***RBS PPI Claim Long fight but, WON***

[alanalana]

I am about to embark on a claim for recovery of PPI payments and interest.

I have prepared a letter as follows:

 

Mr alanalana

(full address)

 

 

The Royal Bank of Scotland

(full address)

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Re: Policy number: XXX

 

 

I believe I have been mis-sold a payment protection insurance policy and would like to request a full refund of my premiums, plus interest paid.

I took out a £xxx unsecured personal loan at your xxx branch on 21st August 2006 and also bought a Payment Protection Insurance policy (PPI) which would cost me an extra £xxx over the life of the loan. The salesperson who sold me the policy did not disclose all of the facts relevant to the PPI.

 

Firstly I was not given the correct information when the policy was sold to me, as your salesperson did not give me detailed information on what the policy would and would not cover. For example that the loan only covered the first 12 months should I become unable to work as a result of disability or unemployment. It should have been explained to me that the policy would not cover the full period of my loan term.

 

Secondly I was not informed that I had the option to buy payment protection insurance (PPI) from an independent provider to cover the loan at a more competitive price.

 

I was also not informed that the interest on the PPI would be payable over the full term of the loan.

 

Having recently looked at the paperwork for my loan I now realise that I have been paying for insurance (and the interest on that insurance). I believe that having cancelled the PPI, I am entitled to a refund of the payments made as no claim was made on the policy.

I am requesting a full refund of all my insurance payments that I have paid to date which are 5 payments of £xxx. The Insurance loan repayment figure was £xxx and the main loan repayment is £xxx yet after the cancellation of the PPI the monthly repayment was revised to £xxx some £10.06 more than the loan repayment figure listed on the loan agreement document i.e. £xxx.

 

As I believe I have been deprived of this money I also expect the statutory interest at 8% the amount a court would award, to be added to the payments made i.e. £xxx. Total £xxx. You will note from my earlier correspondence that I expressed concern that having paid 5 monthly repayments of £xxx totalling £xxx, you informed me on the 8th February that the total amount outstanding on the loan was £xxx. The last payment of £xxx was recovered from my account on the 22nd January 2007 some 17 days after receiving a letter from xxxxx xxxxxxx at the South West Customer Service Centre dated 5th January 2007 confirming the cancellation of the PPI.

 

I look forward to a full and prompt response to this letter and for the matter to be concluded within eight weeks or I shall be contacting the Financial Ombudsman to investigate my complaint.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

 

alanalana

 

Any advice before submission would be appreciated.

Thank you

[hellhasnofury]

I am about to embark on a claim for recovery of PPI payments and interest.

I have prepared a letter as follows:

 

Mr alanalana

(full address)

 

 

The Royal Bank of Scotland

(full address)

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Re: Policy number: XXX

 

 

I believe I have been mis-sold a payment protection insurance policy and would like to request a full refund of my premiums, plus interest paid.

I took out a £xxx unsecured personal loan at your xxx branch on 21st August 2006 and also bought a Payment Protection Insurance policy (PPI) which would cost me an extra £xxx over the life of the loan. The salesperson who sold me the policy did not disclose all of the facts relevant to the PPI.

 

Firstly I was not given the correct information when the policy was sold to me, as your salesperson did not give me detailed information on what the policy would and would not cover. For example that the loan only covered the first 12 months should I become unable to work as a result of disability or unemployment. It should have been explained to me that the policy would not cover the full period of my loan term.

 

Secondly I was not informed that I had the option to buy payment protection insurance (PPI) from an independent provider to cover the loan at a more competitive price. I would maybe omit this part as they are under no obligtion to inform you of this. They are a business, who like them all are profit driven:eek:

 

I was also not informed that the interest on the PPI would be payable over the full term of the loan.

 

Having recently looked at the paperwork for my loan I now realise that I have been paying for insurance (and the interest on that insurance). I believe that having cancelled the PPI, I am entitled to a refund of the payments made as no claim was made on the policy. Not to sure about that one???????

I am requesting a full refund of all my insurance payments that I have paid to date which are 5 payments of £xxx. The Insurance loan repayment figure was £xxx and the main loan repayment is £xxx yet after the cancellation of the PPI the monthly repayment was revised to £xxx some £10.06 more than the loan repayment figure listed on the loan agreement document i.e. £xxx.

 

As I believe I have been deprived of this money I also expect the statutory interest at 8% the amount a court would award, to be added to the payments made i.e. £xxx. Total £xxx. You will note from my earlier correspondence that I expressed concern that having paid 5 monthly repayments of £xxx totalling £xxx, you informed me on the 8th February that the total amount outstanding on the loan was £xxx. The last payment of £xxx was recovered from my account on the 22nd January 2007 some 17 days after receiving a letter from xxxxx xxxxxxx at the South West Customer Service Centre dated 5th January 2007 confirming the cancellation of the PPI.

 

I look forward to a full and prompt response to this letter and for the matter to be concluded within eight weeks or I shall be contacting the Financial Ombudsman to investigate my complaint.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

 

alanalana

 

Any advice before submission would be appreciated.

Thank you

Hello alan,

I have just read your letter and posted a few tips in red. Don't rush to send your letter till you feel that it is 100% right, but that is my own opinion.

I am not saying this letter is any better, but you may be able to pinch a few bits, to make your letter a bit meater.

Dear Sir or Madam

Loan Account no: xxxxxxxx

 

I write in response to my recent Subject Access Request dated 14th January 2007. I thank you for your information. After reading the information it has now come to my attention, that the loan account no xxxxxxx, which I took out on the 4th April 2001 had payment protection insurance applied to it. the loan was for £xxxxx plus £xxxxxxxx charge for credit/ interest. The payment protection insurance was calculated by yourselves at £xxxxxx. Total amount of money payable £xxxxx over xxx years and I would assume unless otherwise directed by yourselves that 8,9% interest on the ppi of £xxxxx was included into the interest applied to this loan. The insurance policy no of the payment protection insurance is xxxx. I have never received any policy or terms and conditions regarding this policy. I have received this information from the SAR you have recently sent to me

 

I am extremely disappointed that your company have conveniently failed to locate any copies of Contracts regarding the loan. I feel this statement hard to believe that you cannot locate these documents and by law under the data Protection Act 1998 and the Limitation Act of 1980 you must supply me with this information. There was another loan running prior to the above loan which I have also request information about. I shall be reporting this matter to the Information Commissioners Office.

