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Covering my angles/ass - dodgy lcd tv seller and refund


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hi,

 

this would infer that it does-

http://pages.ebay.co.uk/businesscentre/explained/8.html

 

i bought a tv 3 months ago on ebay (buy it now). it was a customer returned/ unused item. the seller advised it came with 1 years warranty, which they are honouring. 1 month ago i returned the tv as the sound went and i was sent a replacement tv. 1 week ago the picture went and i've returned this second tv. the seller has offered me an alternative product, or i can go for the same product. neither of these appeal to me as it costs me £33 each time i have to return the tv (its a return to base warranty) and i'm almost certain i'm going to continue to have problems with these "refurbished" tvs.

 

usually the sale of goods act does not apply to auctions, but according to the link above, if the seller is running a business, which im certain they are, than it does.

 

can i argue the not-fit-for-purpose or without-defect clause in the sale of goods act?

 

thanks, kris

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unless you purchase an item through an auction, if this is the case then it is not covered by the SGA 1979 as amended. however if you brought the item through the buy it now function then you would be able to claim through the sale of goods act / contract law

 

thats my understanding of the law as a 2nd year law student. i may be wrong but thats how i read it

 

 

regards

 

paul

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  • 2 months later...

hi,

 

i need to cover my angles for a potential refund that i should be getting tomorrow, but i have a gut feeling its not going to be straightforward.

 

diluted

-------

i bought an lcd tv from ebay four months ago. it broke. got sent another one. it broke. got sent a third one. it broke. asked for refund. seller advised will be processed monday 27th.

 

the juice

---------

best explained by a letter i sent him this week.

 

Dear Mr X,

 

I purchased item #123456789 Hitachi 32LD6600 LCD TV from you on the 12th March 2007 at a cost of £399.99. The equipment has proved to be defective/ ceased to work. On the 18th May 2007 I received an identical replacement. The equipment has proved to be defective/ ceased to work. On the 16th June 2007 you agreed by telephone that you would provide me with a refund if a replacement JVC LT32DR7 LCD TV was defective. On the 19th June 2007 I received a replacement JVC LT32DR7 LCD TV. The equipment has proved to be defective/ ceased to work. On the 20th August 2007 you agreed to have the equipment collected on the 21st August 2007. The equipment was not collected. On the 20th August 2007 you refused to confirm that you would be issuing me with a refund of £399.99.

 

The Sale of Goods Act 1979 (as amended) requires you to ensure that goods are of a satisfactory quality and fit for their normal purpose. The goods clearly do not meet either of these requirements.

 

The Distance Selling Regulations Act (2000) states that if goods develop a fault within the first six months of being sold, the law presumes that the fault was there when you sold the goods- unless you can show otherwise. You should not charge return costs for goods that have been rejected because they are faulty.

 

The Distance Selling Regulations Act (2000) states that a refund must be issued as soon as requested, allowing for a reasonable amount of time. You cannot demand that the TV be returned before a refund is issued.

 

Accordingly, I am writing to advise you that I am rejecting the goods and claiming a full refund for the cost of the equipment and the cost of returning the two previous defective pieces of equipment. This amounts to a total of £465.99.

 

You are listed as a private seller on Ebay. In the eyes of the law and the Inland Revenue the moment you buy something with a view to reselling at a profit you lose private seller status and are treated as acting in the course of a business and are subject to the Sale Of Goods Act (as amended) and the Distance Selling Regulations (2000).

 

If a private seller sells similar items on a regular basis he is deemed to be acting in the course of a business and is subject to the Sale Of Goods Act (as amended) and the Distance Selling Regulations (2000).

 

Should a refund not be forthcoming I will pursue a claim at County Court. The fee for this is £50- a fee I am entitled to add to my claim. I am also entitled to add interest at the statutory judicial rate of 8%. This would bring a total claim against you of £531.52.

 

I do not wish to take these actions but I have exhausted all avenues in the hope of coming to a fair and reasonable agreement.

