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elizabeth1

Another Cabot Court Case

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Hi Tomterm,

 

This might sound a stupid question - but when do you do a skeleton argument? Do you just bring it along with you to the hearing or do you have to supply it in advance and how does it differ from a witness statement?

 

I've got a case with Morgan Stanley at the moment, we've just exchanged AQs and I've issued a Part 20 counterclaim against them.

 

Regards

 

nicklea

 

Hi, nicklea, a skeleton argument is a brief, clear and concise statement of the main legal and factual basis of the case. In other words, it's a summary that you will talk around in the hearing.

 

A witness statement is a binding legal document in which you state exactly what happened to the best of your knowledge.

 

while I don't want to hijack elizabeth1's thread, the essential answer is that a skeleton argument has to be produced if the court orders it (this can take several forms, ranging from an order that a skeleton argument is produced, to something along the lines of "the parties will submit in writing a brief description of the nature of the case" or any of a dozen similar wordings. ). Where the court orders this, it normally orders that the argument will be submitted at least 7 days in advance of the hearing.

 

In most county court cases, a skeleton argument won't be legally necessary. Since you are a litigant in person, not a trained lawyer, you can normally get away with giving it to the judge in person at the allocation hearing. if you were a trained lawyer, you would normally be expected to submit it 7 days before the hearing.

 

This was what elizabeth1 did, since I was only aware of the case a couple of days before the hearing, and wrote the Skeleton Argument the day before.


i will be off site for the next month or so. if you have any problems, feel free to report the post so a moderator can help you.

 

I am not a qualified or practicing lawyer.

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*Subscribing* Keep It Simpe Stupid (KISS Principle) - Works for me


I'm not an expert so check everything I tell you, however click me scales if I've been useful.

Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.

 

There is no freemasonry like the freemasonry of Golf

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A big well done to Elizabeth1 and hubby for facing such a daunting task, and another big well done for Tom for making hings simple for us.

 

If you don't mind Elizabeth i would be interested to know what was the basis for your case, i.e. what was the main points of your PoC?

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk


I think it would be a good idea.

Mahatma Gandhi when asked what he thought of Western civilization

 

Advice & opinions of MoonHawk are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability.

Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any doubts.

 

Lloyds TSB - Unlawful charges - Settled £8,807.68

Motor Help UK - Misrepesentation Act - Settled £111.25 (Thread Here)

Next Directory court action without a CCA for £605 - Settled & account closed (Thread Here)

CABOT - Can not produce CCA and refusing to accept it - In progress

Aktiv Kapital - Can not produce CCA and also refusing to accept it - In progress

Barclaycard - Can not produce CCA for an account of £2,000. After a long fight used CPR - Settled

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congrats

 

i think ill have to take littelwoods to court soon, and this will come in very handy


Me Vs AA/Blair Oliver - Defaulted on CCA, Committed Criminal Offence, started chasing payment

 

Me Vs Great Universal - Wrote off the 2k balance, couldnt supply docs

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/74209-me-littlewoods-catalogue.html

 

My Friend Vs Lowell Portfolio - Balance written off, all action stopped!

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/75075-my-friend-lowell-victory.html

 

My Friend Vs Empire Catalogue - Balance Cleared

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/75713-my-friend-empire-droyds.html

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A big well done to Elizabeth1 and hubby for facing such a daunting task, and another big well done for Tom for making hings simple for us.

 

If you don't mind Elizabeth i would be interested to know what was the basis for your case, i.e. what was the main points of your PoC?

 

Best Wishes

MoonHawk

 

 

The basis of claim PoC was for paper work CCA. DoA, Sale Agreement - we didn't ask for money left that for discretion of court (that way nobody could argue over money)

 

You see originally Cabots had made a claim against Hubby over the same claim last year and when they were challenged over paperwork they allowed case to be struck out. So when we questioned them afterwards about what was going on they told us we won't chase you for account/debt amounts but we will still add interest to these accounts and will still write crap to CRA's "it's our duty to do so".

 

We were trying to establish what laws they were using to do this with etc..and what paperwork exists to allow them to do this.

 

So the answers we got wasn't really good - left us with no alternative but to try find the answers we wanted through court.