 

When I took the loan with your company, I was not given offered a full and detailed explanation of payment protection insurance and was lead to believe by your company/representative that it was part of the conditions of the loan. I have thought that for the last five years and more. It has only become apparent to me after the recent coverage by the media, and following the recent OFT and FSA investigations regarding the mis-selling of ppi by finance companies.. This is when I requested the Subject Access Request. Regarding the loan with the ppi applied, I believe I that I have been gravely mis-led and have been mis-sold this expensive insurance that I did not need or want.. At the time of this application I was enduring financial difficulties and being my main bank account of this you were well aware. I am frankly shocked that you have operated my loan account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

 

Your responsibilities

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

 

Firstly, I understand that at the time I entered into the loan contract with you your bank was running an incentive scheme to encourage your employees to sell PPI schemes, as were several other High Street banks. This information was posted on a public website in September last year:

 

 

SECRET documents leaked from two major banks show how bosses get their staff to sell big loans and the profitable insurance policies that go with them Commission tables for the RBOS and NatWest reveal a score system in which bank workers amass disproportionally more points for selling larger loans and for those sold with insurance - sparking fears that inappropriate products are being pushed

.

In-branch customer service advisers are able to earn a quarterly bonus of £1,200 if they consistently reach a weekly target of about 2,700 points over three months and if their branch also reaches its three-monthly target. Staff earn 30 points if they sell a customer a personal loan of between £3,000 and £4,999, but they earn 90 points if the loan is sold with payment protection insurance - the controversial cover that is supposed to pay out if a borrower loses their income.

 

I was not aware of this and even if it is untrue, I consider that there was a clear conflict of interest between your fiduciary responsibilities to me and the direct selling by your employees of PPI schemes, given the very large profit margins they generate.

 

When I took the loan/loans with your company, I was not offered a full and detailed explanation of payment protection insurance and was led to believe by your company/representative that it was part of the conditions of the loan. I have thought that for the last five years and more. It has only become apparent to me after the recent coverage by the media, and following the recent OFT and FSA investigations regarding the mis-selling of ppi by finance companies.. This is when I requested the Subject Access Request of the 14th January 2007.

 

Regarding the loans with the ppi applied, I believe I that I have been gravely mis-led by your company at a time when I was facing financial difficulties and have been mis-sold this expensive insurances that I did not need or want.. At the time of this application I was in full-time employment with no risk of redundancy ,a fully paid salary for 6months of sickness, had a generous life insurance and critical illness insurance policies.

 

 

No attempt was made to ascertain if the product provided was fit for purpose, suitable for my needs or if indeed it at all. No inquiry was made as whether I had pre-existing insurance for accident, illness or unemployment. I was not given a copy of the insurance policy nor were any rights to cancel explained. I believe you manifestly failed in your fiduciary responsibilities, your duty of care.

 

Secondly, I understand under the Consumer Credit Acts and following a House of Lords judgment, that you are not allowed to make a loan conditional on taking PPI unless you include the costs of PPI as part of the charge for credit and not the credit itself.

 

You did not do this. You added it to the total for credit and then charged me further interest on the premium on top of the interest for the loan. This is unacceptable.

 

Finally I believe insurance contracts are contracts uberrimae fidei (contracts of the utmost good faith) which imposes on you a “duty of disclosure of all material facts because one party is in a strong position to know the truth.” Inter alia, I believe that you should have disclosed to me that the type of policy you sold me, a single payment premium, did not give a pro-rata refund in event of early settlement. I believe you should have made it clear to me that the policy generated large profits for you. You failed to do this. I believe that you have also therefore failed in your duty of disclosure. Your failure to disclose is misrepresentation at common law.

 

What I require

 

Your concealment of the act of mis-selling has prevented me from asserting my right until now. I believe that there are strong grounds for action against you under common law, statute and consumer regulations.

 

The original premium was £xxxx added to the loan amount on the 4th April 2001. I presume that interest at 8.9% was added to this amount.(unless you can inform me otherwise). Interest £xxxxxx Total amount £xxxxxx. The Statutory 8% interest (S69 of the County Court Act) allowed by the Courts will amount to £xxxxx Making the total amount payable at the Court Stage £xxxxxxx.

 

My targets to resolve this matter

I am writing to ask you to refund the premium paid together with interest equal to your APR at the time under the accepted principle of mutuality and reciprocity.

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you will prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets. I will give you 14 days to reply to me accepting, unconditionally, my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive this payment.

 

If you do not respond, or you do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a letter before action giving you a further 14 days in which to reflect. I believe that this time frame is sufficient for a large company such as yours with its dedicated staff and departments. After that, there will be no further communication from me and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

 

 

 

 

[callumsgran]

Excellent letter, have copied it for my own use later on if thats ok with you?

Thanks

[alanalana]

hellhasnofury

 

Many thanks for the advice I will ensure it's good before I send it.

 

al

[alanalana]

Hello all,

 

saga so far.

 

Rather than hit my helpful bank with immediate mis-selling claim I submitted S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) in Jan (recorded delivery).

I requested all details on loans with direct line (X loans) and RBS (X loans) including all data in whatever format plus details of PPI insurance details inlcuding interest payments.

 

I received a reply stating a full statement for my account would be forth coming (which was not requested) I already claimed back charges and won.

 

They also stated that a statement would be forthcoming for my current loan ( which duly arrived ) However they stated thy could not trace earlier loans and asked for more information and that I should approach Direct Line for information on the loans with them. (Direct Line operates as a subsidiary of RBS)!!

 

The information was provided in the form of copies of the credit agreements for the loans including details of the PPI.

