SJC v The Woolwich ***SETTLED IN FULL***

[essjaysea]

This morning I received 3 large envelopes from the Woolwich iro of my DPA SAR of 27th July. Although the account was opened back in May 1995, they have only sent records dating back to January 1999. This is the text of the letter:-

 

 

18th August 2006

 

Dear Mr XXXXXX

 

Customer Reference: XXXXXXXXXXXX

 

Thank you for your letter dated 27th July 2006 concerning your request for all the transactions from your account since your account was opened in May 1995.

 

Please find enclosed a full list of all the transactions for your account. I trust this information is sufficient for you. If you do have any further queries, please contact me on 01255 477032 and I will look into these further for you.

 

We take complaints seriously and to this end I would like to obtain your feedback on the service you have received from me. If you are willing, could I please ask you to phone our free phone number 0800 0185 333 quoting reference XXXXX to complete a short questionnaire. This will take no longer then 2 minutes. By doing this you will help me improve the quality of the service that I offer to all my customers.

 

Once again I am sorry for the problems you experienced, thank you for letting us know.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Dawn Green

Case Manager

Woolwich Telephony Customer Relations Team

 

 

This is similar to recent letters that I have read in other threads, and does not address the issue of manual intervention. But having spent the morning going through the statements with a yellow highlighter, I have identified an additional £525 in charges that were taken from the account prior to May 2000, which are likely to fall within the remit of the Limitations Act 1980. There is a possibility that when the balance of the statements are received, there may be more charges to add on.

I dont think that completing the telephone questionnaire is likely to be productive, unless they agree unconditionally to refund 100% of all their charges + interest and court costs. I think this is unlikely, so I am reluctant to take part

 

I have sent the following response to the Woolwich:-

 

 

Dawn Green

Case Manager

Woolwich Telephony Customer Relations Team

Woolwich Open Plan Customer Contact Centre

Jackson House

Jackson Road

Clacton on Sea

CO15 1WH

19th August 2006

Your Ref: XXXXXXX

Dear Ms Green

Re Customer Ref: XXXXXXXXXXX

Thank you for your letter of 18th August 2006.

I note however, that you have only enclosed statements on my account since 30th January 1999. As you know, this account was opened on 17th May 1995, so I require the balance of the transactions or statements to be received within the timescale set out in my letter of 27th July 2006.

Furthermore, I refer you to paragraph 2 and 3 of my letter of 27th July, in which I requested details of manual intervention on the account, or in the event that there was no manual intervention of any kind, confirmation of that fact. The provision of this information is covered under Section 7 (1) © (i) and (ii) of The Data Protection Act 1998.

I note from your letter however, that you have not addressed this question, or referred to it in any way.

Please send a written response to this matter, together with the balance of the statements, referred to above, within the 40 day timescale, i.e. by 9th September 2006.

Yours sincerely

[essjaysea]

Yesterday, 21st August I sent a copy of the Allocation Questionnaire to Keith Jeremiah, and asked him to email me with any proposals to resolve the case.

 

I am sure that he is a very busy man, so I will be pleasantly surprised if I get a response. It matters not, the clock is still ticking and the interest is mounting on a daily basis.

[vikkijeffrey]

Hi, been reading your posts, this is the first time i've posted.

i'm at stage 2:

 

Sent preliminary approach letter - 9th August

 

I.ve recieved letter from Barclays saying they are dealing with complaint and will get back in touch with me by 14th Sep.

 

This is where i'm a bit confused, do i wait till this date or go ahead after 14 days (10th Aug)and sent LBA????? Not sure if i'm just being a bit blonde, can someone please help!

 

Thanks Vikki

[essjaysea]

Hi Vikki

 

If you sent the preliminary letter on 9th August, then you should send the LBA on 23rd August. That gives them another 14 days to respond constructively, then if you have heard nothing, say by 8th September, then file a claim either with MCOL or by post to your local County Court. You can use the templates to do this. Dont allow them to dictate the terms, its your timetable, you stick to it!

 

Good luck, you will get all your money back as long as you are preapered to wait

[vikkijeffrey]

Thanks for replying, i sent LBA on the 24th, so just got to wait to see what happens!! I've started looking to prepare myself for next step!

Fingers crossed!

[Guest Billy Bob]

I am at the same stage as you - I called my court to ask about the fee (I'm under £1500 too) and they said no you don't need to pay anything.

What happens now - do they send a court date?

[essjaysea]

Hi Billy

 

I expect that the courts are fairly clogged up with all these claims, plus holiday period, so like you, I am waiting for a court date. Perhaps a letter or an email to KJ might speed things up a little, but dont hold your breath!!

 

Good luck with your claim. Lets hope for a resolution before Xmas!!!

