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Welcome Finance - This company needs to be banned.


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Hi

 

I have done a bit of reading and now know exactlhy what you mean, fascinating subject i shall read more.

 

Peter

if its reading your doing, then Bowstead and Reynolds on agency and Chitty on contract is helpful.

 

Halsburys Agency is also helpful, but the best case i know of for explaining the legal position is Imageview and Jack

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Hi PT,

 

I received this letter from Blemain Finance Ltd when I requested information if they paid my broker Ocean Finance Ltd a commission.

 

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq223/sophiak_bucket/barristers%20advice/downloads/blemainresponsetosolicitor.jpg

 

Blemain have said that I have to prove I was owed a fiduciary duty and prove if it was breached. I contacted Ocean Finance Ltd to arrange a loan and they found Blemain Finance Ltd. I knew that I had to pay OF a fee [broker fee] but was not informed at point of sale by BF or OF that OF were to receive a commission on top of this fee.

 

BF have partially disclosed this info in their terms and conditions that the lender will usually pay the broker a commission for introducing the borrower to the lender.

 

I do not know for certain where that leaves me. Am I entitled to have this fee refunded. Since all this I now have it in writing from OF and BF that a commission was paid by BF to OF.......and OF have confirmed that they did received a commission.

 

Would this be partial disclosure and if so where does that leave me and what if any are my options?

 

I look forward to your reply. Thank you.

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the two points i would put forward is

 

1) if there is an "agent" are you paying them for acting as such? so are you giving them say £200 to go find you the best deal or

 

2) are you simply asking a lender to provide you a service? where you pay t hem nothing but simply borrow funds to finance the transaction?

 

I would also suggest establishing a fiduciary due is owe, or the duty of utmost good faith, before you go hell bent on finding a secret commission

 

oh and while im thinking about it, the Agent in credit sales transactions , such as a car dealer supplying credit, is under normal circumstances the Agent of the lender NOT the agent of the borrower, therefore owes no fiduciary duty to hte borrower

 

id be happy for someone to prove me wrong, but Bowstead and chitty seem to agree with me

 

 

I think that my case would fall under the Hurstanger case and that I would be only entitled to receive the commission plus interest back?

 

Would you agree PT?

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  • 3 weeks later...

I don't think anyone will see their loans vapourise - cattles will sell them to get some bail-out money, I'm afraid

Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

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NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007

Brighthouse Won unconditionally August 2007

Goldfish Won unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra)

Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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Cattles, the embattled plc whose brands include Welcome Car Finance, has had a knock back on negotiations for its survival.

The sub-prime lender, who closed Welcome Car Finance to new business after a £850m hole was discovered in the group's accounts, has failed to secure a survival deal with creditors.

A key group of bond-holders has pulled out of the negotiations, which were focused on who should get first claim on any funds if the group gets wound up in an orderly restructure.

Cattles said it will continue talks with other lenders.

 

 

 

 

BRING IT ON:lol::lol:

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not always, in the same way, do you tell everyone what you get paid?

 

sales men work on commission basis.

 

In respect of the credit, charge etc, thats all well and good, but, heres a spanner in the works, cos i had a claim where the lender said that "they" funded the commissions and therefore while they showed on the underwriting sheet, they were not paid by the client at all.

 

We could not prove to the contrary.

 

If the company was "funding the commissions" and not the customer they should be able to show this in their accounting and audit procedures.

 

It is not something they could just list under sundries. If they are "funding" then it would be a cost to their business. In the same way as they would electric, stationary, rent etc.

 

However, if they are shown on an underwriting sheet they are for that single transaction.

 

Example

 

Income

Customer charged £100

 

Costs

Insurance product £50

Commission payments £10

 

Profit £40

 

This commission is obviously paid for by the customer as it is a cost of the product sold - Why else would it be on the underwriting sheet? The salesmans wages are not in there are they?

 

This is not "self financed" out of profits - it is financed by an additional charge for the product. (Again i believe - or it would not need to be on there)

 

If you go to Tesco and pay £1 for tin of beans that cost them 50p - they make 50p profit from the sale of those goods.

 

Other costs like staff wages, bonuses, rent, fuel, stationary etc - are paid for out of the profits from the sale of the products. That is self financed.

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My point exactly

Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

 GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007

NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007

Brighthouse Won unconditionally August 2007

Goldfish Won unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra)

Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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I find all this very disturbing and I really hope no one is lulled into a false sense of security. Its unlikely the slate will be wiped clean & we will be able to disappear into the sunset. If anyone has done a deal and either wiped their loan or had the full & final settlement reduced to peanuts please show your selves please to give all of us hope.

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I think BGG is right. Welcome loans are Cattles assets and I think their only hope is to sell them for cash to get them out of the hole they are in. That means some other sharks will be chasing you for them.

