Advice needed please

[Rob S]

There doesn't seem to be any NHS policy with regards to midwives and district nurses doing their job. It is up to local management to try and reach an agrrement. My wife is a head of midwifery and her midwives were having problems with the parking attendants in the local borough. She wrote to the head of parking and an agreement was made to allow the midwives to park in certain circumstances. But up until this agreement was made the midwives were having to pay their own tickets.

[green_and_mean]

Dear Green and Mean.

Please read the posts. This poor woman was very ill and at that moment in time, giving me a permit was the last thing on her mind. I am sure when she has recovered and discharged from hospital, if I ask her she will give me one, but unfortunately that may be too late, and I will have incurrred a charge of £60 for trying to do my job to the best of my ability.

 

From your posts and comments, You appear to hold the general public with distain, appear to imply that they will stoop to any length to avoid paying a penality fine. I agree with the previous poster and fellow nhs worker that you obviously work in that domain. You have been brainwashed into believing that the general public are just out to park illegally and then to try to get out of it. I feel that this is sad

 

I previously mentioned that this is my thread, my questions and if you cannot give support or constructive advice, please refrain from doing so.

 

It appears that you have some axe to grind, therefore I would appreciate, if you have nothing better to do than taint us all with the same brush, do not post your unhelpful, slating remarks on this thread.

 

If you continue in your scathing remarks I will report you as I feel that your comments are most unhelpful and arguementative, when people are asking for advice, not a loophole to avoid payment of these fines.

 

Do not post on this thread again.

 

I did not say you needed to get the permit at the time did I? The council have asked for a permit my advice was to go to see the patient and ask for the permit to show the council. But since you don't want to listen to my advice go pay your PCN I'm not bothered if you don't want advice.

If you don't like my opinions don't read them but I have not been rude to you or anyone else on this thread? All I have stated is that in my opinion allowing Health staff to have a general exemption to restrictions is open to abuse and hard to enforce.

[green_and_mean]

Since there is no statutory exemption and there is unlikely to be an exemption in the TRO, what would be the point of such a letter. No Council is going to give up revenue as easily as that - until shamed into it perhaps by a Press campaign and it would have to be on a council by council basis.

 

Next where to to draw the line of what constitutes an emergency and why stop at health workers. Why not Transco responding to an emergency gas leak report; plumbers responding to a leak, etc.

 

Once you start giving somewhat nebulous exemptions, you open a whole can of worms until the whole parking enforcement becomes impossible.

 

 

Shock horror.....we agree for once!! :o lol

[postggj]

how do i start a subject new to site

[Michael Browne]

Go to the appropriate forum, assuming it's Parking forum go here:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/parking-traffic-wardens/

 

and click on New Thread top left

[hellhasnofury]

how do i start a subject new to site

 

Hello Postggi,

 

If you look at the top of the relevant thread, on the left hand top corner, above the sticky's, you will see the tab NEW THREAD, click on that and you are away

[Robertxc]

Once again, everyone please take a deep breath and unclench... I don't think anyone's trying to insult anyone else, so let's all remember to keep it nice and friendly. Ok?

I did not say you needed to get the permit at the time did I? The council have asked for a permit my advice was to go to see the patient and ask for the permit to show the council. But since you don't want to listen to my advice go pay your PCN I'm not bothered if you don't want advice.

If you don't like my opinions don't read them but I have not been rude to you or anyone else on this thread? All I have stated is that in my opinion allowing Health staff to have a general exemption to restrictions is open to abuse and hard to enforce.

[green_and_mean]

 

It appears that you have some axe to grind, therefore I would appreciate, if you have nothing better to do than taint us all with the same brush, do not post your unhelpful, slating remarks on this thread.

 

If you continue in your scathing remarks I will report you as I feel that your comments are most unhelpful and arguementative, when people are asking for advice, not a loophole to avoid payment of these fines.

 

Do not post on this thread again.

 

 

Tis not me being nasty? I cannot see the point of asking for advice and then throwing ones toys out of the pram because someone does not agree with you? Not every PCN is invalid or wrongly issued though sadly some are so don't get upset if not everyone thinks you should get let off.