 

Whichever way this goes it allows us to see what is happeneing and where we can go from there to resolve matters.


My CCA skeleton argument to use in court -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/cabot/115280-useful-information.html

 

Useful Letters (CCA request is letter N)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

CAG A-Z list of useful places in CAG -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/69359-cant-find-what-youre.html

 

Introduction to Consumer Litigation -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/108467-basic-introduction-consumer-credit.html

CABOT THREADS -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/131321-cabot-threads.html

 

ALWAYS SEEK A PROFESSIONAL OPINION FROM QUALIFIED ADVISORS - any advice offered is from my own experience and knowledge - I am NOT qualified.

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Most excellent work elizabeth1, and my heartfelt congratulations. We need to stand up to these thugs and your efforts place you at the vanguard of the battle. Your hubby must be very proud.

 

I await further developments, with relish.

 

 

Regards

 

Lantana

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Hi, Elizabeth1

 

This has to be one of the best threads on this superb site. I think the ideas behind your / Tomterm8's Skeleton Argument, along with the persistence you have shown, is inspiring and incredibly useful to anyone approaching a court date.

 

Well done!!!

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I need to submit a defence against our friends this week, who are claiming I defaulted on a debt they bought from BoS. They haven't produced a CCA since I requested it from them in March, so as far as I am concerned, they can't enforce it.

Should a skeleton defence take a similar form to Lizzy's claim? If so, I need to get cracking, because that's a lot more 'legalese' than my defence summary which I'd intended to submit, having already acknowledged service of their claim.

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I need to submit a defence against our friends this week, who are claiming I defaulted on a debt they bought from BoS. They haven't produced a CCA since I requested it from them in March, so as far as I am concerned, they can't enforce it.

Should a skeleton defence take a similar form to Lizzy's claim? If so, I need to get cracking, because that's a lot more 'legalese' than my defence summary which I'd intended to submit, having already acknowledged service of their claim.

Why are they taking you to Court without a CCA


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Why are they taking you to Court without a CCA

 

 

ODC - this is what Cabots & Hodsons Solicitors do - they take people to court with no supporting evidence to show they actually own these "alleged accounts/debts" I will explain -

 

Cabots write and issue the Hodsons Solicitors "templates" as LBA's and then instruct Hodsons to file court claims on their behalf. Hodsons are quite happily sat there signing the "witness statements" on the court claims telling court that what they are claiming on behalf of their "clients" is TRUE !!!

 

HOWEVER - on sometimes we reply and ask Cabots or Hodsons for a CCA relevant to the claims they are making and like "magic" the cases get struck out of court. Now I do wonder how this group of solicitors are actually getting away with filing the hundreds of "alleged claims" on behalf of their clients. Hodsons never seem to follow any "Pre Court Protocols" prior to filing any claims in court - they simply write the claims and sign them - then back off if we challenge them for papers/proof of debts.

 

NOW even more interesting is the fact that the person who is issuing the Hodsons "templates" is our good friend Mr Glen Crawford who is none other than In House solicitor and a Director of Cabots group of companies. So now lets raise the question - whatever is Mr Glen Crawford doing in issuing any such "templates" or instructing his solicitors at Rugby = Hodsons to issue proceedings against persons where they have absolutely no proof whatsoever that they own such debts?????????? (we all get the reply to CCA requests that Cabots need to go to the original lenders)

 

Seems we do need to question this procedure and their reasoning behind such behaviours at Cabots and Hodsons?

 

My new project - I want to be a millionnaire before christmas comes!!! :D

 

Now I wonder if I phoned Hodsons up tomorrow and asked them to file a few claims against "joe bloggs of XYZ STREET, ANY TOWN - SOMEPLACE" whether they'd actually file it - could make a whole new living out of filing claims against anyone couldn't we? (because it is basically what Hodsons do isn't it?)

Hey!! I could start with my local telephone directory and electoral register make a whole list of names and addresses - cause if Hodsons aren't diligent enough to ask for proof of such debts - chances are the people receiving the claims are going to be too scared to question such a claim cause they don't want a CCJ (most people owe someone money somewhere?) people will pay up no questions asked ? Hey I can be as rich as Mr Maynard with a plan like that :D Does anyone reckon D & P would want "in" on my project? ;) I could split it with them 70/30 all they got to do is keep signing :D (ok I am not funny - only joking I wouldn't go for such a [problem])

 

I reckon this Hodsons racket needs bringing to an end - it's extortion of money off people in my own personal opinion.

