Yet another Log book Loans thread...

[pinkmoomin]

Familiar story - I took a loan out last year, fell behind on the payments and I'm now in trouble.

 

Before this, apart from two weeks which I soon caught up with, I've paid slightly above what my weekly figure was, but then thanks to the late payment charges when things went pear shaped, I never actually caught up again.

 

I received a default notice, wrote to them and said, look, iIm struggling, if you can hang on til the end of August I will be in a position to pay the arrears and be back on track.

 

Last week I paid a sum via internet banking which should have cleared yesterday, Bank Holiday considered. Today, I received the letter dated yesterday saying the agreement has been ended and £1542 must be paid immediately.

 

This is for a loan of £1300, which with interest/arrangement fee was £2719, and I've already paid a total of £1839, so an extra £660 appeared from somewhere!

 

Anyway, I am now terrified I will wake up to find the car gone or clamped. Withut the car, my daughter can't go to school. I could work from home if it came to the worst, but it'd be hard to explain why.... I don't really know of anywhere else I can park as we are on one long straight road and I have no local friends or family to help out.

 

I've read all the threads on LBL. I am genuinely frightened, I don't know what to do. I have no family I can ask to help with paying them off.

 

Have I got time to query the Bill of sale (which with my luck will be perfectly valid anyway). What stalling techniques are there?

 

The other thing I am clinging onto is the repeated requests to get my V5 back before.

 

I moved to a cheaper place in June and when I phoned to ask about how to change the log book, I was told it would be returned. Of course, it wasn't. I have told LBL they must be aware that they are forcing me to commit a criminal offence by not allowing me to inform DVLA of the change by returning the V5. I possibly brought all this on sooner rather than later by telling them I may consider not repaying the arrears if they didn't let me have the V5 to tell DVLA I moved.

 

DVLA only said I must persist with LBL or pay to get a replacement V5.

 

What I am keeping my fingers crossed for is that by forcing me to commit this offence, LBL have broken the terms? It's full of stuff about my legal obligations re insurance, tax and so on, and the requirement to tell them I have moved.

 

Can anyone give some advice on this?

 

Thanks v much in advance!

[pinkmoomin]

No ideas?

I'm really desparate on this one - trying to write something out to them now, and would love to know if I can say something about the V5 being kept back.

 

I'm trying really hard here!

 

From the Bill of Sale:

14. PROVIDED ALWAYS that the Vehicle assigned shall not be liable to seizure or to be taken possession of by the Lender for any cause other than those specified in Section 7 of the Bills of Sale Act (1878 ) Amendment Act 1882.

 

In said act I found:

 

10.

Attestation.

The execution of every bill of sale by the grantor shall be attested by one or more credible witness or witnesses, not being a party or parties thereto . . . . .

 

Does this mean the Bill must be signed by a third party nothing to do with the transaction? Mine isn't, it's signed by me and the guy who bought the cheque round. It also requests his address, under which he has written 'Log Book Loans'.

[pinkmoomin]

Well, I don't know if it'll do any good but this morning I have emailed and faxed a suggested payment plan to be complete by end of October (three months before agreement would have come to an end) and will post at lunchtime.

 

I've actually figured sine the panic from last night has subsided a little, that my last payment crossed over with their final balance amount, so £1242 owed, droping £362 off the added charges. I said I'd accept them if they accepted my payment offer.

 

I'm still frightened though. I really, really can't be without my car for the sheer need to use it to get us to school and work every day (which are 25 miles from home)

[Tristesse]

Hi pinkmoomin,

 

Please try to stay calm someone will be along shortly with more advice than i can offer. Alot has been covered on these forums about log book so search and read them threads in detail. The main way to go at the moment is the charges. SAR them and get hold of everything (CCA maybe an option worth looking at also), clearly you are in the position that if charges had not have been applied you would not be in the position you are.

Is there anything you can do with the car? It will be worth looking at every possibility even if it means you have to catch a bus a few days to were the car is kept. Remember out of sight out of their hands.

Whilst i commend you for taking action swiftly and suggesting a repayment schedule / reduction in added charges it is worth remembering that these charges are excessive and can be reclaimed in full and you should not accept these charges.

[gizmo111]

I have sent you a PM

[tomterm8]

See my thread, http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/112358-bill-sales-repossession-goods.html .

 

it doesn't sound like your bill of sale is in the exact correct format... there is an exact wording they have to use, in the form

 

"

This Indenture made the day of , between A.B. of of the one part, and C.D. of of the other part, witnesseth that in consideration of the sum of £ now paid to A.B. by C.D., the receipt of which the said A.B. hereby acknowledges [or whatever else the consideration may be], he the said A.B. doth hereby assign unto C.D., his executors, administrators, and assigns, all and singular the several chattels and things specifically described in the schedule hereto annexed by way of security for the payment of the sum of £ , and interest thereon at the rate of per cent. per annum [or whatever else may be the rate]. And the said A.B. doth further agree and declare that he will duly pay to the said C.D. the principal sum aforesaid, together with the interest then due, by equal payments of £ on the day of [or whatever else may be the stipulated times or time of payment]. And the said A.B. doth also agree with the said C.D. that he will [here insert terms as to insurance, payment of rent, or otherwise, which the parties may agree to for the maintenance or defeasance of the security]

Provided always, that the chattels hereby assigned shall not be liable to seizure or to be taken possession of by the said C.D. for any cause other than those specified in section seven of the Bills of Sale Act (1878) Amendment Act, 1882.

In witness, &c.

