TezViper v Rossendales Re: Council Tax

[tezviper]

Hi all, Had a lovely visit from a Baliif this morning which resulted in an arguement on my front Doorstep ( with a guy much bigger than me ) about this council tax debt.

Heres my story; Fell behind on coucil tax last year and at 1 point owed about £600 set up a payment plan with Rossendales when they came to visit although at the time i noticed they got me to sign a sheet that listed some of my possesions and also basically stated they could enter my house at any time, and got the debt down to £250 then the new Council Tax year started and I missed first payment of that. Anyway got a letter from council so phoned them and asked to incorporate last years £250 into this years. Woman on phone seemed to think this was fine and we set up a DD which has been maintained so far. They sent me a bill which had the Full amount owed on it and I assumed everything was peachy until this mornings little visit.

 

Since then have been on the phone to councl who are saying that although the total amount on the bill added up to last years arrears and this years bill the amount they were going to charge me was only for this year and I should still have paid Rossendales what i owed them. I am waiting for the dept manager to return from holiday so I can complain to someone properly because if this is the case then their bills are not clear enough and in my case has caused me a great deal of distress as well the £250 debt with rossendales now up to £430 ( £170 charge for turning up at my house WILL BE CHALLENGING THAT IF IT COMES DOWN TO IT )

 

Have also been on phone to National Debtline and surfing the web for information and have also discovered that as the last payment was made to Rossendales on 30th April and I have heard nothing from them since then until they showed up at my door then they have failed to maintain the possesion and therefore cannot enforce it! As they should be in regular contact, so if a month goes by then apparently you have a strong case and its been 3 1/2 months since they contacted me. I believe this is known as Abandonment.

 

Any Views on this case much appreciated as this has done my nut in today although the research I have done makes me feel a little better. I just need opinions from you guys to make me feel much better.

 

TezViper

[tomtubby]

You could well argue the point about abandonment but essentially, whether goods have been abandoned depends on the individual facts of the case.

 

For instance, when you signed the Walking Possession, the bailiff may have stipulated a certain date by which the debt must be paid.

 

If the agreed date is allowed to pass without either the arrears being paid, or the goods being removed – then it may be argued that the bailiff has by his conduct abandoned the distraint.

 

It is impossible to state how many days need to elapse before the bailiff is ruled to have abandoned the distraint. The court’s decision will ultimately be decided depending upon the facts of each case.

 

To avoid the risk of abandonment being raised, it is therefore imperative that bailiffs request that debtors sign a new Walking Possession Agreement before expiry of the previous agreement.

 

You should be advised to send a Subject Access Request to the bailiff company to request a full and detailed breakdown of the fees and argure the point about adandonment.

 

You should most certainly check whether the bailiff was certificated. Nearly half of all bailiff are not !!!

[tezviper]

Thanks for that reply, much appreciated. have been continuing my research and so far have found a report stating that the levy should be valid for a maximum of 6 months so am just trying to find out when the walking possesion order was done. Basically all I am really after here is for the debt to be passed back to my local council because I am now going to refuse to pay any fees as i consider the order to be abandoned. If thats the case then whats the next step for rossendales? so they need to go to court???

If they turn up at my house can they break in??

 

TezViper

[tomtubby]

If the Walking Possession IS VALID, then this gives the bailiff the right to break into your home if you are in arrears.

 

You must ensure though that the acount is taken back by the local authority otherwise the bailiffs are still entitled to enforce the debt .....and their fees also.

[tezviper]

I have spoken to council just now and on friday they will take payment of what I owe them. Where does this leave Rossendales and their fees? I have also written a long email to my local MP about this.

 

TezViper

[tezviper]

Also, just in case I need to rely upon it, how do i go about proving that the walking possession order is no longer valid? Who do i speak to about this?

 

TezViper

[pfens]

when did you sign the possession order, because you should have been given a copy of it at the time.

[tezviper]

I signed it on January the 15th but cant find my copy of it unfortunately.

 

TezViper

[tezviper]

Any views on this guys?

 

TezViper

[B.A.Ts]

Any views on this guys?

