Ticktock v's Lloyds - serious legal advice required

[Ticktock]

I'll keep this short and to the point for now.

 

I am currently trying to sort out my ex-wifes Lloyds bank reclaim + sorting out her debt with Lloyds (two o/d accounts and a loan), and usually speak to Lloyds on her behalf (after she has rang them first).

 

A letter was sent to Lloyds in January with $10 requesting bank statements over six years.

 

After 40 days, nothing. I ring the bank and they tell me it is 40 working days.

Two weeks later she gets a letter saying they have received the payment and the statements will be sent out within three weeks!

 

Three weeks later...nothing!

 

Over the next few months many phonecalls are made to different departments requesting the statements - they have a dedicated line which is ALWAYS engaged and ALWAYS has a full mailbox so a message can never be left.

 

I am promised on more than one occasion by a different department that they will take my (her), name and number and get back within a couple of days - this never happens.

 

In July I get through to someone who tells me that no payment has been recieved and that we will need to pay another £20 for both accounts.

I argue the point, but just to get things moving agree to pay again - WE ARE PROMISED THE STATEMENTS WILL BE SENT OUT IN THREE DAYS.

 

Three days later - nothing!

 

I call again, and am told the statements will be sent out within the week.

 

A week later...nothing!

 

She then receives a letter (today), from Lloyds stating that because of the oft test case (or whatever it is), they will not send the statements, and instead have refunded £20 to the account.

 

So they have decided that they will refuse to send the statements as they believe they will be used to make a claim...how the hell can they refuse to send them on these grounds? It is none of their business what we want the statements for, how can they possibly refuse to send them on such grounds?

 

WE HAVE BEEN WAITING 8 MONTHS FOR THESE STATEMENTS - NOTHING.

 

We have been lied to, misled, obstructed, and delayed.

 

Now, because they have managed to drag this out for so long, we are way behind where we should be and are virtually in limbo as far as the claim is concerned.

 

All of this has been happening in tandem with trying to sort out a payment scheme to clear her other Lloyds debts, of which we have met even more incompetence than the reclaim.

 

Two different departments telling us to pay different ammounts, in different ways, into different accounts.

 

When the payments had been made, one department confirmed they had received them, the other one was telling us they haven't.

 

I AM HONESTLY NOT EXAGGERATING ANY OF THIS!

 

I have requested transcripts of all converstaions over the past year, and have been told that each one will cost £10 - I am certain these will help her cause, but I'm not in a situation to pay out up to £200...maybe more!

 

She has received calls from Lloyds as late as 20:30/21:00 in the evening, one of them refusing to state who he was until she revealed her account number for security purposes!

 

Purely down to the stress that this has been causing her, she has been prescribed anti-depressants, and it is having a serious effect on her life.

 

I just want to know where we stand legally on this as I in tend to take this as far as I possibly can (if people on here think we have a case)?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

I'm sure there is some other stuff, and will add later if I remember it.

[Goldlady]

As far as I can tell a SAR is exactly that and has nothing to do with the test case. Lloyds have ignored our letters on several occasions but as we no longer bank with them and they owe us more than we owe them I am not losing any sleep over it. Hopefully someone will come along who knows where the right letter is - but I am 99% certain they can't refuse to comply with your request.

 

Anyway with all the evidence you have gathered, even without the transcripts of the phone calls, they would look very silly in court.

 

Maybe you should write to the Chairman of LTSB - I have done this and got results.

[Ticktock]

I might do that, thanks, but I don't have all the exact dates and information for specific calls.

 

My ex-wife actually owes more than she is owed also, so we would settle for a similar situation as you have mentioned - do they chase you up, or are you going through some kind of legal process?

[Goldlady]

They try to hassle us from time to time but every time we get any grief (which is getting quite rare now) we just remind them that they owe us the unlawful charges plus interest and ask them for a cheque for the balance owed to us. Seems to keep them quiet, including their solicitors! So far we haven't gone legal as keeping them at bay is OK for now. I wouldn't worry about the phone calls - in fact I would suggest you write and tell them you will only deal with them in writing.