[essjaysea]

An interesting development has come from the Woolwich while I have been away. Firstly, I received a very strange letter from them in reponse to my letter of 19th August.

 

24th August 2006

 

Dear Mr Xxxxxx

 

I write further to my previous letter dated 18th August 2006,in response to your original request.

 

In relation to your comments about further statements on your account, I must advise you that we are only obliged to obtain customers information for period of 6 years. As your request goes back to 1995, I am unable to send any further information to you.

 

I was under the impression that the DPA was not time specific, but anyway, it goes on..

 

I can confirm that any amendments on your account will require you to go through our security procedure. As we are unable to access a customers account without going through this security, no changes will be made until the required information is confirmed.

 

I hope you feel that that I have resolved your complaint satisfactorily etc etc....

 

Yours sincerely

 

Dawn Green

Case Manager

 

I have no idea where they got the notion that I wanted to make amendments to the account. But yet again they failed to address the issue of manual intervention. So I wrote back...

Dawn Green

Case Manager

Woolwich Telephony Customer Relations Team

Woolwich Open Plan Customer Contact Centre

Jackson House

Jackson Rd

Clacton on Sea

CO15 1WH

27th August 2006

Your Ref: XXXXXXXX

Dear Ms Green

Re: Customer Reference XXXXXXXXXXX

Thank you for your letter of 24th August

I am not entirely sure what amendments you are referring to.

I simply require confirmation from you of details of any manual intervention on the account, or in the event that there was no manual intervention of any kind, confirmation of that fact. The provision of this information is covered under Section 7 (1) © (i) and (ii) of The Data Protection Act 1998.

I am not asking you to make changes to the account; I simply require the information that has now been requested from you 3 times. I do not accept that the provision of this information should be subject to your security procedure. Each letter that I have sent bears my signature, and also my current address, both of which can be verified from the details you hold on my account.

If you feel it is necessary to discuss the matter with me verbally, then please contact me on 07XXXXXXXXX

Yours sincerely

So when I returned from holiday, I was pleasantly surprised to have received the follwing response

7th September 2006

 

Dear Mr Xxxxxx

 

 

Thank you for your letter dated 27th August 2006 relating to the information that you require about your account.

 

I can confirm that there has been no manual intervention on your account, apart from any occasions when you may have instructed us to set up standing orders, or change your address etc. This can only happen when you contact us, as we need to take you through our security process to gain access to your account.

 

If you wish to discuss this letter or you feel that there are any further issues I need to consider,please contact me on 01255 477032. I will then review your complaint further.

 

If you remain dissatisfied with our response etc etc.....

 

Yours sincerely

 

Dawn Green

Case Manager

 

So there we have it. Written confirmation that all the charges they applied to the account were fully automated.

 

I must admit that I was fully expecting them to fall back on their standard response about them not being obliged to divulge this type of information, as not covered by DPA etc etc.

So I now need to remind them that the DPA does not allow them to restrict the provision of information for 6 years. As far as I am aware the DPA is not time specific. Perhaps she is confusing this with the Limitations Act.

[essjaysea]

I sent the following letter to The Woolwich requesting the balance of the statements prior to January 1999

Dawn Green

Case Manager

Woolwich Telephony Customer Relations Team

Woolwich Open Plan Customer Contact Centre

Jackson House

Jackson Rd

Clacton on Sea

CO15 1WH

19th September 2006

Your Ref: XXXXXXX

Dear Ms Green

Re: Customer Reference XXXXXXXXXXX

Thank you for your letter of 7th September 2006.

I would like to refer you to your letter of 24th August 2006, and in particular to Paragraph 2, where you claim that you are only obliged to divulge information for a period of 6 years.

The provisions of the Data Protection Act 1998 do not permit you to arbitrarily impose a time limit in relation to a subject access request under the Act.

Accordingly, please supply me with a complete list of transactions and charges relating to the period from 17th May 1995 to 30th January 1999. Alternatively, a complete set of statements for that period will be acceptable.

Yours sincerely

[paddym]

hi essjaysea lets see what response you get back from that ?

[essjaysea]

Yes it will be interesting to see how they respond.

 

I spoke to someone at Croydon County Court yesterday, and they advised me that the judge would make a decision in the next couple of weeks re the track allocation and the hearing date.

[essjaysea]

Today received notice from Croydon County Court that the hearing will take place at 14.00 on 20th December 2006, and has been allocated by District Judge Parker to the small claims track.

 

"Each party shall deliver to every other party and to the court office copies of all documents on which he intends to rely at the hearing.....The copies shall be delivered no later than 14 days before the hearing"....

