable by virtue of ss 61, 65 and 127 of the CCA 1974. This last sentence would not be true if the agreement had been signed after April 2007 (but it was signed in 2000 so that's OK)

[steve1963]

Well I'm convinced!

 

How should I proceed though is CCA request to Fredricksons the right way to go?

Should I send a letter to Cap One stating what you have said or would that just be showing off.

[steven4064]

I would make what I wrote above into a letter and send to Cap1 copied to Fredricksons

[steve1963]

Sorry for not updating this thread but there has not been much going on.

The account was with Fredricksons so I CCA'd them and it went quiet, then I started to get calls from NCO but I refused to talk to them so they wrote to me, so I CCA'd them and it went quite again until this morning.

The postie bought a letter from Cap1 (probably the first direct comms in 6 months) this is what is said.

 

TERMS OF YOUR CAPITAL ONE CREDIT CARD AGREEMENT

Thank you for your recent request. Please see overleaf for the current terms of your agreement with us.

For the rest of your terms and conditions, please see the leaflet enclosed.

If you have any further queries about the account please call our Customer Services Dept on the number below.

 

The enclosed leaflet mentioned has a tear off strip to sign if I want to cancel the agreement.

 

Bit confusing this, are they just trying to get me to make contact??

[ukaviator]

Hi Steve63

 

The leaflet sent, are these your old terms and conditions from when you took out the card?

[steve1963]

No it says current.

[steven4064]

I would write and point out that what they have sent does not satisfy their obligation under s78(1) of the CCA 1974. Remind them of the statutory period.