 

LTSB I think don't know what they are doing. I sent them a CCA request and they sent me six years statements which I didn't need in a massive envelope. I am sure they thought 'oh another one of those CAG letters' and didn't even bother to read it.

 

I sent them this in May:

 

Lloyds TSB plc

c/o Sechiari, Clark & Mitchell, Solicitors

Department SO

PO Box 499

Lower Ground Floor

1-5 Queens Road Quadrant

Brighton

BN1 3XJ

 

 

 

LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: it's a secret

 

Further to your letter of April requiring payment of the £millions outstanding on the above account, I am very disappointed that your client has failed to respond to my letters of mid 2006 and later 2006.

 

I now understand that the regime of 'fees' which your client has been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations.

 

I would draw their attention to the terms of the contract which they agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that Lloyds TSB would conduct themselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that Lloyds TSB have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in their integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I calculate that they have taken £lots plus £more which they have charged me in overdraft interest for the sum which they have taken. Total £even more

 

I am enclosing a copy of the schedule of the charges which I am claiming. I calculate that I am owed a refund of £more than a grand after deducting the account balance.

 

Additionally I believe your client may have entered a default notice against my credit record. This default occurred merely in respect of unlawful charges levied by Lloyds TSB or was the result of impecuniosity caused directly by the taking by them of penalty charges which they had applied unlawfully to my account.

 

In addition to full payment of the sum mentioned above I require that your client remove any default entry from the register. Please note that mere correction or amendment to the entry will not be acceptable.

 

I require repayment in full of this money and removal of the default notice. If Lloyds TSB do not comply fully within 14 days then I shall begin a claim against Lloyds TSB for the full amount plus interest plus a claim under ss.7 and 13 of the Data Protection Act 1998 plus my costs and without further notice.

 

Furthermore, I shall submit a Consumer Credit Act 1974 complaint to the OFT upon the basis that Lloyds TSB have failed to comply with the OFT's direction of 5 April 2006 and are therefore not a 'fit and proper person' to hold a consumer credit licence under the 1974 Act.

 

 

Yours faithfully,

[rory32]

Please read http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/practical_application/subject_access_-_guide_for_data_subjects.pdf

 

The maximum statutory fee is also £10 for all the info they hold on you, not per account. I would also complain to the ICO and be looking for compensation. It won't be much, maybe £100 - £200 but better than nothing.

[Ticktock]

Please read http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/practical_application/subject_access_-_guide_for_data_subjects.pdf

 

The maximum statutory fee is also £10 for all the info they hold on you, not per account. I would also complain to the ICO and be looking for compensation. It won't be much, maybe £100 - £200 but better than nothing.

 

So they should not have charged me £10 per account for bank charges?

 

Does this also apply to the phonecall transcripts?

 

Thanks.

[tomterm8]

So they should not have charged me £10 per account for bank charges?

 

Does this also apply to the phonecall transcripts?

 

Thanks.

 

You are entitled to ALL data held on you for the price of £10. This includes everything, with only a few restrictions (mainly, national security, criminal incrimination, and police investigations )

[rory32]

So they should not have charged me £10 per account for bank charges?

 

Correct.

 

Does this also apply to the phonecall transcripts?

 

Yes. It's £10 for everything they have, this includes the telephone transcripts.

[Ticktock]

Correct.

 

 

Yes. It's £10 for everything they have, this includes the telephone transcripts.

 

I read somewhere that they can legally request £10 per individual request?

 

If this is not true, then I will request all transcripts for £10, but don't want to waste time on something which they are not bound by law to do, as they just will not bother.

[tomterm8]

I read somewhere that they can legally request £10 per individual request?

 

If this is not true, then I will request all transcripts for £10, but don't want to waste time on something which they are not bound by law to do, as they just will not bother.