 

Hodsons are chancers - just like Cabots only Hodsons hide under a solicitors badge!!! They know perfectly well that many of the claims they are filing have no CCA's - yet they still file the statement of truth having seen NO proof of such alleged debts. But maybe this is why they more recently file MCOL claims to take the focus off the signatures?


My CCA skeleton argument to use in court -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/cabot/115280-useful-information.html

 

Useful Letters (CCA request is letter N)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

CAG A-Z list of useful places in CAG -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/69359-cant-find-what-youre.html

 

Introduction to Consumer Litigation -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/108467-basic-introduction-consumer-credit.html

CABOT THREADS -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/131321-cabot-threads.html

 

ALWAYS SEEK A PROFESSIONAL OPINION FROM QUALIFIED ADVISORS - any advice offered is from my own experience and knowledge - I am NOT qualified.

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the easy way i spose then would be to take hodsons to court for false ummm wassa word i'm lookin for?


If my advice has been helpful please feel free to click on my scales :grin:

 

Creditors and DCAs - Letter Templates & Budget Planner (CCA request letter N)and other templates)

 

Debt Collection Agencies & Statutory Demands, a few strategies

 

Abbey charges, Won

B-card non-disclosure of S.A.R, WON £30 costs awarded

B-Card, court for harrasement, failed to defend WON £175 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/125554-28-days-later-no.html#post1422508

B-Card charges, partial refund, still fighting

Vanquis-Cabot, GIVEN UP :lol:

HFC & my mum, no brainer, no CCA http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/133330-hfc-my-mum.html#post1404514

 

PLEASE donate to CAG however small. They are fighting for YOUR rights as a consumer. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/

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Uttering or Tendering a false document


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nope that not the word keep tryin


If my advice has been helpful please feel free to click on my scales :grin:

 

Creditors and DCAs - Letter Templates & Budget Planner (CCA request letter N)and other templates)

 

Debt Collection Agencies & Statutory Demands, a few strategies

 

Abbey charges, Won

B-card non-disclosure of S.A.R, WON £30 costs awarded

B-Card, court for harrasement, failed to defend WON £175 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/125554-28-days-later-no.html#post1422508

B-Card charges, partial refund, still fighting

Vanquis-Cabot, GIVEN UP :lol:

HFC & my mum, no brainer, no CCA http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/133330-hfc-my-mum.html#post1404514

 

PLEASE donate to CAG however small. They are fighting for YOUR rights as a consumer. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/

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Why are they taking you to Court without a CCA

 

I an only echo Lizzy's comments. I was slightly gobsmacked when the claim form dropped through the door, particularly as I was already reading the Hodson's letter, which had also just arrived, telling me I had 7 days to respond oor else they may issue County Court proceedings! Talk about premature! The 7 days somehow metamorphosed into 7 seconds!

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misenterpritation? ummm no but gettin closer. ok solictors taking you to court without having the required legal documentation lol fraud perhaps


If my advice has been helpful please feel free to click on my scales :grin:

 

Creditors and DCAs - Letter Templates & Budget Planner (CCA request letter N)and other templates)

 

Debt Collection Agencies & Statutory Demands, a few strategies

 

Abbey charges, Won

B-card non-disclosure of S.A.R, WON £30 costs awarded

B-Card, court for harrasement, failed to defend WON £175 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/125554-28-days-later-no.html#post1422508

B-Card charges, partial refund, still fighting

Vanquis-Cabot, GIVEN UP :lol:

HFC & my mum, no brainer, no CCA http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/133330-hfc-my-mum.html#post1404514

 

PLEASE donate to CAG however small. They are fighting for YOUR rights as a consumer. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/

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misenterpritation? ummm no but gettin closer. ok solictors taking you to court without having the required legal documentation lol fraud perhaps

 

 

Misrepresentation??

 

is that the one?