 

The Information was passed on to my branch and details of the second loan in the form of payments and settlement was forthcoming but they were having trouble tracing the first loan details.

 

They asked for further details ie copies of the reverse of the credit agreements which should have further information to help them.

The information was not on the reverse of the forms and I have now responded with a letter informing them of that and stating that the terms of the original SAR have not been met as I have not received any details from them on the PPI and Interest on each of the loans.

 

My last letter stated that they had not complied with my initial SAR letter and that I thought a full and comprehensive search should be carried out to trace the missing data on my first loan. (letter posted 18 Feb).

 

No reply received so far.

 

Question is it now time to submit letter for mis-sold PPI with the loans?

 

I have several points on this.

 

When I have been offered a refinancing loan: (usually a monthly how can we help you call)!

• I have never been asked if I had a pre existing medical condition.
  
• It appears that on each of the credit agreements the PPI is applied as a single premium and added to the loan with interest but the interest is shown as seperate figure from the loan interest.
  
• When I have refinanced or asked for a settlement figure there has been no refund on the PPI.
  
• During my last offer from the bank for refinancing I mentioned that I had a period off work for six months with a bad back could I make a claim? (I was informed that no retrospective claim could be made)
  
• The customer service advisor still applied PPI to the loan even though the policy statement has exclusions:

"DISABILITY EXCLUSIONS" Your Disability is due to a back related condition unless there is radilogical evidence of medical abnormality, visible wound, contusion, or a consultant certifies that the condition solely prevents you from working or etc etc.

 

I am an ex serviceman with a 40% disability pension from 1991 (Including back pain syndrome, strain to hip and mental trauma) and not one banking customer sales advisor has ever asked me if I had a pre existing medical condition.

 

Question: If the advice is to claim, can I claim back the single premium payments on each of the loans plus the interest paid on those premiums until refinancing was completed?

 

Help from you peeps in the know would be much appreciated.

 

Regards and good luck with your own battles.

 

al

[hellhasnofury]

Hello all,

 

saga so far.

 

Rather than hit my helpful bank with immediate mis-selling claim I submitted S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) in Jan (recorded delivery).

I requested all details on loans with direct line (X loans) and RBS (X loans) including all data in whatever format plus details of PPI insurance details inlcuding interest payments.

 

I received a reply stating a full statement for my account would be forth coming (which was not requested) I already claimed back charges and won.

 

They also stated that a statement would be forthcoming for my current loan ( which duly arrived ) However they stated thy could not trace earlier loans and asked for more information and that I should approach Direct Line for information on the loans with them. (Direct Line operates as a subsidiary of RBS)!!

 

The information was provided in the form of copies of the credit agreements for the loans including details of the PPI.

 

The Information was passed on to my branch and details of the second loan in the form of payments and settlement was forthcoming but they were having trouble tracing the first loan details.

 

They asked for further details ie copies of the reverse of the credit agreements which should have further information to help them.

The information was not on the reverse of the forms and I have now responded with a letter informing them of that and stating that the terms of the original S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) have not been met as I have not received any details from them on the PPI and Interest on each of the loans.

 

My last letter stated that they had not complied with my initial SAR letter and that I thought a full and comprehensive search should be carried out to trace the missing data on my first loan. (letter posted 18 Feb).

 

No reply received so far.

 

Question is it now time to submit letter for mis-sold PPI with the loans?

 

I have several points on this.

 

When I have been offered a refinancing loan: (usually a monthly how can we help you call)!

• I have never been asked if I had a pre existing medical condition.They should follow a needs and demand format for assessment of your requirements.
  
• It appears that on each of the credit agreements the PPI is applied as a single premium and added to the loan with interest but the interest is shown as seperate figure from the loan interest. All the easier for your to calculate it
  
• When I have refinanced or asked for a settlement figure there has been no refund on the PPI. Sorry are you sure of this, they normally refund it into the balance of new loan
  
• During my last offer from the bank for refinancing I mentioned that I had a period off work for six months with a bad back could I make a claim? (I was informed that no retrospective claim could be made)Maybe ask for clarification of this statement,
  
• The customer service advisor still applied PPI to the loan even though the policy statement has exclusions: To be honest, they probably just wanted the sale.

"DISABILITY EXCLUSIONS" Your Disability is due to a back related condition unless there is radilogical evidence of medical abnormality, visible wound, contusion, or a consultant certifies that the condition solely prevents you from working or etc etc.

 

I am an ex serviceman with a 40% disability pension from 1991 (Including back pain syndrome, strain to hip and mental trauma) and not one banking customer sales advisor has ever asked me if I had a pre existing medical condition. They sold you a expensive insurance policy that was of no benifit to you

 

Question: If the advice is to claim, can I claim back the single premium payments on each of the loans plus the interest paid on those premiums until refinancing was completed?I would say so:grin:

Help from you peeps in the know would be much appreciated.

 

Regards and good luck with your own battles.

 

al

Hello Alanalana,

 

Send them this letter, re the non-compliance of the SAR

 

Data Protection Act - Non-Compliance - Template Letters

 

You may have to make a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office, if they don't come up with the goodies.

[alanalana]

Thanks to hellhasnofury,

 

You were right about the refinance element.

 

I have today received a copy of the statement for my first loan.

 

Will I be entitled to the recovery of :

 

The premium or part of the premium from the initial credit agreement until refinancing?

 

The Interest on those agreements until refinancing or cancellation of the policy as in the case of the last loan?

 

I estimate the interest on the three loans until refinancing or cancellation to be about £3K on the interest alone.

 

but should I also be entitled to a whole or part of the PPI single payment premium? I now understand that single payment premiums are frowned upon by the Financial Ombudsman Service and the Financial Services Authority. Does that add any clout to my potential claim for recovery for the PPI single payment premium on PPI?

 

Thank you for any and all assistance.

 

 

al

[alanalana]

Hi all,

I would be grateful if you could cast a critical eye over this letter and see if is suitable to start my claim rolling.