 

I look forward to receiving a refund of £465.99 within the next 7 days.

 

Yours faithfully,

Me

 

now, i had to send him this as he wouldnt agree to issue me with a refund. the tv has now been collected. he is listed as a private seller on ebay, but he sells ALOT of tvs and other electrical equipment AND, after looking up the delivery address on the receipt i got, i found out they are registered from this address as a limited company.

 

when i initially asked for a refund he kept trying to say that the warranty is with jvc and he would need to speak to them. i kept saying that i dont care who makes the tv, i bought it from you so my contract is with you, not the manufacturer.

 

he's never really responded to my queries, especially when i mention the word refund. however i text him on friday and he text back saying "Once its received need 2 confirm problem. although jvc not replied will refund but will hav 2 be on monday when sufficient funds r available. thank you" so this will likely be a paypal refund.

 

i've mailed 6-7 buyers who bought said tv around the same time as me, and 2-3 came back and said they had problems.

 

so a number of things could happen.

 

a) i could get the refund.

- great

 

b) he could delay further. ok i suppose, he only has til thursday 30th

before i start legal action.

- not so great

 

c) say that the fault with the tv is my fault- what do i do here?

- i understand within 6 months its upto the seller to prove the fault wasn't there when the item was sold. what if he says he can prove it?

 

d) try and send me a replacement tv.

- what can i quote here? tell him that out of 7 people i mailed, 3 have had faulty goods? any juicy legal stuff i can use?

 

my other problem is that is he actually bound by the laws quoted above? am i right in thinking that i can prove he is more than a private seller (not just in the eyes of ebay), but the law and the taxman and therefore subject to these laws.

 

i want to have an answer ready for any scenario he may throw my way.

 

thanks if you're still reading :-)

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3 TVs and all don't work after a short period, you must be up in arms due to this, E.Bay are quite fickle when it comes to things like this, but it might be worth just e.mailing them to seek wether there are prepared to become involved, and act on your behalf ? I know with similar experince e.bay don't like getting involved after a certain period has alapsed, you could also get chatting in the in e.bay chat rooms and the sellers and buyers there might be able to give you there experinces in such matters.

Since you got the 1st TV back in March 2007 and had two other TVs since, 5 months had now passed, which makes me think e.bay won't assist you, but it might be worth asking for there advice, no doubt you got a receipt with each TV that was sent to you, this will show the name of business and vat number if registered ? Far as i,m aware e.bay power sellers are legally bound as businesses and pay taxes and vat. which might assist you in making your claim.

I note the seller has been communicating with you with respect this matter, and not just ignoring things, which might be seen as good news for you, or just further delay tatics on there behalf, but since you have waited this long, i'd endeavour to wait and see the out-come once the bank holiday is over, should no postive result be forecoming to suit all concerned then i would follow up with the letter you have penned.

I wouldn't mention intrest at this stage, just the costs that you have occurred sending the TVs back ( hope the seller agreed returning costs would be refunded, did you give them the opition of collecting each tv as required ? ) and the cost of the TV itself.

Good luck and when you get your money back, there are some great offers on at the moment from big companies that sell TVs, think you might get something alot more for your money at the mo.

!2 years Tesco distribution supervisor

7 years Sainsburys Transport Manager

 

4 Years housing officer ( Lettings )

Partner... 23 Years social services depts

 

All advice is given through own opition, also by seeking/searching info on behalf of poster, and own personnel dealings.

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You seem to know what you are doing - within the first six months the trader must prove that the product wasn't faulty, which he can't do.

 

Did you pay with a credit card? If so, you have some extra protection if the seller doesn't play ball.

 

Also, are you sure in the ebay ads he doesn't state he's a trader? If so, he commits a criminal offence (Business Advertisements (Disclosures) Order).