 

So, no sign of standard disclosure there, but at least some progress has been made. I will ensure that my bundles are delivered by 6th December. Whether Barclays will reciprocate remains to be seen

[essjaysea]

Received a letter from Dawn Green at The Woolwich in response to my letter of 19th September where I had questioned their policy of only supplying information under the DPA for 6 years

 

5th October 2006

"I write further to your letter dated 19th September 2006.

 

In view of the complex nature of the issue you have raised, your complaint has now been escalated to our Specialist Data Protection Unit. All of the relevant documentation has been forwarded for their attention and they will contact you directly with thier findings on completion of their review.

 

The address for correspondence is:

 

Barclays Data Protection Unit

First Floor

Block 12

Radbroke Hall

Knutsford

Cheshire

WA16 9EU

I would like to thank you for your continued patience

Yours sincerely

Dawn Green

Case Manager

Woolwich Telephony Customer Relations Team"

 

 

No doubt I will receive their standard response suggesting that everything prior to 2000 is stored on microfiche, and therefore not on a "relevant filing system", and therefore not covered under the Act.

We will see

[essjaysea]

Just heard a fascinating interview today on Moneybox, BBC Radio 4, with Gerrard Schmit, Head of Current Accounts at Lloyds TSB, attempting to justify a new scheme they have introduced where they will charge their Classic Account customers £30 for unauthorised overdrafts and £35 for bouncing payments. (New??, I thought they had been doing this for years!!)

 

Paul Lewis steered the interview to the question of what it actually cost the Lloyds TSB to bounce payments. Mr Schmit was asked 3 times whether it cost them £35 to bounce a payment.

 

After 2 attempts to deflect the question by talking about something else, Paul Lewis eventually said, "Is it yes or no?", to which there was an embarrassing silence. After a long pause Paul Lewis just said, "So you aren't saying anything then?", and the interview ended

 

BBC Radio Player

[paddym]

Typical response just like the letters they send to us ?

[essjaysea]

Yes you are right. It was fun listening to him squirm. He just didn't have the nerve to agree that their charges are disproportionate, and therefore unlawful

[essjaysea]

Received a response from Peter Townsend, Manager, Barclays Data Protection

 

DATA PROTECTION ACT

 

I refer to your letter of 19th September, which passed to this department for comments by the Woolwich.

 

Please be advised that the Woolwich statement/transactional information is kept on a database for a period that does not generally exceed 6 years. Such is the case with your accounts numbered xxxxxxx, xxxxxxxx, & xxxxxxxx. The maximum retention period for certain other types of account may be longer, although due to the method of storage [a manual system involving microfiche], the records in this respect will be excluded from the data subject access process

 

The information already supplied by the Woolwich would seem to represent both what they can provide and that which they are obliged to provide.

 

Regrettably, it does not appear that any further assistance can be offered

 

Yours sincerely

 

Peter Townsend

Manager, Barclays Data Protection

 

 

OK, well that's the kind of response I was expecting. They seem to be confirming that all information more than 6 years old is no longer kept on a database. So where is it, I wonder?

 

I am minded to write back to them to see if they will confirm exactly what has happened to it. Is it stored on microfiche, has it been deleted for good, filed away in boxes in some massive storage unit??

 

I am quite sure that if HMRC, the SFO or any relevant regulatory authority were interested in retrieving the data, it would be made available to them without question

[paddym]

of course it would but then again they wouldnt be claiming their charges back yet another smoke screen for the financial gangster i mean institutions to hide behind !

[essjaysea]

This is a letter I propose to send to Barclays in response to their letter of 9th October when they basically told me to get lost!!

 

 

Peter Townsend

Manager Barclays Data Protection

Radbroke Hall

Knutsford

WA16 9EU

 

16th October 2006

 

 

 

Re Woolwich Account Number: xxxxxxxx

 

 

I am receipt of your letter of 9th October 2006, and note the contents

 

Paragraph 2 of your letter appears to imply that any information relating to the above numbered account that was processed by you prior to 30th January 1999 is no longer held on a database.

 

Accordingly, under the provisions of the Data Protection Act 1998, please confirm the date when this information was removed from your database, its current whereabouts, and in what form it is now held.

 

Please be aware that I am familiar with the provisions of The Data Protection Act 1998. Should you be unwilling, or unable, to comply with this request, it is my intention to pursue the matter, initially with a complaint to the Information Commissioner, and ultimately with court proceedings, in order to achieve a satisfactory resolution of this matter.

 

 

 

Yours sincerely

[paddym]

straight to the point im sure thatll ruffle a few feathers well done !

[essjaysea]

*********WOOLWICH SETTLED IN FULL*********

 

Yesterday, with just 7 days to go before the hearing date, I had a call on my cellphone from Anthony Lombardi from Barclays Litigation & Disputes offering to settle the claim. He suggested that his colleagues at the Woolwich could only identify some £300 worth of charges. I explained that I had evidence, which was included in the bundle that had been submitted to him, that the charges totalled £522.50. He advised that he had not seen the bundle, but would see if he could locate it and get back to me.