Mr A Surname

Address

 

 

9 March 2008

Bank address

Dear Sir or Madam,

Re: Account number: XXXXXXXX Sort Code XX-XX-XX

Payment Protection Insurance (PPI) policies for 3 unsecured personal refinancing loans. Reference numbers:

XX-XXXX Account No XXXX

XX-XXXX Account No XXXX

XXXXXX Account No XXXX

 

PPI policies were attached to above loans obtained from you on 8 March 2004, 20 May 2005 and 21 August 2006.I believe that I was mis-sold these PPI policies for the following reasons:

[alanalana]

Hello again,

 

after deliberation I have held off on the last letter. I have cobbled together two more. letter one re the bank failing to comply with Data Protectectin Act 1998 and letter two claiming back mis-sold PPI.

 

I am not really legally astute so would appreciate any comments on the content and whether I should post first thing tomorrow.

 

They are kind of long so will post as two separate posts.

 

Dear Mrs xxxxx,

Re: Loan accounts. Reference numbers:

xxx Account No xxxx

xxx Account No xxxx

xxx Account No xxxx

 

Thank you for your letter Ref: RBS012754-1 dated 13 February 2008.

I can now confirm receipt of copies of three statements in regard to the above loan accounts.

I would wish to point out that the full extent of information requested in my original letter Subject Access Request (SAR) dated 7 Jan 2008 and the follow up letter of 16 February has not been forthcoming. By law under the provisions of the Data Protection Act 1998 Section 7 sub section (1) ( c ) ( i ) and (ii) you are required to communicate to me in an intelligible form the information as requested within the requirements of the Act section 7 (2) (a) and (b), which as the data subject I have met.

I stated in my Subject Access Requests the following:

“Alternatively a complete set of statements for the accounts or associated accounts is acceptable. I would be grateful if you would provide the following for ALL accounts or associated accounts I have held with your organization:

- Full copies of all contracts which you believe exist or have existed between myself and your organization, including true copies of any documents you hold in support of the same.

- A complete list of all transactions or statements relating to ALL of my Loan Accounts including all details of payment protection insurance premiums applicable to those accounts with your organization.

When I request all details, I take that to include all data applicable to the loan accounts including the data on payment protection insurance (PPI) including the Terms and Conditions applicable to the insurance applied to the loans.

- Copies of all documents which include any of my personal information including copies of any contracts or invoices, emails or computer records containing my personal information, or any records which pertain to this information.

- Full copies or transcripts of any correspondence in postal, email or any other format which you have entered into with any individual, organization or third party which contains my personal or financial information, or which pertains to me.

If you are then unable to trace the information on these loans then I will require the following action to be taken by your organisation.

- Where any previous information or records held have been deleted or disposed of, the methods used to do so, including dates, certificates or references confirming details of destruction. Where you are unable to provide such certificates, please provide a declaration, signed by an authorised officer of your company, confirming the dates and methods of destruction of this data.

 

- Full hard copy print outs of my personal or financial information, held in a digital, magnetic or any other format which is held in any archives, backups or other storage devices / locations.”

To date I have not received this full information. I await the following:

1. Full details of PPI including the terms and conditions as applicable to the loans as above.

2. Full transcripts of all telephone conversations that have been recorded between your organisation and myself.

3. Full copies of all credit agreements and contracts between the RBoS and myself.

4. Full copies of any and all postal or email correspondence.

If there is no information available then I will require written confirmation of this together with as stated before full details on your methods of erasure, disposal or destruction signed by an authorised officer of your company.

Failure to respond to this third request in a fully comprehensive and satisfactory manner within 14 days, will result in the submission of a formal complaint to the Information Commissioners Office detailing your failure to comply with the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

Yours faithfully

 

alanalana

A thumbs up or down will help to spur me on thank you.

[alanalana]

The second letter is:

 

Re: Loan accounts. Reference numbers:

xxx Account No xxxx

xxx Account No xxxx

xxx Account No xxxx

References:

A. My Subject Access Request (S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)) dated 7 January 2008.

B. Your RBS012754-1 dated 22 January 2008 (Acknowledgement).

C. My Mar2/24/1/08 dated 24 January 2008 (Supply of additional information).

D. Your RBS012754-2 dated 29 January 2008(Supply of copies of statements).

E. Your RBS012754-1 dated 31 January 2008 (Forwarded information to branch).

F. Your RBS012754-3 dated 8 February 2008 (duplicate statements for two of three of the accounts).

G. Your RBS012754-1 dated 13 February 2008 (Confirmation of posting copies of two loan statements and request for more information).

H. My Mar3/16/2/08 dated 16 February 2008 (Letter stating full disclosure as requested in ref A had not been received and concern over missing data).

I. Copy of statements of first loan no letter attached.

I write in regard to the above references. Sadly you have so far failed to comply fully with my S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) for the provision of all data applicable to myself and the three loan accounts. I am submitting a separate letter on this subject to the Data Protection Officer. You have forwarded copies of the three Loan account statements for which I thank you.

In each case PPI policies were attached to the above loans obtained from you on 8 March 2004, 20 May 2005 and 21 August 2006.I believe that I was mis-sold these PPI policies for the following reasons:

 

Your sales advisors in each case, did not check my personal circumstances at the time of the sale, which they are under obligation to do. If they had done, they would have realised that a PPI policies were useless to me. At no time was any attempt made to ascertain if the product provided was fit for purpose, suitable for my needs or if indeed it was required at all.

Your sales advisors did not ask me if I had any alternative arrangements for insurance cover. My employer has a generous illness package which would cover a period of sickness as follows: 6 months full pay followed by 6 months half pay. I would also be entitled to a generous redundancy package.

· I was not informed that Pre Existing Medical Conditions could invalidate my policy and I was not asked if I had any pre existing medical conditions. I am in fact in receipt of a 40% war disablement pension from HMG since 1991. One element of this pension includes back injury which is an exclusion in your PPI Policies.

