BLS No CCA but still demanding payment

[pt2537]

well no worries then, its a scare tactic

[poker_mad]

I may decide to apply for a stay as I have a claim against Lloyds tsb which has been stayed so they have an advantage. What do you think?

[pt2537]

I dont see any reason to apply for a stay here, as it stands they are on a loser as the document they supplied you does not contain any prescribed terms and provides you a complete defence to their legal action

[poker_mad]

Do you think a letter would be suitable at this point or should I just ignore their mistake. I wonder when they will realise that im more than willing to go all the way with this one.

[Boro]

Subscribed, i realy cannot believe the stupidity here, best of luck not that you should need it here

[Goldlady]

They really are beyond belief! Subscribing as we expect similar idiocy, having told them many times that they actually owe us £1000. They have today written to say we can pay them back at £30 a month totally ignoring our many letters telling them it is actually the other way round. I shall be sending them a letter on similar lines to theirs letting them pay us back at £30 a month if they are struggling to find the money:D

 

Your court case should be fun:lol:

[pt2537]

Hi Goldlady

 

It makes me wonder how many other poor souls there are out there suffering this same fate.

 

its unbelievable that companies who you would expect to know how to comply with the law can get things so wrong, after all its harder to get it wrong than it is to get it right

 

the biggest thing we can do is to make people aware of their rights through forums such as this one

 

still,if we can stop one person suffering these idjits then thats a start

 

regards

paul

[Gingerbaby]

Hi There,

I have received numerous threats from AIC stating all kinds over the phone and was very distressed about this on the 12th November i sent a request for my CCA for an old BLS account the 12 days has now passed and i have not had anything else from them should i take further action !!!

 

I also had a similar problem with a company callefd the debt managers who have written to me to advise they are unable supply a copy of this and have referred the account back to the original creditor

 

Should i send further communication to AIC or wait for them top contact me again as to date i have received only 2 letters and no phone calls since

[ODC]

You do not need to respond. If AIC demand money off you without prviding the CCA then report them to TS for non compliance.. Its not your job to remind these so called professionals. They should know the law, if not there are plenty of people here who can advise them,

[Gingerbaby]

Thank you i am just worried as it has gone very quiet on me that is ll all they appear to come on strong and then fade away

 

Do you have any suggestions about the company that have referred back to TSB as they were nopt aqble to obtain a CCA as i am assuming they will just send it to some one else or with me been outside the 12 days do i continue with the 30 days rule that if TSB are not able to supply this information they then commit a criminal act ?? Or do i play this game with all DCA's now until it is produced !!!

[spamheed]

If one company is unable to provide a copy of the CCA, it is very unlikely that anyone else is.

 

The CCA request is still valid, they still have an obligation to supply it to you, no-one else should pursue the debt whilst the CCA is still outstanding.

 

As it stands you are still waiting and need do nothing until you receive further correspondence

[Gingerbaby]

Thanks for this

[Gingerbaby]

Just wanted to provide an update regards a problem with TSB they had sent an account on to the Debt Managers whom i issued a CCA request to and they were unable to supply this information and have refered back to TSB now who are of course threatening legal action !!!

 

I have now sent a further CCA request through to TSB but was wondering if anyone knew if this was the correct process to follow or had any other experiences !

 

Also in terms of some of my recent threads in relation to AIC we are now in day 10 of the 30days after failing to provide the CCA within the 12 days and to date no further letters or calls have been made so am not sure if they still have this account or whether they are just unable to comply with my requested awaiting day 30 when they actually commit a criminal offence although i feel it will probably pass on to some one else before then does anyone have any advice ????

[DBY]

Just wanted to provide an update regards a problem with TSB they had sent an account on to the Debt Managers whom i issued a CCA request to and they were unable to supply this information and have refered back to TSB now who are of course threatening legal action !!!

 

I have now sent a further CCA request through to TSB but was wondering if anyone knew if this was the correct process to follow or had any other experiences !

 

Also in terms of some of my recent threads in relation to AIC we are now in day 10 of the 30days after failing to provide the CCA within the 12 days and to date no further letters or calls have been made so am not sure if they still have this account or whether they are just unable to comply with my requested awaiting day 30 when they actually commit a criminal offence although i feel it will probably pass on to some one else before then does anyone have any advice ????