The Council have agreed to cancel the PCN on production of a valid permit to cover the day in question but the poster is so blinkered they cannot even see the help being offered both on here and by the Council.

[hellhasnofury]

More parking tickets afoot.

 

Did eventually manage to get a parking permit from the poor lady when she returned from hospital.

 

I actually managed to acquire two parking tickets in a residential area last week. First on saturday morning at 8.05am whilst attending a home birth. The baby was born at 08.20 so a bit busy at that time.

 

I went out to the car at 09.30am to get some equipment and saw it, removed it. The other midwife got one as well. Returned to the house to get a permit and when I returned . There was another one on the windscreen. timed 09.36. The traffic warden was actually at the car,at the time. I did inform him that I had actually already just had one, and he told me off stating that I should not have removed the first.

 

So here we go again.

[green_and_mean]

If you remove the PCN you will get another one since the next PA will observe the same situation as the first a car parked without a permit with no PCN. This situation will continue to keep happening unless you get a permit to park from the Council for medical staff.

[hellhasnofury]

If you remove the PCN you will get another one since the next PA will observe the same situation as the first a car parked without a permit with no PCN. This situation will continue to keep happening unless you get a permit to park from the Council for medical staff.

 

Hello G&M,

 

Now are you going to be nice:p

The attitude of our Management, is that they will write a letter regarding the parking fines, but can't promise anything. So I think I will now challenge the Trust regarding this issue. When I get a emergency call, getting a permit is unfortunately my last though. I have to prioritise. I can't be leaving women in the throws of labour, to put a permit on my car. If she delivered whilst I was out at the car, I would be disciplined for failure in my duty of care and in serious trouble with my governing body, also my experience of how these things can go would not let me.

 

A friend of mine, her husband is a landscape gardener of the borough and he has one:o

[patdavies]

Hello G&M,

 

Now are you going to be nice:p

The attitude of our Management, is that they will write a letter regarding the parking fines, but can't promise anything. So I think I will now challenge the Trust regarding this issue. When I get a emergency call, getting a permit is unfortunately my last though. I have to prioritise. I can't be leaving women in the throws of labour, to put a permit on my car. If she delivered whilst I was out at the car, I would be disciplined for failure in my duty of care and in serious trouble with my governing body, also my experience of how these things can go would not let me.

 

A friend of mine, her husband is a landscape gardener of the borough and he has one:o

 

Whilst fully understanding the thrust of your post, you cannot be disciplined because you have failed to work outside the law.

[green_and_mean]

I was not being nasty or nice just stating the facts, unless you have a permit or a waiver the PAs will treat your car as any other would be. If they ignored your car they could possibly be disciplined themselves. The decriminalised parking legislation was laid out to take any reasoning from the on street staff and put it in the hands of the process dept the reasoning being to avoid corruption and prevent PAs being threatened in order to change their mind about issuing. Having said that on the odd occasion a reasonable PA could turn a blind eye to your car if the reason you parked was apparent but this is obviously not a suitable long term solution as it puts both of you in an awkward position. As I mention befor in London we have a green badge scheme for NHS visitors and my council issues Dr/NHS permits this is obviously a better solution than you or your employer keep having to appeal.

[B.A.Ts]

Have read this thread with interest. You have a valid cause to appeal these PCN's. I know that this may be a little late perhaps but please appeal these if you still can. When you get a notice to owner sent through you should have the option to appeal this with NPAS (National Parking Adjudication Service) They are independent people who look at these appeals and dont look kindly on the councils when they are in the wrong either. I am almost certain they will uphold your appeal. You had a valid reason to be there WITHOUT the need of a visitors permit.

[green_and_mean]

Have read this thread with interest. You have a valid cause to appeal these PCN's. I know that this may be a little late perhaps but please appeal these if you still can. When you get a notice to owner sent through you should have the option to appeal this with NPAS (National Parking Adjudication Service) They are independent people who look at these appeals and dont look kindly on the councils when they are in the wrong either. I am almost certain they will uphold your appeal. You had a valid reason to be there WITHOUT the need of a visitors permit.