Signed and sealed by the saidA.B. in the presence of me E.F. [add witness’ name, address, and description.]. "

[pinkmoomin]

Tristesse said:

Hi pinkmoomin,

Alot has been covered on these forums about log book so search and read them threads in detail.

I've spent hours doing so already!

 

Quote

Is there anything you can do with the car? It will be worth looking at every possibility even if it means you have to catch a bus a few days to were the car is kept..

 

Awkward, considering the bus routes where we live and the time we have to leave in amorning, but worth considering, I guess. Certainly can't get a bus anywhere even vaguely near work and school!

 

Thanks for your input.

 

tomterm8 said:

See my thread, http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/112358-bill-sales-repossession-goods.html .

I saw that yesterday, thanks. Although I admit I did get a bit lost in it.

 

 

Quote

it doesn't sound like your bill of sale is in the exact correct format... there is an exact wording they have to use, in the form...

It's not in that exact form, no.

 

BETWEEN [me at my address of the time] (the "borrower") and [them] (the "lender" of the other part.

 

WITNESSETH that in consideration of the sum of £1303 ("the principal sum") now paid by the Lender to the Borrower (receipt of which the borrower hereby acknowledges) the Borrower does hereby assign unto the Lender and its assigns the vehicle edscribed in the schedule ("the vehicle") by way of security for the payment of the sums due in accordance with the credit agreement entrered into between the Lender and Borrower today ("the Consumer Credit Agreement")

AND the Borrower further does declare...

 

all the terms, which do include the other points in your paragraph.

[tomterm8]

It's a really technical legal point, by the form of a bill of sale has been established for over a century, and failure to accord by that form renders it void. You might PM sequenci, since he deals with this stuff every every day, and I am aware he has certain information about standard log book loan bills of sales that would be of great interest to you.

 

The second thing is... does the bill of sale have a court seal on it? Was it registered?

 

 

 

Third thing is,

[pinkmoomin]

It's a really technical legal point, by the form of a bill of sale has been established for over a century, and failure to accord by that form renders it void.

 

So, ths docuemnt isn't valid by not having the exact wording in it?

 

The second thing is... does the bill of sale have a court seal on it? Was it registered?

No, and I'm posting the request for registration info off today, as I only found out about that last night. But will I receive a response in time to save my car????

 

 

 

Third thing is,

?? You tell me!

[tomterm8]

 

?? You tell me!

 

Ooops. That would be a cut & paste error:

 

third thing is, if this debt is a regulated debt, you can bring a time order application against the provider, or do a CCA request.

 

fourth thing is, have you checked the consideration figure is correct: the consideration figure should be the amount they paid you, BEFORE any charges or interest. it shouldn't be the amount of the loan including charges or interest.

 

It's worth calling the national debt line. They are the best charity for dealing with these sorts of things.

 

Don't forget to PM sequenci; he is absolutly brilliant at bills of sales.

[pinkmoomin]

Ooops. That would be a cut & paste error:

 

third thing is, if this debt is a regulated debt, you can bring a time order application against the provider, or do a CCA request.

 

Yes, regulated by the Consumer Credit Act. Should I searchon time order application, or is it a quick explanation? Would a CCA request bide time and stop them taking the car?

 

fourth thing is, have you checked the consideration figure is correct

 

Yes, that figure is correct.

[gizmo111]

Don't forget to PM sequenci; he is absolutly brilliant at bills of sales.

 

Already got him on the scanned copy

[tomterm8]

Ooops. That would be a cut & paste error:

 

 

 

Yes, regulated by the Consumer Credit Act. Should I searchon time order application, or is it a quick explanation? Would a CCA request bide time and stop them taking the car?

 

 

 

Yes, that figure is correct.

 

Are you sure? If i remember right, a heck of a lot of LBL BOS's included a documentation fee or charge for making the loan (arrangement fee). the consideration should be the exact amount they paid you; not a penny more, not a penny less.

[pinkmoomin]

tomterm8 said:

pinkmoomin said:

 

Are you sure? If i remember right, a heck of a lot of LBL BOS's included a documentation fee or charge for making the loan. the consideration should be the exact amount they paid you; not a penny more, not a penny less.

 

That's the figure in the paragraph we looked at above? That is correct as the loan amount. The fee of £195 has been added into the charges with the interest, added on later in the papers, and is termed as a Commitment Fee.

 

gizmo111 said:

Already got him on the scanned copy

And I did PM too!

[sequenci]

hi folks... i'm away at the moment, so only have a little chance to get online from time to time..

 

anyway... we digress.

 

have you check to see if the bill of sale has been registered?

[pinkmoomin]

hi folks... i'm away at the moment, so only have a little chance to get online from time to time..

 

anyway... we digress.

 

have you check to see if the bill of sale has been registered?

 

No worries - thanks for checking on the thread.

 

I was going to get the request for the check on the bill of sale in the post this afternoon as I only found out about that last night - I just popped online before I went to the post office in case I had any new info towards a letter to LBL.

 

And... I have received an email from them accepting my offer of three installments by end of October with no interest added - and have actually knocked some off their final demand figure too, so that it is back at approximately the amount that would be owed had I not incurred any charges so far for letters etc (presumably that amounts to some interest being knocked off since I'll be making the last payment earlier than I would have done had I carried on with the contract? Whatever, I'm pleased it's settled and the whole thing is nearly over. She says....)

 

I may just send the check on the bill of sale just to be sure, in case it does come back to bite me, but at least I can sleep tonight!

 

 

Thanks to you all for the advice given - very much appreciated.

Let's hope I don't need to call back on you in the future on this - but if you do have time to look over the scans and point out anything untoward, I can keep it on file just in case!

[sequenci]

please do check to see if it is registered and indeed, when!