 

Wait, youve sent your request (recorded I hope) now dont do anything - then when they commit a CRIMINAL offence, complain to TA, OFT and the FOS. So far, Hamptons are pressing my for payment - I have not responded, i just keep their letters and forward them onto TA and complain of harrasment - they just keep digging themselves a bigger hole.

[poker_mad]

Today recieved confirmation that the case has been transfered to my local court.and also included is an Allocation Questionaire.

 

Still no reply from SC&M regarding the information I requested, just another nail in their coffin.

[pt2537]

cool, ok what AQ is it you have N149 or N150?

 

i can help you fill it in and i also have some directions to go with it

[Gingerbaby]

Have they stated there intention withing papers as whether it is a ccj Claim or stat demand

[poker_mad]

The AQ is N149. Any help will be greatfully recieved.

[Gingerbaby]

Found the following that may help

 

Attach the following letter to the AQ followed by the draft order. Then in the actual 'section G' box of the AQ, write this;

Please find the following attached to this allocation questionnaire:

 

1) Section G - other information

2) Draft order for directions

 

This allocation questionnaire and its attachments were sent to the defendant on **/**/**.

 

Your Name -v- Bank

Claim No: *******

N149/N150 Allocation Questionnaire

Section G/H - other information

The Claimant respectfully suggests that special directions may be made as per the attached draft order.

 

If ordered, the Claimant believes the proposed directions will further the Overriding Objectives in that they identify the most fundamental issues in dispute (as detailed below), and allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously.

 

- The crux upon which this claim rests is the actual loss suffered by the Defendant as a result of the contractual breach from which its charges arise. If the Defendant cannot substantiate the cost of each charge as proportionate to its loss incurred, it has charged contractual penalties contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and common law principles established since the early 1900's.

 

- In the event that the Defendant's charges were accepted as being a fee for a contractual service (which is refuted), examination of its true costs is required to determine whether the price is reasonable as required by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

The Claimant believes that if the Defendant has the serious intention of defending this claim at trial as is indicated by its defence, that it is incumbent upon it to disclose such information. Further, the proposed directions are already routinely ordered in claims of this nature in the Mercantile Court in London, as well as in small claims track cases in Leicester, Derby, Chesterfield, Northampton and Mansfield County Courts.

 

As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, the Claimant believes the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, the Claimant respectfully requests that this claim be allocated to the small claims track and estimates that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour.

In the XXXXXX County Court

Claim number XXXXXX

Between

XXXXXXXX - Claimant

and

XXXXX - Defendant

 

Draft Order for Directions

The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court:

a) A schedule setting out each charge repayment of which is sought, showing the date, amount, and reason given (if any) for that charge being made;

b) Copies of any statement or other document relied upon as showing that each and every charge has been made;

c) A statement of evidence of all matters relied upon as tending to show that the charges are irrecoverable as penalties or otherwise;

d) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

e) If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

2. The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve a response to the Claimant's schedule, stating in respect of each item claimed;

a) Pursuant to what contractual provision such charge was made, producing a copy of the contractual document relied upon;

b) Whether such charge is accepted to be a penalty, and if not why not;

c) If such charge is alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions (whether or not such action is treated as a breach of contract between the parties), all facts and matters intended to be relied upon as showing that such was a proper estimate of such loss, and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to what the true cost of dealing with the matter was;

d) If such charge is not alleged to be a pre-estimate of the Defendant's loss incurred by the Claimant's actions then facts and matters intended to be relied upon showing the basis upon which the charge was calculated and all evidence to be adduced at trial as to show that the charge was fair and reasonable.

e) Any witness statements.

f) Copies of decided cases and other legal materials to be relied upon.

g) If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order.