· I cancelled the PPI policy on xxx Account No xxx on 7 Jan 2007 after becoming aware of the widespread mis-selling of PPI by some financial institutions from recent media coverage and recent OFT and FSA investigations regarding the mis-selling of PPI. I understand that some employees are paid higher bonuses if they get prospective creditors to take out PPI with loans. How can the best interests of the customer be met if there is a clear conflict of interest between your responsibilities to me and the drive of your employees to sell Payment Protection Insurance in order to receive bonuses ?.

Since I cancelled the policy I have actually received a smaller reduction in the PPI loan interest payments than the figure stated on the agreement. The explanatory letter sent to me has I believe, confirmed that I have paid for single premium loan policies on each loan taken with your establishment.

No explanation was forthcoming from any advisor on the full extent of single premium policies or the fact that they would offer little or no refund if the loan was settled early or if the insurance was cancelled. There was also no explanation that the cost of the PPI would be added to the credit and interest added for the full term of the agreement. I believe this practice is unlawful.

Unless you can satisfactorily justify to me that the PPI policies attached to the loans were fair and reasonable, I am requesting a full refund of all costs including all single premiums that have been paid, the interest added to these premiums and the payments, that I have paid to date. As I believe I have been unlawfully deprived of this money I also expect interest at the rate applicable to of each of the loans at the date of the credit agreements.

 

Details of the single premiums for each account with the interest payments made are as follows:

xxx Account No xxxx

Insurance loan including interest on the loan = £6,109.32

Monthly interest payments made 8 April 2004 to 9 May 2005 £72.73 X 14 £1,018.22 Interest @ 7.2% £73.31

xxx Account No xxxx

Insurance loan including interest on the loan = £7,534.90

Monthly interest payments made 20 June 2005 to 20 July 2006 £89.70 X 14 £1,255.80 Interest @ 8.3% £104.23.

xxx Account No xxxx

Insurance loan including interest on the loan = £8448.72 Less rebate on PPI premium £5,598.03 and rebate on PPI interest £1,552.78 (£7,151.81) = £1,297.91

Monthly interest payments made 20 September 2007 to 22 January 2007 £100.58 X 5 £502.90 Interest @ 7.04% £35.40.

The total repayment figure I require is: £17,931.99p

 

I enclose copies of each of the credit agreement forms which show the PPI as a single figure loans which have been added to the loan amount and had insurance added to the total figure. I also enclose an early settlement statement on the current loan which clearly shows that an insurance premium rebate is not applicable.

 

If I do not receive a favourable response to this letter I will pursue my claim through the Financial Ombudsman, or the courts if necessary.

Yours faithfully,

alanalana

 

again a thumbs up or down will do although in Ancient Rome the thumbs down could mean send them lol

Edited June 15, 2008 by alanalana
text added

[hellhasnofury]

The second letter is:

 

Re: Loan accounts. Reference numbers:

xxx Account No xxxx

xxx Account No xxxx

xxx Account No xxxx

References:

A. My Subject Access Request (S.A.R - (Subject Access Request)) dated 7 January 2008.

B. Your RBS012754-1 dated 22 January 2008 (Acknowledgement).

C. My Mar2/24/1/08 dated 24 January 2008 (Supply of additional information).

D. Your RBS012754-2 dated 29 January 2008(Supply of copies of statements).

E. Your RBS012754-1 dated 31 January 2008 (Forwarded information to branch).

F. Your RBS012754-3 dated 8 February 2008 (duplicate statements for two of three of the accounts).

G. Your RBS012754-1 dated 13 February 2008 (Confirmation of posting copies of two loan statements and request for more information).

H. My Mar3/16/2/08 dated 16 February 2008 (Letter stating full disclosure as requested in ref A had not been received and concern over missing data).

I. Copy of statements of first loan no letter attached.

I write in regard to the above references. Sadly you have so far failed to comply fully with my SAR for the provision of all data applicable to myself and the three loan accounts. I am submitting a separate letter on this subject to the Data Protection Officer. You have forwarded copies of the three Loan account statements for which I thank you.

In each case PPI policies were attached to the above loans obtained from you on 8 March 2004, 20 May 2005 and 21 August 2006.I believe that I was mis-sold these PPI policies for the following reasons:

 

Your sales advisors in each case, did not check my personal circumstances at the time of the sale, which they are under obligation to do. If they had done, they would have realised that a PPI policies were useless to me. At no time was any attempt made to ascertain if the product provided was fit for purpose, suitable for my needs or if indeed it was required at all.

Your sales advisors did not ask me if I had any alternative arrangements for insurance cover. My employer has a generous illness package which would cover a period of sickness as follows: 6 months full pay followed by 6 months half pay. I would also be entitled to a generous redundancy package.

· I was not informed that Pre Existing Medical Conditions could invalidate my policy and I was not asked if I had any pre existing medical conditions. I am in fact in receipt of a 40% war disablement pension from HMG since 1991. One element of this pension includes back injury which is an exclusion in your PPI Policies.

· I cancelled the PPI policy on 830382 Account No 01810701 on 7 Jan 2007 after becoming aware of the widespread mis-selling of PPI by some financial institutions from recent media coverage and recent OFT and FSA investigations regarding the mis-selling of PPI. I understand that some employees are paid higher bonuses if they get prospective creditors to take out PPI with loans. How can the best interests of the customer be met if there is a clear conflict of interest between your responsibilities to me and the drive of your employees to sell Payment Protection Insurance in order to receive bonuses ?.

Since I cancelled the policy I have actually received a smaller reduction in the PPI loan interest payments than the figure stated on the agreement. The explanatory letter sent to me has I believe, confirmed that I have paid for single premium loan policies on each loan taken with your establishment.

No explanation was forthcoming from any advisor on the full extent of single premium policies or the fact that they would offer little or no refund if the loan was settled early or if the insurance was cancelled. There was also no explanation that the cost of the PPI would be added to the credit and interest added for the full term of the agreement. I believe this practice is unlawful.

