Bill Of Sales and repossession of goods - NOTE: much of this is now out of date - dx 2016

[applecart]

Also - the cost to get a copy of the Bill of Sale is £5.00

 

get the registration number of the documents allegedly lodged from the lender and submit it to the High court with your name and address and name and address of the lender.

[IS IT ME?]

fustrated42

well you will find out about there solicitor's.

Who signed your boss as if you had it done by log book it self then you will find that the same person is also on the list of officer's for the credit licence at the OFT.

Doe's any one have a true:wink: BOS so they can put it up for people to see?

[Nicky Bodmin]

Yes I would like to see one as well my car has been taken and I am trying to find problems with mine but I really dont no how to compare all doc BOS and CA. I have found that the 2 signitures are not the ones needed. One witness is the rep that did the agreement as far as Im concerned that is wrong it has to be no one listed on the Bill so possibly this can void the BOS. How do I cheak or who can I take it to to be cheake. Please advice me, I only have a few days to stop this sale

[frustrated46]

NB, you need to go to court and get an exparte injunction. See thread on this. It's easy and you will get more time..

[sequenci]

Also - the cost to get a copy of the Bill of Sale is £5.00

 

I thought it was £40?

[IS IT ME?]

you need to post it here asap.

without any personal details.

[amcha82]

Hi Guys,

 

I hope someone can give me advice on what to do next and I apologise in advance for the length of my post but I feel my case is different and needs to be explained in detail. A colleague at work suggested I contact a solicitor to try and get and injunction to stop them taking my car.

 

I took out a loan at the end of last year with nine regions Ltd (trading as logbook loans). The agreement was that the loan amount would be secured against my vehicle and they would retain the v5 (logbook) and the spare key until I had paid the loan off.

 

I continued with loan payments as agreed but one Saturday morning a few months later, I woke up to find my car had been removed from my secure underground parking facility. I immediately called logbook as I presumed they had taken it based on the fact that 1. I had defaulted payment by a few weeks, 2. They had the spare key.

I was assured by their representative they had not removed the vehicle and that my account arrears had not yet merited such action. I then informed them if this was the case, I would report the car as stolen to the police.

 

On contacting the police, an officer then told me that my car was not stolen but had been removed by a 'high court enforcement officer' who left a contact and reference. I spent the next four days trying to contact this person to no avail. I then contacted logbook again the following Tuesday as I promised to keep them abreast of any developments only to be told by a different representative that my vehicle had been removed on their instructions after all. According to them, the previous owner had an outstanding finance agreement with them but had sold the vehicle to me. When I put it to them how this had been allowed to happen considering (1) I supplied all the required documentation when applying for the loan, (2) it was their representative who had informed be at the time that they had given a similar loan to the previous owner -yet at no point during my application and subsequent approval did their representative give any indication that there was any finance outstanding (and if there had been, my application should have been declined).

During this exchange, I was called by the bailiff who had removed my car on logbooks behalf who informed me that the situation was quite complicated and kindly offered to send a courier to my flat to collect the keys and return with my personal possessions that were in the vehicle whilst the matter was being sorted. I thought it was a nice gesture and the bailiff seemed quite understanding however, my items were not returned to me and I grew anxious after a few days especially when I found that I could not get through to the bailiff on the contact number he had supplied.

 

The logbook representative on the phone could not give me an explanation or answers to my questions but rather put me through to her supervisor who informed me that my vehicle was at an auction site waiting to be auctioned and if I wanted the vehicle back I would need to bring my account up to date and make an additional payment for storage and admin fees totalling approximately £400. At this point I had no choice as I could not afford to do without the vehicle so I did what was asked and informed them that due to the trading times at the auction site I would send a friend to collect the car on my behalf if I could not make it there on time. It turns out that my friend arrived at the auction house 15 mins before I did and was allowed into the building while I had to wait outside. On collecting my car from my friend whilst still in the car park of the auction house, I was completely shocked to find the personal possessions that had been promised would be returned to me by the bailff were missing including a sound system that I paid a hell of alot for. I was incensed and rang logbook immediately demanding the return of my possessions as I could not go back into the auction house. I was told to send an email to this effect instead, listing all the missing items which I did the following day. After a few days of no rely from logbook, I called them again and was given a different email address and contact name. Again no reply, for more than a week (all this time I was making my usual payments), so I called again and asked to speak to the gentleman who had initially given me an email contact. He apologised that I had not received a reply and also the second email address given was not the department/ contact who could assist me however, as I had also been corresponding by letter with his manager, it was best to continue with that mode of communication instead.

 

To cut a long story short, logbook are given no indication as to where, when and if my possessions will be returned claiming that the items were listed as present when the car was accepted at the auction site and when my friend signed for the car did not mention that any items were missing (he was not to know this). What is really disturbing me is that despite this, they managed to find and send to me my vehicle tax disc several weeks after I had collected my vehicle and only because I had pressed them for my items.

I have made it clear that I will not continue with payments until my items are returned, to which they have replied by closing the matter so I have had no option but to make a complaint to the financial ombudsman. The problem now is that they have asked a bailiff to remove my car and the financial ombudsman cannot ask them to freeze this action as they must remain impartial at all times.