[pt2537]

In the ************* County Court

Claim number **********

 

 

 

 

Between

************* - Claimant

and

 

xxxxxxxxxx - Defendant

 

 

 

Draft Order for Directions

The Claimant shall within 14 days of service of this order send to the Defendant and to the Court:

• Copies of the Credit Agreement and any documents referred to within it which complies with the consumer Credit Act 1974 and all subsequent regulations
  
• Default Notice compliant with s87 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 andConsumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notices) Regulations 1983 (SI 1983/1561) as amended,
  
• Document, contract or deed of assignment
  
• Notice of assignment, with proof of service of the same compliant with s196 of the Law of Property Act 1925.
  
• Copies of any statement or other document relied upon

If the Claimant fails to comply with this order, the claim will be struck out without further order.

 

The Defendant shall within 14 days thereafter file and serve the following

• An amended defence sufficiently particularised in response to the documents supplied by the claimant

If the Defendant fails to comply with this order, the Defence will be struck out without further order.

 

 

 

 

this is the draft i wrote for another user recently

 

 

XXXXXXXXXX -v- XXXXXXX

Claim No: xxxxxxxxx

 

N149 Allocation Questionnaire

 

Section G - other information

If the court is in agreement, the defendant respectfully requests that special directions may be given as per the attached draft order.

 

The defendant proposes these directions in mind of the Overriding Objectives, and in particular the duty of the parties to help the court further them. The issues outlined below are the crux upon which this claim rests, and the proposed directions identify these issues and will allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously;

 

without production of the requested documents, I am at a disadvantage and am unable to serve a proper defence. Failure of the claimant to supply the requested documentation will make the case much harder for the court to deal with as without production of the requested documentation will inhibit the courts ability to deal with the case

The House of Lords in the case of Wilson v First County Trust Ltd - [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) made it clear in paragraph 29 of LORD NICHOLLS OF BIRKENHEAD judgment

29. The court's powers under section 127(1) are subject to significant qualification in two types of cases. The first type is where section 61(1)(a), regarding signing of agreements, is not complied with. In such cases the court 'shall not make' an enforcement order unless a document, whether or not in the prescribed form, containing all the prescribed terms, was signed by the debtor: section 127(3). Thus, signature of a document containing all the prescribed terms is an essential prerequisite to the court's power to make an enforcement order. The second type of case concerns failure to comply with the duty to supply a copy of an executed or unexecuted agreement pursuant to sections 62 and 63, or failure to comply with the duty to give

notice of cancellation rights in accordance with section 64(1). Here again, subject to one exception regarding sections 62 and63, section 127(4) precludes the court from making an enforcement order.

 

Its is respectfully requested this case be allocated to the small claims track, it is a straight forward case and is easily resolved on production of the required documentation by the claimant, should the claimant not have the documentation required to progress this case I suggest that there will be no case to answer

 

Therefore it stands to reason that this document must be disclosed before this case can progress any further

 

 

 

thats the Section G other info which i drew up for the same person.

 

they were in pretty much the same situ as yourself

 

incidently have you heard anything from the claimant with regards the defence?

[poker_mad]

Ive heard nothing from them apart from the letter saying they have asked the court to pass judgment.

 

In away the less time they spend on this case and the more they do not comply with any requests, the better for me.

[pt2537]

right then,

 

ok . with all due respects to Gingerbaby, the direction posted in post 94 are bank charges directions so theyre not likely to help this situation im afraidd

 

the ones ive posted above are more relevent to your situation

 

you need to get the AQ filed in plenty of time so are you ok with it,

 

 

the part which states

 

Please find the following attached to this allocation questionnaire:

 

1) Section G - other information

2) Draft order for directions

 

This allocation questionnaire and its attachments were sent to the defendant on **/**/**.

 

should be added to the AQ and the two parts i posted above should be printed out seperatley and attached to the AQ.

 

if youre un sure of anything shout

 

the orders i wrote ,if the judge agrees with them, should put them under pressure and if they fail to comply their claim could be thrown out of court so its worth putting them in

 

regards

paul

[poker_mad]

Thanks Paul, The AQ has to be returned to my local court by 30th December but I'll send it asap due to christmas.

 

I'm Ok with the AQ, it seems straight forward & thanks for the info.

[pt2537]

cool , no worries mate, as i said if you need anything else let me know

[poker_mad]

No new as of yet. No replies to any of my requests for info so it won't look very good for them if it does make it to court.