Unless you can satisfactorily justify to me that the PPI policies attached to the loans were fair and reasonable, I am requesting a full refund of all costs including all single premiums that have been paid, the interest added to these premiums and the payments, that I have paid to date. As I believe I have been unlawfully deprived of this money I also expect interest at the rate applicable to of each of the loans at the date of the credit agreements.

 

Details of the single premiums for each account with the interest payments made are as follows:

xxx Account No xxxx

Insurance loan including interest on the loan = £6,109.32

Monthly interest payments made 8 April 2004 to 9 May 2005 £72.73 X 14 £1,018.22 Interest @ 7.2% £73.31

xxx Account No xxxx

Insurance loan including interest on the loan = £7,534.90

Monthly interest payments made 20 June 2005 to 20 July 2006 £89.70 X 14 £1,255.80 Interest @ 8.3% £104.23.

xxx Account No xxxx

Insurance loan including interest on the loan = £8448.72 Less rebate on PPI premium £5,598.03 and rebate on PPI interest £1,552.78 (£7,151.81) = £1,297.91

Monthly interest payments made 20 September 2007 to 22 January 2007 £100.58 X 5 £502.90 Interest @ 7.04% £35.40.

The total repayment figure I require is: £17,931.99p

 

I enclose copies of each of the credit agreement forms which show the PPI as a single figure loans which have been added to the loan amount and had insurance added to the total figure. I also enclose an early settlement statement on the current loan which clearly shows that an insurance premium rebate is not applicable.

 

If I do not receive a favourable response to this letter I will pursue my claim through the Financial Ombudsman.or the courts if necessary

Yours faithfully,

alanalana

 

again a thumbs up or down will do although in Ancient Rome the thumbs down could mean send them lol

 

Hello AA.

 

I give you thumbs up for both letters:grin: :grin: , the one regarding the mis-selling of ppi, I think it is important to mention the word court, the loan taken out in 2004 the FOS may not investigate that one.

[alanalana]

hellhasnofury,

 

Many thanks to you for the thumbs up. I have amended the posted copy to match your advice and the copy waiting at home will be amended and posted tomorrow.

 

Both letters to be posted simultaneously recorded delivery. :grin:

I also have a mind to complain through the FSA about the whole affair.

 

aa

[alanalana]

Both letters as per the posts on this thread are now sitting on table begging to be posted.

 

I may get refund or I may get nothing but at least now I am prepared for action.

If I get a negative response or no response which will be more than likely, then watch my post level increase, as I look for assistance in evidence collection, bundle preparation and court documentation I already have about 500 sheets of paper printed off from this site. Probably all the wrong stuff though:rolleyes:

 

yours prepared to go down fighting

 

aa

[alanalana]

Hi all,

My letters have been posted recorded (as you do). Being a total pessimist (capital P) when it comes to the integrity of banks. I have already prepared a complaint form for the Information Commissioners Office with all letters to bank and from bank so far. Relevant bits highlighted.

Ensuring Personal Data is handled correctly - Data Protection Act

 

You will find all you need on this site if your SAR falls into the hands of a bank that does not respond to your full SAR. Remember you paid £10 for the information in line with the Data Protection Act 1998. I am considering asking for a refund of the £10 as they have failed to comply with the Terms and Conditions (Banks know what this means) of the Data Protection Act 1998 (Banks do not know what this means).

 

Keep at them

 

aa:grin:

[alanalana]

Hello again,

 

this is reference to the total charge for credit TCC on the consumer credit agreement applicable to your particular loan.

 

Charges for payment protection insurance

Lenders sometimes require borrowers or their relatives to take out or

maintain an insurance contract which will make sure that the credit and other charges in the TCC due under the agreement are paid if the borrower dies, falls ill, or becomes invalided or unemployed. This is generally known as payment protection insurance (PPI) or accident, sickness and unemployment (ASU) insurance. Where this is the only purpose of the insurance contract, the premiums payable under it are included in the TCC.

Notes:

1. Charges which arise under ‘optional’ arrangements, ie those the borrower can choose to take out but which are not required under the transaction or as a condition of getting the credit, will not form part of the TCC.

However, it is important to consider whether the arrangement is genuinely

optional in relation to the transaction in question. For example, if a lender

indicates that PPI is optional (for example, by providing a box on the

application form that must be ticked to select PPI), but refuses applications from those who do not choose to take it, it is not really optional.

Similarly, if a lender offers credit on different contractual terms to customers who do, or do not, select a particular option then, when calculating the APR for an agreement the terms of which apply only where the option is selected, any charges made as a result of selecting the option will be included in the TCC for that agreement.

 

My point in posting this is: (any legal minds please confirm this)

 

If the agreement was optional or mentioned as optional on the Credit agreement then the cost of the PPI premium or interest on that premium should not be included in the Total Charge for Credit TCC.

 

If they are included then the agreement could be seen to be in contravention of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. If this is the case it could help in claiming back PPI in rendering the original credit agreement invalid, and unenforceable.

 

Now this is a laymans understanding so check up with a legal person before you act.

 

The information is from the OFT credit charges and APR document it is listed in my links thread.

 

aa

[alanalana]

Hello all,

 

just received this response from RBS (Yet another delaying tactic)

 

OurRef:SARxxxx

Your Ref

RBS

The Royal Bank of Scotland

Retail Regulatory Risk

Business House B

PO Box 1000

Edinburgh

EH121HQ

Facsimile: 0131 6263049

 

Strictly Private and Confidential

Mr Name

Address

25 March, 2008

 

Dear Mr xxx,

DATA PROTECTION ACT 1998

 

Thank you for your application requesting your personal data held by the Bank.

Any information that is required to be provided to you under Section 7 of the Data Protection Act will be forwarded to you at the above address as soon as possible.

If you would like transcripts of telephone conversations,please provide us with dates, times and who you spoke to

(i.e. departments or telephone number), so that we are able to locate these. Please note that not every telephone call is recorded.

If you have any queries relating to this matter please do not hesitate to contact me at the address shown above.

Yours sincerely,

 

Joyce E Tudor

Retail Regulatory Risk

The Royal Bank of Scotland pic, Registered in Scotland No 90312

Registered Office: 36 St Andrew Square, Edinburgh EH2 2YB

Authorised and regulated by the Financial Services Authority.