 

Don't worry - me is beavering as we speak - I personally think Hodsons are as guilty as Cabots - cause they sign & issue all these claims having nothing to prove the claims. The least they should have is evidence that the cases claims truly exist.

 

People need to complain to ILEX, Law Society, Legal Ombudsman, Supervisor of Solicitors - there are lots of routes to complain about such slap happy solicitors. Hodsons can have their licences taken away too!! Just because they are trading as solicitors - doesn't mean what they are doing is right. There are laws to protect us from these people and their shoddy claims.


My CCA skeleton argument to use in court -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/cabot/115280-useful-information.html

 

Useful Letters (CCA request is letter N)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

CAG A-Z list of useful places in CAG -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/69359-cant-find-what-youre.html

 

Introduction to Consumer Litigation -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/108467-basic-introduction-consumer-credit.html

CABOT THREADS -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/131321-cabot-threads.html

 

ALWAYS SEEK A PROFESSIONAL OPINION FROM QUALIFIED ADVISORS - any advice offered is from my own experience and knowledge - I am NOT qualified.

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that could well be "The Word" keep beavering :)


If my advice has been helpful please feel free to click on my scales :grin:

 

Creditors and DCAs - Letter Templates & Budget Planner (CCA request letter N)and other templates)

 

Debt Collection Agencies & Statutory Demands, a few strategies

 

Abbey charges, Won

B-card non-disclosure of S.A.R, WON £30 costs awarded

B-Card, court for harrasement, failed to defend WON £175 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/125554-28-days-later-no.html#post1422508

B-Card charges, partial refund, still fighting

Vanquis-Cabot, GIVEN UP :lol:

HFC & my mum, no brainer, no CCA http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/133330-hfc-my-mum.html#post1404514

 

PLEASE donate to CAG however small. They are fighting for YOUR rights as a consumer. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/

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that could well be "The Word" keep beavering :)

 

I am beavering - never fear!!

Like we know - more than one way to skin a rabbit !!! (is is it meant to be a cat? LOL )


My CCA skeleton argument to use in court -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/cabot/115280-useful-information.html

 

Useful Letters (CCA request is letter N)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

CAG A-Z list of useful places in CAG -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/69359-cant-find-what-youre.html

 

Introduction to Consumer Litigation -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/108467-basic-introduction-consumer-credit.html

CABOT THREADS -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/131321-cabot-threads.html

 

ALWAYS SEEK A PROFESSIONAL OPINION FROM QUALIFIED ADVISORS - any advice offered is from my own experience and knowledge - I am NOT qualified.

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Fascinating! Well done you! I wonder what shade of grey Hodson's and Cabot's chief exec's faces would go if we ALL issued proceedings against them on the same day. I love the idea of putting Hodsons out of business but they seem to think they can (and are) getting away with whatever they like.

 

I keep pestering people here with questions but am wondering if the correct ettiquette is to start my own thread? I won't ask for names but what kind of people make up the Cabot Fan Club? Is it really worth running cases by you guys?

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Fascinating! Well done you! I wonder what shade of grey Hodson's and Cabot's chief exec's faces would go if we ALL issued proceedings against them on the same day. I love the idea of putting Hodsons out of business but they seem to think they can (and are) getting away with whatever they like.

 

I keep pestering people here with questions but am wondering if the correct ettiquette is to start my own thread? I won't ask for names but what kind of people make up the Cabot Fan Club? Is it really worth running cases by you guys?

 

If you have a specific issue with Cabot then it's a good idea to begin your own thread so that all your info is kept under one roof and progress can be followed. Keep it in the Cabot section so we can all track it. You are never pestering anyone all the time it's for the same cause and you need help, ask away. We can only share what we know.

 

10th September is a good day to begin proceedings - it's Ken Maynards Birthday :D

 

Who's in The Cabot Fan Club ? - you don't want to know :p :p

 

Ken Does - but the rest of you ? nah :D :D


Cabot and the Cabot Fan Club Threads:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/73598-dealing-cabot-101-cabot.html

 

Legal Actions Explained for Businesses:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/20492-legal-actions-explained-company.html

 

Payplan CCCS Advice:

http://consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/getting-out-debt/128587-info-cccs-payplan-experiences.html?highlight=Payplan

 

How to use the Forum

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/107001-how-do-i-dummies.html

 

A click on the scales below is appreciated if my posts were helpful

Do not regard my postings or suggestions as professional advice. If in doubt seek a professional opinion.