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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Ebay won't care, PayPal might, but it looks as though you're well past their cut off point for resolving issues like this. His agreement to refund via PayPal being subject to his account being funded sounds OK, as he cannot make a refund unless it is from an existing balance. However was I find incredible that a JVC pan goes fault from the box - were you genuinely getting a replacement (ie different serial number) model each time?

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hi, the first two tvs were hitachi, and they were different to each other as they had wall mount bolts on the back in slightly different places. and the jvc was another tv altogether, so definitely three different tvs. i dont think he can make a paypal 'refund' as its past 45 or 90 days (cant remember which). i would have thought he would have a bank account linked to his account and be able to use that for funding a payment...?

 

i spoke to him earlier and he said he only had £250 in his paypal account at the moment but once he sells a couple more stereos (£55 each) or one camcorder (£150) he will be able to refund me, he says tuesday or wednesday latest. seeing as i cant do anything until this friday (the deadline i gave him) i might as well wait til it pans out. he said they repaired the tv pretty easily but he sounded happy to give me a refund. i think its all good, but wont count my chickens yet.

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I would be wary of accepting any funds via Paypal unless it is a refund of the original transaction, because you'll have to pay fees to receive it; and also he could potentially do a chargeback at a later date.

 

If it's too late for a refund (I think it's 60 day limit, not sure) - then ask him for cash, cheque or direct bank transfer.

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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barracad- i've downgraded my paypal account so anything received from another paypal account wont cost me anything. can he do a paypal chargeback, or are you referring to a creditcard chargeback?

 

as i understand now, paypal can only do a chargeback if there are funds in your paypal account- i don't think they can take the funds direct from your bank account anymore- anyone care to correct me on this? if he does do a chargeback, i think he's got alot more to lose than i have... :)

 

scarletpimpernel- i've resisted this course of action so far. i don't want to rile him up while he's still happy to cooperate.

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ok, getting impatient now and wanting to play the small claims card....

brief timeline-

fri 17- tv went pop. called and asked for refund. no commitment to refund.

mon 20- after much pushing agreed to have tv collected on tue 21

thu 23- tv collected and above letter sent

fri 24- tv and letter signed for. text him asking about tv and he advised refund on monday once tv checked over and when funds available (so presume paypal)

mon 27- i called and he advised not enough funds available but should be a couple of days

tue 28- someone bought something to the tune of the amount i need, and his feedback is alot of "quick payment" so presume paypal and pretty quickly

tue 28- i text advising he can refund me by bank transfer as an alternative

wed 29- i can see seller has been online this morning. i text saying that if no refund by end of day we should look at bank transfer or payment over counter or cash/cheque by special delivery. i've emailed buyer of latest item asking (in a roundabout sort of way) if he has made payment for item. no response yet.

 

now i know i shouldnt really be texting, and keeping it official with letters, but doing my head in, much? i don't think the seller is dodgy, but i don't think he's taking me seriously or treating this with any urgency. i don't want to wade in with court action yet, but i've been waiting nearly two weeks.

 

another thing that strikes me, is he not afraid of court action? does he know something i don't?

 

thanks for listening

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ok, got my refund now. and relax.

 

How has he refunded you?

 

barracad- i've downgraded my paypal account so anything received from another paypal account wont cost me anything. can he do a paypal chargeback, or are you referring to a creditcard chargeback?

 

as i understand now, paypal can only do a chargeback if there are funds in your paypal account- i don't think they can take the funds direct from your bank account anymore- anyone care to correct me on this? if he does do a chargeback, i think he's got alot more to lose than i have... :)

 

Even though he isn't actually purchasing anything from you, if he sends you a payment by Paypal and then at a later date complains he hasn't received anything from you, Paypal would do a "chargeback" if you are unable to prove he has received something from you - as daft as it sounds this is how it works! Yes, this would probably be limited to the funds you have available in your Paypal account at the time, but they would pursue you for the "debt".

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

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refunded by paypal. in the subject heading of the payment he put

"***REFUND REQUEST***"

so hopefully i can argue it was a refund if anything goes belly up.

already taken out of my account too.

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