 

It is £10 for each request, but not £10 for each transcript or bank account; it is £10 for all data held on you if you chose to ask for all data held on you.

 

A request is a single letter, specifying what data you want, or alternatively specifying ALL data held on yourself.

[Ticktock]

Please read http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/practical_application/subject_access_-_guide_for_data_subjects.pdf

quote]

 

Although I don't know for certain, I am pretty sure they will use the following quote from that document as a 'get out clause' in having to supply all of the telephone conversation transcripts for only a single £10 fee:

 

The data controller has an obligation to provide the information in permanent form. This means that the information may be sent as a computer print out, in a letter or on a form unless the supply of such a copy is not possible, would involve disproportionate effort, or you agree otherwise.

[tomterm8]

Please read http://www.ico.gov.uk/upload/documents/library/data_protection/practical_application/subject_access_-_guide_for_data_subjects.pdf

quote]

 

Although I don't know for certain, I am pretty sure they will use the following quote from that document as a 'get out clause' in having to supply all of the telephone conversation transcripts for only a single £10 fee:

 

The data controller has an obligation to provide the information in permanent form. This means that the information may be sent as a computer print out, in a letter or on a form unless the supply of such a copy is not possible, would involve disproportionate effort, or you agree otherwise.

 

mate, people regularly get sent transcripts of telephone conversations... most people agree to accept the actual recordings, if the creditor/dca wants to do that.

 

Most people, however, find that mysteriously, the creditor / DCA doesn't record telephone calls and so no data is held.

 

This is quite useful in court cases, because it tends to swing the balance of proof in your favour.

[Ticktock]

 

mate, people regularly get sent transcripts of telephone conversations... most people agree to accept the actual recordings, if the creditor/dca wants to do that.

 

Most people, however, find that mysteriously, the creditor / DCA doesn't record telephone calls and so no data is held.

 

This is quite useful in court cases, because it tends to swing the balance of proof in your favour.

 

They are agreeing to send them but for £10 'each' (there are probably 10 - 20). There are suggestions on here that I could get them for £10 for the lot.

 

I'm not saying they don't have them, I'm saying that I think I will have to pay £200+ to get them, not the £10 that has been suggested here.

[tomterm8]

 

 

I'm not saying they don't have them, I'm saying that I think I will have to pay £200+ to get them, not the £10 that has been suggested here.

 

They are lying. Can i put it more bluntly than that? Nope. The data protection act 1998 sets the charge for a S.A.R. at £10. A S.A.R. covers all data held by an organisation, with few exceptions.

 

You should complain to the information commissioner.

[Ticktock]

 

They are lying. Can i put it more bluntly than that? Nope. The data protection act 1998 sets the charge for a S.A.R. at £10. A S.A.R. covers all data held by an organisation, with few exceptions.

 

You should complain to the information commissioner.

 

OK cheers.

 

So I should send a S.A.R requesting all bank statements over a six year period and all telephone conversation transcripts over the past year, and send a cheque for £10.

 

Any advice what I can add in the letter to force them to take me seriously and get all of this A.S.A.P, as they clearly currently are not?

 

Thanks.

[Ticktock]

Will banks take a complaint to the 'Information Commissioner' seriously?

[tomterm8]

( MODERATORS: please note, I've altered this letter for the specific needs of the poster. It is not a copy of the template letter. Please don't delete it:) )

 

 

[your address]

 

 

 

[their address]

 

 

[DATE]

 

 

 

 

Data Protection Act 1998

Subject Access Request

 

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

 

ACCOUNT NUMBER: xxxxxxxxx (or multiple numbers if more than one account)

 

 

Please supply me ALL DATA you hold on me, including a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my banking history with your organisation. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable.

 

Additionally, where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any member of your staff, or any other person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my banking business with you.

 

If you are unable to supply this data because there has been no such manual intervention, then please be so kind as to confirm this in your response.