 

TezViper

As long as you have cleared your debt with the council, the bailiff cannot take his fees under the court order that was set out for this debt, their charges will have become a civil matter between your self and them and cannot enter your home ie force their way in to collect on their charges. Ask them for a break down on the charges that they have set out dont refuse to pay at this stage until you have seen the break down of the charges.

[tezviper]

Hi mate, the baliif just phones to say that the council tax is no longer an issue and now he just wants the fees. I explained the situation and where I think i stand and he threatened to come round right now and remove goods.

i said that he cant do that and he said that he can.

I bought some time from him but I need to know what to do, is there a governing body i can call?

 

TezViper

[B.A.Ts]

Hi mate, the baliif just phones to say that the council tax is no longer an issue and now he just wants the fees. I explained the situation and where I think i stand and he threatened to come round right now and remove goods.

i said that he cant do that and he said that he can.

I bought some time from him but I need to know what to do, is there a governing body i can call?

 

TezViper

If he comes round to your home then call the police. for him to start taking goods he needs to go through the proper channels ie small claims court. The debt has now been paid and he cannot pursue you for the charges under the court order set out from the courts. He is well aware of this. Tell him if he attempts to force his way into your property then the police will be called and you will press charges for harassment, ask him for a break down of his fees and if they are legal then you will pay them, if you feel that the charges are not legal then tell him to claim for them via a small claims court.

[tezviper]

basically i dont want to pay these fees £110 van fee and £60 for the visit.

My arguement with him though I am still awaiting confirmation of this is that he could no longer enforce the walking possession order for 2 reasons.

1. The WPO was signed in January and info I have found states that the levy is only valid for a max of 6 months,,,,

2. The last time I heard from them was in april, 3 and half months ago and info I have been given is that they have technically abandoned the possessions and can no longer enforce the order and would need to obtain a new one.

 

I am no expert and am just going on various pieces of info and advice on these matters.

 

Any input appreciated.

 

TezViper

[B.A.Ts]

basically i dont want to pay these fees £110 van fee and £60 for the visit.

My arguement with him though I am still awaiting confirmation of this is that he could no longer enforce the walking possession order for 2 reasons.

1. The WPO was signed in January and info I have found states that the levy is only valid for a max of 6 months,,,,

2. The last time I heard from them was in april, 3 and half months ago and info I have been given is that they have technically abandoned the possessions and can no longer enforce the order and would need to obtain a new one.

 

I am no expert and am just going on various pieces of info and advice on these matters.

 

Any input appreciated.

 

TezViper

Did he turn up with the van to take goods, if not then he cannot charge for the van fee. Was there a date on the WPO?.

[tezviper]

He turned up to take goods although my argument is that as he couldnt enforce the WPO then as far as I am concerned he was just out far a drive.

The date on the WPO was Jan 15th 2007

 

TezViper

[tezviper]

Just got off the phone to the council and they quoted some legislation too me that suggests that I have to pay the baliifs or they can remove goods from my house to cover the baliff fees.

How can this be right. It is really starting to **** me off now.

 

TezViper

[B.A.Ts]

most councils dont know what the regs are where bailiffs are concerned and often get it wrong as with the police.

Department for Constitutional Affairs Website

this link may help you

[zigster]

Also worth checking if the bailiff is certificated. There is a number on one of the bailiff threads so if you have his name you can check. I shall try and find it now for you.

[zigster]

Can't find the number - BATS - do you know?

[alexteh]

Try this link zigster:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bailiffs/98313-anyone-can-check-bailiffs.html

[zigster]

Thanks Alexteh.

 

Ok so the number to call is this -

Her Majesty's Court Services Headquarters on 0207 210 0516.

 

If you check out the link from Alexteh there is some useful info.

[tezviper]

Thanks for all that. I will let you know of any developments.

 

TezViper

[alexteh]

Good luck!

[tezviper]

Ok have just been finding out if the Bailiff is certificated and apparently he is but is registered with Drakes as opposed to Rossendales! Anyone know if that is allowed!

Am guessing I may need to ring the court where the certificate was issued for that info.

I am still thinking of pursuing the whole abandonement issue but am unsure of where to start with this!

 

TezViper

[alexteh]

It may possibly be that they have out of date information so it may possibly be worth calling the actual court rather than the central number. Beyond that, you probably need advice from someone more knowledgeable than me on this one now...