 

SAR Posted 7 Jan 08

 

My response to follow on next post

 

aa

[alanalana]

Hello all,

 

My response:

 

My Ref: xxx

Your Ref: SARxxxx Mr name

Address

 

 

The Royal Bank of Scotland

Retail Regulatory Risk

Business House B

P o Box 1000

Edinburgh

EH12 1HQ

 

 

28 March 2008

 

 

Dear Mrs Tudor,

 

DATA PROTECTION ACT 1998

Thank you for your letter Ref: SARxxxx dated 25 March 2008.

I am extremely disappointed that despite having issued my original Subject Access Request (SAR) on the 7 Jan 2008 that you still seem to be using delaying tactics in providing the information I am entitled to by Law within the terms of the Data Protection Act 1998. Under Section 7 sub section (1) ( c ) ( i ) and (ii) you are required to communicate to me in an intelligible form, the information as requested within the requirements of the Act section 7 (2) (a) and (b), which as the data subject I have met.

 

I would point out that the Act allows you 40 days in which to provide the information I have requested. You have failed to meet this timescale by 38 days to the date of your letter Ref (as above). Despite the assistance I have provided to your establishment on 22 January 2008 and 16 February 2008 you have still not responded in the statutory timescale.

My letters of 7 January 2008, 16 February 2008 and lastly 12 March 2008 seem largely to have been ignored up until your letter Ref: SARxxxx received by me today 28 March 2008.

 

Your letter is now asking me to provide further information in regard to transcripts of telephone conversations, i.e. dates, times, who I spoke to, which departments or telephone number. I note your comment that “Please note that not every telephone call is recorded”.

 

I require full transcripts of all telephone conversations between your Peterhead branch and myself and specifically calls from any of your Peterhead branch staff Customer advisors or others, to my home or workplace telephone numbers for as far back as you hold data on me and at least for the past 6 years up to 7 January 2008, the date of my SAR.

 

My letter of 12 March was specific in detailing the information I required. I required all details.

To date you have only provided copies of statements of my current account and three loan accounts.

 

In my letter of 12 Mar 2008 I stated the following:

 

“Failure to respond to this third request in a fully comprehensive and satisfactory manner within 14 days, will result in the submission of a formal complaint to the Information Commissioners Office detailing your failure to comply with the Data Protection Act 1998“.

 

This 14 day period expires on 30 March 2008 and if the information I have requested is not received by then, the formal complaint to the ICO which is quoted above from my letter of 12 march 2008 will be submitted shortly thereafter.

 

Yours faithfully

aa

ICO pack ready to post first thing Monday.

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Alanalana!

 

Thought I'd give you a rest from Posting! Just a quick one to say many are watching this I'm sure, as I am, just not yet able to help.

 

It's virgin PPI territory, which may explain the limited help so far. But keep at it, if anyone can help, I am sure they will jump in when they can.

 

RBS are certainly delaying things, watching this is helping me to tweak my own initial Subject Access Request (S.A.R.) Letters to try and cover all angles in tiny-tot language that even a banker cannot fail to understand!

 

I'm almost considering drawing up an S.A.R. Letter as a sort of Tick Box check List, and instruct them to Tick all the Boxes before claiming to have satisfied my S.A.R. request.

 

Perhaps start with...

 

(1) ALL Voice Recordings that involved me in any shape or form, at any date to any branch or any employee of your tiresome organisation [ ]

 

...

 

...

 

...

 

(859) A list of all Telephone Numbers you have against my details, such as my Neighbours, Relatives, Friends, ex-Friends or my Local Pub, that you think is OK to Harass me on [ ]

 

Then keep sending it back during the 40 Days with a big ring around any Tick Boxes they have failed to handle and tick as requested.

 

If they fail or bluff or bluster, don't send them long Letters, just re-send the S.A.R. Check List with red rings around the missing bits:

 

"hello bank, time running out, suggest you jolly well crack on with Tick Boxes 3, 9, 21, and 178...as you have yet to furnish me with this Information that you hold about me as the Subject."

 

Give them no room to trot out nonsense about asking you to say when and whom you spoke to. Look bank, just give me all the damn Call Logs, what exactly don't you understand about that?

 

Keep up the good work.

 

Cheers,

BRW

 

P.S. remind myself not to bank with RBS either!

[alanalana]

Hello BRW,

 

Thanks for the post it really does help to get a break from posting everything from yourself to yourself! I sometimes forget what I tell myself:D

 

As you will see from my response they have exceeded the statutory limit of time (40 days) and so as I posted the response to them I also posted a formal complaint to the Information Commissioners Office enclosing all copies of all correspondence to date. 11 Enclosures actually:rolleyes: . ( There was no way they would get the information to me by Sunday 30 Mar ).

 

My other letter claiming back the PPI sent recorded delivery (as you do) has not been delivered, since posting on 14 March, so I now have a complaint in against Royal Mail for losing Private and Confidential information including all my account details, names, addresses, and all the details of amounts and claims.

 

It's a shame we cannot have Court powers and be able to strike out a few banks and the odd postman.

 

When you send your S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) ask for everything see this extract from my links taken from a law site in my links thread links :

 

However, if the data subject is adamant that he or she wishes to receive a copy of everything the data controller holds on him or her, then there is very little the data controller can do about this, and a completely exhaustive search of the computerised and manually held data in the organisation will be required.

 

I have been too helpful and if they see this they will drag it out even more.

 

The longer they hold onto their ill gotten gains the more profits they earn by the second.

 

response from Information Commissioners Office will be posted when received.

 

Yours in reclaiming the right

aa

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello Alanalana!

 

I rather like this bit...

 

However, if the data subject is adamant that he or she wishes to receive a copy of everything the data controller holds on him or her, then there is very little the data controller can do about this, and a completely exhaustive search of the computerised and manually held data in the organisation will be required.