 

PLEASE DONATE IF SUCCESSFUL - Every little helps :)

 

PLEASE, Do not Private Message me with basic questions, start your own thread and PM a link if you wish, but I will not be able to respond to all individual questions as I am very busy on numerous other things and anyway, others cannot learn from PM's. It also stifles contributions from the vast talent base this site offers from it's contributors and I'm not all that clever really! :D Thank you.

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Cabot forum is the best place for you to post thinksmart


Me Vs AA/Blair Oliver - Defaulted on CCA, Committed Criminal Offence, started chasing payment

 

Me Vs Great Universal - Wrote off the 2k balance, couldnt supply docs

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/74209-me-littlewoods-catalogue.html

 

My Friend Vs Lowell Portfolio - Balance written off, all action stopped!

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/75075-my-friend-lowell-victory.html

 

My Friend Vs Empire Catalogue - Balance Cleared

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collectors-debt-collection/75713-my-friend-empire-droyds.html

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lol we shoulda all issued court action against them couple days ago, so he would of "Received" lots of friendy letters actualyl on the 10th. with lots of love from CAG, we get to ruin one special day for him then just like he's ruined us


If my advice has been helpful please feel free to click on my scales :grin:

 

Creditors and DCAs - Letter Templates & Budget Planner (CCA request letter N)and other templates)

 

Debt Collection Agencies & Statutory Demands, a few strategies

 

Abbey charges, Won

B-card non-disclosure of S.A.R, WON £30 costs awarded

B-Card, court for harrasement, failed to defend WON £175 http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/125554-28-days-later-no.html#post1422508

B-Card charges, partial refund, still fighting

Vanquis-Cabot, GIVEN UP :lol:

HFC & my mum, no brainer, no CCA http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/133330-hfc-my-mum.html#post1404514

 

PLEASE donate to CAG however small. They are fighting for YOUR rights as a consumer. http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/

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lol we shoulda all issued court action against them couple days ago, so he would of "Received" lots of friendy letters actualyl on the 10th. with lots of love from CAG, we get to ruin one special day for him then just like he's ruined us

 

 

He probably don't even read his post (probably illiterate and why he don't understand the consumer laws surrounding the job he is doing).

 

Maybe we send the man some A,B,C books and help him out a little - maybe once he learns to read properly he might understand why we so annoyed at what he is doing to people?


My CCA skeleton argument to use in court -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/cabot/115280-useful-information.html

 

Useful Letters (CCA request is letter N)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

CAG A-Z list of useful places in CAG -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/69359-cant-find-what-youre.html

 

Introduction to Consumer Litigation -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/108467-basic-introduction-consumer-credit.html

CABOT THREADS -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/131321-cabot-threads.html

 

ALWAYS SEEK A PROFESSIONAL OPINION FROM QUALIFIED ADVISORS - any advice offered is from my own experience and knowledge - I am NOT qualified.

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I haven't heard a word off Cabots - me reckons they are hoping I will go away!!!

 

They've had their 8 weeks now so we just have to apply to court before 4th November to ask for another hearing date now - and will deal with Cabot on that date as we get it to hearing again.

 

I shall be writing to Judge this week and will write the next hearing date here as soon as we get it. Cabot's just don't seem to want to show these CCA's do they?


My CCA skeleton argument to use in court -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/cabot/115280-useful-information.html

 

Useful Letters (CCA request is letter N)

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/20758-creditors-dcas-letter-templates.html

 

CAG A-Z list of useful places in CAG -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/welcome-consumer-forums/69359-cant-find-what-youre.html

 

Introduction to Consumer Litigation -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt/108467-basic-introduction-consumer-credit.html

CABOT THREADS -

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/131321-cabot-threads.html

 

ALWAYS SEEK A PROFESSIONAL OPINION FROM QUALIFIED ADVISORS - any advice offered is from my own experience and knowledge - I am NOT qualified.

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