 

I was hoping that a solicitor could file an injunction of some sort to stop them repossessing my vehicle and probably auctioning it until the financial ombudsman has has made a decision on the case.

 

Edited July 31, 2009 by amcha82
removing personal details

[applecart]

Seqenci

If you ring the High Court for advise - you will find that if you know the Registration No then they will only charge you £5.00.

 

The Company who had the loan registered should be able to give you the 'registration number'.

[applecart]

Amcha82

 

You have raised a few issues - and this is possibly why you have not had an abundance of immediate replies....but......my thoughts are....

 

On the issue regarding what to do right now.... I think anyone of us would advise that you consider putting your car out of harms way as your immediate first step.

 

On the issue where your lender has created 2 x bills of sale on the same vehicle - both running at the same time - stinks of 'fraud' - which is why the old act of 1878 was repealed in certain sections to avoid this sort of thing happening.

 

You need to glean a copy of all BOS's for the vehicle held at the High Court - costs will vary here slightly in that you would pay £5.00 for a copy of yours - but £40.00 for copies of any others held as you are unlikely to know the registration number of the BOS for the previous borrower/s, additionally the lender may not give you the information due to data protection laws. - However, asking for a copy from the High Court with a fee is legal as anyone can request a search of the register having paid the appropriate fee.

 

If you can get this proof - I would seek legal advise from there.

 

Hope this helps : )

[applecart]

Amcha82

 

please see: Bills of Sale Act (1878) Amendment Act 1882 (c.43)

 

to help with some of the legislation that may help you.

[sequenci]

Seqenci

If you ring the High Court for advise - you will find that if you know the Registration No then they will only charge you £5.00.

 

The Company who had the loan registered should be able to give you the 'registration number'.

 

Thats really interesting to know, thanks

[ldal558]

i took out a loan with mobile money in april 2009.ive been a customer with them for about 3 years.i havent managed to make a payment yuet as my finances have been messed up.the bos ive got says the person who gave the loan and the witness as one and the same person,is this legal??????help am really worried now,thanks.

[SillyFool]

I'm in the process of challenging my Bill of Sale with Log Book Loans and stated that their agents signature on the BOS was not that of an independant witness. They replies with 'It is stated in Halsbury (at footnote 2 to paragraph 734) that, although a party cannot attest a bill of sale, “his agent or manager may do so”. The authority cited in support of that proposition is Peace v Brookes [1895] 2 Q.B. 451.'

Can anybody comment as to whether this is true or not?

 

Regards

[amcha82]

Applecart

 

Thanks for your help.

 

I went to the high court yesterday to search the register. It appears that the bill of sale for the previous owner was registered 13 days after it was signed!

 

I've read on the forum and elsewhere that the BOS should be registered at the high court with 7 days of its execution so I ordered a copy as well as my BOS which should arrive in a few days.

 

I am now seeking legal advice.

[sequenci]

Applecart

 

Thanks for your help.

 

I went to the high court yesterday to search the register. It appears that the bill of sale for the previous owner was registered 13 days after it was signed!

 

I've read on the forum and elsewhere that the BOS should be registered at the high court with 7 days of its execution so I ordered a copy as well as my BOS which should arrive in a few days.

 

I am now seeking legal advice.

 

If it wasn't registered within the 7 days there is no security! Sounds promising.

 

Best wishes,

 

Seq

[ldal558]

i took out a loan with mobile money in april 2009.ive been a customer with them for about 3 years.i havent managed to make a payment yuet as my finances have been messed up.the bos ive got says the person who gave the loan and the witness as one and the same person,is this legal??????help am really worried now,thanks.

 

How do i find out if my bill of sale has been registered or not,,,my car got stolen and my ins company wrote it off.wen i spoke to my ins compant they said that there was outstanding finance on my car i.e.mobile money.if my ins company pay the outstanding monies to m money i cant afford to get anopther car what else can i do,ive contacted consumer direct wales and am waiting to hear from them.my ins company wont pay out until ive sent them my licence which im not doing until i know what to do about mobile money????? need advice urgent?

[applecart]

amcha

 

Good idea and best of luck.

[applecart]

Hi Silly Fool : )

 

I should ignore the statment - Halsbury was probably referring to a totally different matter altogether.

 

What I mean is: The bill of Sale is governed by the Bill of Sale Act 1878 and the Bill of Sale 1882 as amended - no where in the Bill of Sale Act does it make any reference what so ever to Halsbury (do you get my drift...??) If they wish to use Halsbury case law - they would have to present it to a Judge (not in a letter to a consumer) and clarify it's relevance to your claim that their Bill of Sale is suspect.

 

I suspect if they are sending you a statement from Halsbury's case law - then they are already on the 'backfoot' so's to speak - it really is no defence

 

I would write to them asking them to give you details as to where you can locate the citation or send you a copy of the case they refer to - so you can be sure of it's relevance to you

[applecart]

hi idal58

 

Have you tried informing your insurance company that the matter between you and the car loan company is in dispute?