 

Further, I require a transcript or electronic recording in a readable format( including windows XP readable format OR a cassete tape OR a music DVD) of any recorded telephone conversation between us.

 

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply. Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me, then I shall be reclaiming them, and also reclaiming the enclosed £10 Data Protection Act subject access request fee.

 

If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

I would be happy to collect the Data from my local branch.

 

Please note, failure to comply on time will result in a complaint to the statutory authorities.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

[signature]

 

 

[name]

 

.

[tomterm8]

Will banks take a complaint to the 'Information Commissioner' seriously?

 

Doesn't matter; it's the first step in the process of taking them to court. P.S. send the letter special delivery.

[Ticktock]

Cheers tomterm8, I will send this, BUT I must add that I have already sent this request in January. I received notification after 40 working days that the money had been received and the statements would be sent out within a further 3 weeks! They were not sent, and we have been chasing them up ever since.

They simply will not send out the statements.

[tomterm8]

Then, ignore the letter, and complain immediatly, Information Commissioner's Office - ICO .

 

Also send this letter, special delivery.

 

 

 

 

Notice Before Civil Action

 

Pursuant to s.7 of The Data Protection Act 1998.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Re: account no. XXXXXXXXX

Account holder. XXXXXXXXX

Address. XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

Whereas I have been a customer of XXXXXXX Bank since XXXYEARXXX and whereas I requested on DATE, under section 7 of the data protection act 1998 relevant personal data, and paid to you the statutory fee of £10 and

 

Whereas you acknowledged service of this letter after the statutory period for the delivery of this data had passed, and further promised that you would supply this data within a period of 3 weeks and,

 

Whereas you have now been in default of this subject access request for a period of XXX Days.

 

Therefore Take Notice that I require that you to provide the data requested in the attached copy of the subject access request within a period of 21 days, or I shall start proceedings against you in connection with this default under s7 of the act.

 

This Notice is given on the grounds that failure to provide this data within the prescribed period is causing me substantial damage and harm, preventing me issuing a notice under section 10 of the data protection act 1998 to correct data held, and issuing legal action against your company with regard to unlawful bank charges.

 

Signed

 

 

 

 

date

[Ticktock]

Cheers.

 

Quick question, any payouts which may happen in the fututre, do they get paid directly into the current bank account, or can a cheque be requested/payment made to a different account?

[Ticktock]

Actually, something else.

 

The original request was for statements for 'one' of the accounts.

We now require statements for both accounts, so will they only be obliged to send the one set of statements, as that is all that was requested - and we also want the statements leading up to 'now', not up to when we originally requested them as there have been charges in the seven+ months we have been waiting?

 

We still would like to get the transcripts, so is it worth sending the first letter again aswell?

[rory32]

Quick question, any payouts which may happen in the fututre, do they get paid directly into the current bank account, or can a cheque be requested/payment made to a different account?

This depends on your financial situation. If you have an overdraft the bank have the right to offset the balance against the charges. However, if you have other creditors you can argue that this would put your bank in a preferential position and as such the monies should be paid to you by cheque to be split amongst your creditors on a pro rata basis.

 

If you have no overdraft then obviously you can request the money in whatever format you like e.g. paid to account or cheque.

[Ticktock]

This depends on your financial situation. If you have an overdraft the bank have the right to offset the balance against the charges. However, if you have other creditors you can argue that this would put your bank in a preferential position and as such the monies should be paid to you by cheque to be split amongst your creditors on a pro rata basis.

 

If you have no overdraft then obviously you can request the money in whatever format you like e.g. paid to account or cheque.

 

It is for my ex-wife that I am trying to do this, and she is overdrawn to probably 3 times what she is owed.

[tomterm8]

It is for my ex-wife that I am trying to do this, and she is overdrawn to probably 3 times what she is owed.

 

You should be a bit careful, then, since the banks often end overdrafts on a pretext, if you reclaim charges.