 

 

Complete and utter rubbish I'm afraid! Adudicators cannot rule on mitigation only on the grounds for appeal being valid. In this case the grounds would be 'the contravention did not take place' unless there was a clear exemption for the driver to park without a permit the appeal would be rejected. The only exemption that could possibly apply would be that the midwifes car was an emergency vehicle which I very much doubt the appeals service would uphold as exemptions usually state 'a police ,fire or ambulance vehicle' to remove any confusion.

[B.A.Ts]

Complete and utter rubbish I'm afraid! Adudicators cannot rule on mitigation only on the grounds for appeal being valid. In this case the grounds would be 'the contravention did not take place' unless there was a clear exemption for the driver to park without a permit the appeal would be rejected. The only exemption that could possibly apply would be that the midwifes car was an emergency vehicle which I very much doubt the appeals service would uphold as exemptions usually state 'a police ,fire or ambulance vehicle' to remove any confusion.

Have you ever been to an NPAS appeal ? they take ALL aspects into consideration.

[green_and_mean]

Have you ever been to an NPAS appeal ? they take ALL aspects into consideration.

 

From PATAS website who are governed by same statutary powers as NPAS....

 

The Adjudicator can only allow an appeal if one of the grounds is made out.

The Adjudicator is not able to allow an appeal or reduce the penalty because you feel that the circumstances were an excuse for the contravention.

Most regulations contain specific exemptions. If you think your case might fall into one of the exempted categories, you should appeal; the Adjudicator will explain if it cannot be allowed

[B.A.Ts]

we will have to agree to disagree here on this one

 

Adjudicators decision on one of my appeals, might be worth reading, not that I am trying to prove a point here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs/94493-bailiff-assaulted-me-9.html

 

pages half way done

[green_and_mean]

we will have to agree to disagree here on this one

 

Adjudicators decision on one of my appeals, might be worth reading, not that I am trying to prove a point here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs/94493-bailiff-assaulted-me-9.html

 

pages half way done

 

 

If you are refering to the Tendring Council one it was allowed due to the Council not following the correct process it had nothing to do with mitigation or your right to park there.

[green_and_mean]

ooops

[B.A.Ts]

If you are refering to the Tendring Council one it was allowed due to the Council not following the correct process it had nothing to do with mitigation or your right to park there.

The point im trying to make here is that NPAS do look at all aspects of an appeal not whether the person has a right or no right to park there. I have personally known a few cases where a PCN was issued where a permit was not present and because of circumstances the appeal was upheld not because the PCN was issued incorrectly or the council had gone about things the wrong way. these people were not residence either.

 

It wasnt just the council either who were in the wrong.. the traffic warden was in the wrong also.

[patdavies]

It wasnt just the council either who were in the wrong.. the traffic warden was in the wrong also.

 

Councils and Traffic Wardens don't mix.

 

If it was a council (DPE) ticket, then it was issued by a Parking Attendant.

 

If it was an Traffic Warden, the ticket was not a PCN and can only be appealed via Court, not NPAS/PATAS

[green_and_mean]

The point im trying to make here is that NPAS do look at all aspects of an appeal not whether the person has a right or no right to park there. I have personally known a few cases where a PCN was issued where a permit was not present and because of circumstances the appeal was upheld not because the PCN was issued incorrectly or the council had gone about things the wrong way. these people were not residence either.

 

It wasnt just the council either who were in the wrong.. the traffic warden was in the wrong also.

 

 

Can you show a case reference as I would be interested to see the adjudicators ruling as if there where none of the legal grounds for upholding the appeal they are acting unlawfully.

[B.A.Ts]

Councils and Traffic Wardens don't mix.

 

If it was a council (DPE) ticket, then it was issued by a Parking Attendant.

 

If it was an Traffic Warden, the ticket was not a PCN and can only be appealed via Court, not NPAS/PATAS

 

my bad it was a parking attendant, they are all the same in my opinion.

 

By the way what IS the difference.

[battyboomboom]

The councils must use discretion when issuing tickets...

 

However you're assertion that adjudicators are acting unlawfully is true in ALL cases as they blatantly breach your right to a fair trial under the Human Rights Act.