 

whilst you may not get the money - neither will they - that's probably the best you could do right now???

 

The insurance company are regulated by the FSA and there are 19 Principles on Treating Customers Fairly that they must adhere to......

 

If they give the money to the car loan company whilst the matter you have with them is in dispute - this could cause you to take action against the insurance company for breach of the FSA Regs stated above.

 

I would contact my insurer as a matter of urgency and if you have not already done so - advise the car loan company that you intend to take further action.

 

Getting a copy of your Bill of Sale is simple - check posts on here - it will cost you £5.00 if you know the bos registration number.

 

hope this helps : )

[applecart]

Hi Totty's

 

long time no speak : )

 

You can claim back the money you paid to a creditor under a bill of sale - but you would have to take the matter to court obviously.

 

So long as you can prove that the agreement and/or the bill of sale is invalid you can request the judge make an order in your favour for all the monies you paid under the agreement

 

Best to get a solicitor though.

 

hope this helps : )

[Aberdulais]

Yes, I am also currently fighting LBL. It appears to me that certainly the Bill of Sale that LBL has entered into Court files against me does not have the wording as you have suggested. Nor does it have a 'seal' and the only signatures on the same are that of mine and the LBL agent. Nor is it dated. However, there is one other flaw that I have seen.

The Bill of Sale quotes an interest rate of 84%.

I have calculated that this might be interpreted as a Typical APR of circa 126%?

As per usual, there is also a separate Loan Agreement which has an APR of 308.1% - yeah, three to four times as much. And this was never explained or advised, only the 84% verbally.

Had I know that this was a typical APR of 308% then I would have almost certainly walked away.

I have lodged a complaint with the OFT and the Standards Trading Office on the basis that;

1) The true costs of the loan were not fully and properly explained.

2) The Bill of Sale would appear to be null and void

3) The agent for LBL was operating out of a shop ( cash convertor) that did not display any signs for LBL, nor display any signs for a Typical APR, as required by the CCA and nor were these fully explained.

The same information has been provided by me to the Court.

The car in the meantime was seized by LBL from a Garage where it was being repaired prior to my selling and settling the debt. I am treating this as 'theft'

Anyone have any advice ? or should I just leave the country now

[Nicky Bodmin]

Hi I have found probably the quickest way forward to getting your car back from LBL it is by applying to the Royal Courts to void the BOS. I have just spoken to the Royal Courts Enforcement Section and their advice was an application on a N244 form with a £40 fee. Outlinning the reason why the BOS should be removed. Can anyone please help me with the wording for this application. Mine is based on the fact that the witness signature is by their company Rep. I was adviced by the Courts that the Affidavit has to be witnessed and signed by Commission for Oath ie Solicitor or a member of the court staff. None of this has been done. Is there a letter to help me with this. And a second part to this is the car that was repossessed was no longer the person who took out the loan. It is a breach of Consumer Credit Act 1974 gives (good title) to the innocent private purchaser of a car. Is the any letter for this so I can email this to LBL

 

I like u guys, u kick ars in a manner Im beginning to enjoy many thanks Nicky Bodmin

[muska]

Encyclopaedia of the laws of England, being a new abridgment

 

a bit of poking round found this - p 142 contains the quote they used but it seems totally contradictory to the law they are using which governs bills of sale. I'm sure it wouldn't be upheld by a court- bear in mind they are using an archaic form of legalities purely to get round current consumer legislation as much as possible so i'm sure a court would not be minded to give them benefit using ancient laws...I can't find the case they used tho the peace v whoever it was...so without that its difficult to work out what they are referring to.

my son is having difficulties with them - similar story to many, paid monthly - told them that and assumed payments monthly - no....so has got behind and now getting calls and charges, rate of interest horrendous as usual - told him he's a brerk for doing it but when you're desparate and have no other course...we'v many of us been close to that. I've asked him to bring his BOS so we can check it - he says its only him and the agent signed it so i think even if there are no other errors its worth challenging. i simply can't see a court going with this outdated reference. in fact i reckon they'll back donw because they don't want their practice stopped as it will be if deemed illegal - so its worth them writing off a few challengers because of all the others that get sucked in and do pay up before getting their car seized

[muska]

oh - i forgot to say - i've looked round the web - thats how i got to here - but dies anyone know is there any form of class action going on? its expensive to go it alone and beyond most people means but if the cost were to be shared between many it could be done I'd have thought? maybe someone who's spoken to a solicitor ( not stephensons i guess ) could sound one out about working with a group?

[Nicky Bodmin]

Hi Im trying to put together an application to the High court. I no that the correct wording is very important. My grounds to void the BOS are as follows:

 

!. There rep signed the BOS

 

2 I have two BOS one stamped and one that was sent to me neither I signed

 

3. The CA two I didnt sign They left me with copy of CA. The CA they have is not signed by me

 

4 No default was given

 

5 Debt was in disput from hour after deal done

 

6 The amount recieved was not the amount set out on CA

Can any one advice me how to put that on my application