 

Excellent, must make sure my Subject Access Request (S.A.R.) has at least 200-300 bankers working for the full 40 Days to find every last scrap of Information.

 

That has just got to be worth £10 to almost anyone!

 

Maybe if we all send them highly detailed and very demanding S.A.R. requests, we can bring some banks to their knees mired in thousands of man-hours doing S.A.R. bumf collection duties.

 

I shall have an Ale tonight and then plot to see how many people I can find who have £10 to spare and a sense of humour.

 

Have a good one.

 

Cheers,

BRW

[hellhasnofury]

Hello Alanalana!

 

I rather like this bit...

 

 

 

Excellent, must make sure my Subject Access Request (S.A.R.) has at least 200-300 bankers working for the full 40 Days to find every last scrap of Information.

 

That has just got to be worth £10 to almost anyone!

 

Maybe if we all send them highly detailed and very demanding S.A.R. requests, we can bring some banks to their knees mired in thousands of man-hours doing S.A.R. bumf collection duties.

 

I shall have an Ale tonight and then plot to see how many people I can find who have £10 to spare and a sense of humour.

 

Have a good one.

 

Cheers,

BRW

 

Come on you rebels:D Keep your chins up, we may not win every battle, but we will win the war. Just keep at them and attack from every angle. Explore all avenues to catch them out. Have they sent you your credit agreements;)

 

AA you just keep doing your homework and keep on posting, they are very helpful to others and get the mind ticking.

 

We all need to get our heads together regarding ppi claims, especialy the poc when we take them to court. there does seem to be a silence regarding this matter.

 

Maybe pm the mods for help, I do frequently and sadly no response as yet:???:

[alanalana]

Thanks to BRW and Hell,

 

The support and the humour is appreciated.

No details on CCA yet but the ICO are hopefully about to change all that

 

You could even ask them to resend the information if there was an error in the spelling. stating you have paid good money for accurate information.

 

I am trying to keep adding to the links to help all victims (soon to be survivors) of mis-sold PPI the latest is the Competition Commissioners current inquiry into PPI. it could take a while but that makes PPI the subject of interest by the OFT, the FSA, ICO, CC, The Courts and uncle tom cobbly and all.

 

It's almost tempting to send a second SAR with £10 with an alias and false address to make them panic a bit more about lost information!!!

 

Just imagining the faces makes me smile:D

 

stay well

 

aa

[alanalana]

Hello all,

 

a new twist to my saga on SAR.

 

While browsing I found a little interesting snippet. I will list the story from initial SAR.

 

I understand that you currently hold details of my personal and financial information

Within your internal record systems with regard to personal loan accounts in respect of my agreements with you dealing as the Royal Banks of Scotland and Direct Line Loans which is another trading name used by the RBS.

Please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to my history with your organization, INCLUDING Loans, payment protection insurance and other products.

This history should include details of the following:

Direct Line personal loan between August 2002 and March 2003

Direct Line personal loan between May 2003 and March 2004

RBS personal loan ref xxx between April 2004 and May 2005

RBS personal loan between June 2005 and August 2006

RBS personal loan ref xxx between September 2006 and the date of this letter.

Alternatively a complete set of statements for the accounts or associated accounts is acceptable. I would be grateful if you would provide the following for ALL accounts or associated accounts I have held with your organization:

-full copies of all contracts which you believe exist or have existed between myself and your organization, including true copies of any documents you hold in support of the same. etc etc etc

Their response the important bit:

"Finally with regard to the Direct Line personal loans that you previously held please contact Direct Line directly to obtain the information that you require.

Then I find out from the Direct Line website the following:

Legal: Transfer of Business

TRANSFER OF THE BANKING BUSINESS OF DIRECT LINE FINANCIAL SERVICES LIMITED TO THE ROYAL BANK OF SCOTLAND PLC.

etc. etc.

Then from the Financial Services Authority Register

Basic details for:

204458 - Direct Line Financial Service Limited

Current status: No longer Authorised

Effective Date: 04/07/2006

My response to this:

DATA PROTECTION ACT 1998

Your letter Ref: SARxxxx dated 25 March 2008.

Following your letter and my response Ref:xxx I will now refer you back to my original Subject Access Request (S.A.R) dated 7 January to your St Andrews Square address in Edinburgh (Copy attached). The response to that letter from Mrs S Smith Your Ref: xxx dated 22 January 2008 (Copy attached).

I am extremely angry that your Data Protection Teams response in the case of two previous Loans taken out with Direct Line Financial Services (DLFS) as listed in my S.A.R was to refer me back to Direct Line to obtain “the information that you require”.

I would point out that DLFS with whom the two loans were agreed were actually the subject of a Legal Transfer of Business on 1 March 2006 and that the business of DLFS (including all DLFS personal loans, mortgages and savings accounts (“Accounts)) has been transferred to its parent company RBS. (Copy of this notice of transfer is attached).

I also attach a copy from the Financial Services Authority (FSA) Register which shows the status of DLFS as “No Longer Authorised”.

Two further extracts from the Direct Line website are attached which show “Loans are provided by the Royal Bank of Scotland plc Trading as Direct Line“. The website is also listed and I quote “All copyright, trademarks and other intellectual property rights in the material contained on this web site belong, or are licensed to, RBS Insurances Services Limited”

As RBS have taken over all responsibilities of DLFS including Loans I will now expect a revised response in respect of my S.A.R. in so far as I now demand that you provide the information including the statements and Consumer Credit Agreements for the two Direct Line personal loans as listed in that S.A.R.

If you fail to supply the information I require within 14 days I will forward a copy of this letter to the Information Commissioners Office (ICO) with whom I have already lodged a complaint.

 

Question:

 

Should I send it:-D

 

aa

[banker_rhymes_with]

Hello aa!

 

Should I send it:grin:

 

Be a shame not to!

 

Cheers,

BRW

[norwich1]

Had a brief brouse though this thread, seems like you are having trouble with SARs.

Have you tried:

 

Reference: SECTION 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Some things SARs do not cover and SECTION 78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 dose and vice-versa