 

He called back within 20 minutes, (having found the bundle), and offered to settle for £824.75. As I was not in my office at the time, I advised him that I would have to check my file to see if this was the full amount. He agreed that I should contact him again the following day.

 

This morning I checked my file, and realised that they were in fact offering the full amount of the claim, but the interest had only been calculated up to 4th July 2006, the date the claim was filed with Croydon County Court.

 

So I sent the following email.

 

"Dear Mr Lombardi

 

I refer to our telephone conversation of yesterday. You offered a sum of £824.74 in full and final settlement of this claim. However, you do not appear to have included the interest applicable up to and including the hearing date of 20th December 2006. You appear to have derived your interest figure from the "Schedule of Charges" that was submitted when proceedings were issued on 4th July 2006.

 

I refer you to Item 2.1 in the bundle, where the correct interest figure of £237.99 has been calculated, giving a revised claim of £760.49. When the court fees are added, this amounts to £840.49

 

If you are prepared to offer £840.49 unconditionally in full and final settlement, then I will accept your offer, and notify the court once funds have been received.

 

Please fax your offer to XXXX XXX XXXX

 

Yours sincerely"

 

Within 20 minutes he faxed me with the standard Barclays offer

 

"I refer to the above proceedings

 

As you will have seen from our Defence, we consider that your claim lacks merit and that it will fail. In particular, we disagree with your legal analysis that the charges levied to your account with Barclays amount to penalty clauses and are unfair. We do, however, recognise that the sum at issue between us is relatively modest and as such, it is not cost effective for either party to take this matter to trial. Therefore, in order to avoid the inevitable time and cost associated with pursuing the claim to trial, we are prepared to settle your claim upon payment of the charges applied to your account, together with statutory interest and costs totalling £840.49, subject to the terms set out in this letter.

 

This offer to pay £840.49 is in full and final settlement of your claim, and is strictly without any admission of liability on our part. By accepting this offer, you also agree that the existence and the terms of this offer are confidential between us.

 

If you agree to the terms of this letter, please sign and return a copy of this letter to me at the above address within the next 7 days. You will also need to notify the County Court, in writing, that you have discontinued your claim against us. Please forward a copy of your letter to the Court when you return a signed copy of this letter to us.

 

Payment to be made to your Barclays account.

 

Should you decide to reject this offer, then we reserve the right to disclose this letter to the Court.

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Anthony Lombardi

Legal Clerk"

 

It still amazes me that they continue to have the audacity to suggest that our cases "lack merit and that they will fail" Anyway I emailed my response as follows

 

"Dear Mr Lombardi

I refer to your fax just received.

 

I am happy to accept your offer of £840.49 in full and final settlement of this claim.

 

However, I am not prepared to be bound by a confidentiality clause, as set out in Paragraph 3 of your fax. If you are prepared to delete this clause from your offer, then I will will sign the offer and notify the court once funds are received.

 

Please note that funds should be paid to my Woolwich Account No XXXXXX Sort Code XX XX XX

 

Yours sincerely"

 

 

 

Just over an hour later I received the follwing email from Mr Lombardi

 

"Dear Mr XXXX

 

In order to speed things up, if you are unhappy with the confidentiality clause you can delete it on you settlement letter and send the amended version back to me.

 

Provided it is clearly crossed out this will be fine."

 

 

 

So that is precisely what I did. I deleted the clause, signed the agreement and faxed it back to him.

 

Within 20 minutes, he emailed me to say that he had received the fax and would arrange for the funds to be transferred

 

 

So Victory at last. It has taken just over 6 months since I sent the preliminary letter, and shows that if you are prepared to wait, you will get the full amount in the end. Am now off to make a donation to the site and to PM a Mod to let him know this site has yet another success.

 

Good luck to all who are still claiming. Success is guaranteed as long as you hang in there and follow the correct procedures.

[Thailand]

WOOHOO!!!

I was wondering what was happening with your claim, I am soooo pleased for you - a fantastic result considering your claim lacked merit hahahahha!

[paddym]

Well done SJC ! you and Thai have got what you started this for now for Bigal and myself TO GET OURS SORTED !

[jonni2bad]

CONGRATULATIONS

 

Don't forget to take the SURVEY

[e28bigalbexley]

Bet you look just like this SJ (but wiv legs) Well done

 

Barclays do seem to have a strange way of looking at things, I hope i dont get that letter that says 'fail' Thai and Paddy keep making me feel like a failure with my choice of footie team:(. Still the way Barclays look at it if we dont get anymore points this season we will finish top of the Prem because we (west ham) 'Failed'.

 

CONGRATS AL.