Steven

 

Using CAG Toolbar will generate much needed income - Download Here

 

Confused by Simple Interest? Confounded by Compound Interest? Read my Interest Tutorial

My Wins

 GE Money Won unconditionally May 2007

NatWest Won unconditionally August 2007

Brighthouse Won unconditionally August 2007

Goldfish Won unconditionally April 2008 (including CI on the basis of Sempra)

Clydesdale Financial Services (now BPF) Won unconditionally February 2008

 

Any opinions are without prejudice & without liability. Do not take any legal action on my advice alone. Almost everything I know concerning the law I learned from this site.

 

Please note, I will not give advice by PM. Please send a link to your thread and I will do my best to answer there.

 

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I took Welcome on for a client, had the Charge removed, debt written off and funds repaid to the client on the basis that it was secured.

 

If they do go under, then it would be interesting to see who they sell their loan book to, as there are a number of flaws in the agreements i have seen, NOW THEN, i am not saying all welcome loans are unenforceable, lets be clear, but they do make errors.

 

 

Also id check the status of their CCA licence if they do go liquidation route, as if their licence is surrendered it becomes a criminal offence to sell it on without a licence.There was a case where someone went to prison, for unlicenced activity, i believe it was Hicks v Walker and Frank Reynolds Ltd -[1999] GCCR 721

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As to having a charge removed..... I have an agreement with Welcome which does not have a true copy of the agreement, the only charge is under a previous agreement (which is satisfied through the consolidated loan of which no true copy can be found), can I have this charge removed ?? How??

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  • 2 weeks later...

i am being harrassed by welcome finance since losing my job 6 months ago i have been paying them 30pound amonth since then which they are not happy with i dont know what to do as my husband is paying this money and money is really tight with him only working he says if the letters continue he will stop paying it i dont know what to do any help please

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  • 2 weeks later...

RNS Number : 8251U

Cattles PLC

22 October 2010

 



22 October 2010

CATTLES plc

 

INTERIM MANAGEMENT STATEMENT

 

 

INTRODUCTION

 

Cattles plc ("Cattles") today provides its Interim Management Statement covering the period since 30 June 2010.

 

Cattles announced its audited results for 2008 on 12 May 2010 and intends to announce its audited results for 2009 in the near future. The finalisation of the 2009 Annual Report and Financial Statements is closely linked to the progress made on the restructuring of the Group, which is set out below.

 

As referred to in the previous Interim Management Statement on 19 May 2010, shareholders should be aware that Cattles will be reporting a significant loss for the year ended 31 December 2009 and a negative value for shareholders' funds. Cattles continues to believe that its financial creditors are likely to suffer an aggregate loss of around £1 billion. Consequently, as previously stated on a number of occasions, Cattles continues to believe that the shares have little or no value.

 

The cash collection performance of the Welcome Finance ("Welcome") loan book has met forecast for the first nine months of 2010. Shopacheck and The Lewis Group have continued to make satisfactory progress during 2010.

 

CURRENT TRADING

 

A summary of the performance in 2010 for each of the Group's three businesses is set out below. All financial information for the nine months ended 30 September 2010 and as at 30 September 2010 and 31 December 2009 is unaudited.

 

Welcome

 

Welcome has historically provided direct repayment loans to more than half a million customers from a nationwide branch network. On 16 December 2009, the Cattles Board announced to shareholders that there would be no further lending in Welcome and that instead, the business would focus on a plan of collecting out Welcome's customer loans.

 

Welcome has been successful in implementing this cash collections strategy during 2010 and cash collected from customers in the first nine months of 2010 at £396.6 million met management's expectations.

 

Welcome has also taken steps to reduce its cost base:

 

· On 5 February 2010, the closure of 65 Local Management Branches and Local Collections Units was announced with a reduction in staff of 382

· On 7 May 2010, the closure of 18 branches was announced with a contraction in the current operations management and their support staff in line with the smaller number of branches. As a result, 139 employees left the business

· On 2 September 2010, a further 15 branches were closed and changes made to the administration of customer service. As a result, 64 employees have left the business, with a further 76 still at risk of redundancy

 

Welcome now operates from 102 branches and had a total workforce of 1,331 at 30 September 2010 (31 December 2009: 2,284).

 

Welcome's net book value of loans and receivables at 30 September 2010 amounted to £0.8 billion (31 December 2009: £1.1 billion).

 

Shopacheck

 

Shopacheck provides short-term home collected loans through a nationwide branch network and at 30 September 2010 had 223,000 customers (31 December 2009: 227,000 customers).

 

Shopacheck continues to lend to both new and existing customers, but in late 2009 it tightened its credit issuance criteria to improve credit quality in anticipation of the deteriorating economic environment. Despite lower volumes as a result of this decision, Shopacheck has made good progress during 2010 concentrating on growing its agency base and opening a number of new branches to be able to better serve its customers. Key performance indicators, which are in line with management's expectations, are as follows:

 

· 53,000 new customers during the first nine months of 2010

· New loans for the nine months ended 30 September 2010 were £67.3 million

· Collections for the nine months ended 30 September 2010 were £114.5 million

· Net book value of loans and receivables at 30 September 2010 was £54.0 million (31 December 2009: £64.3 million)

 

The business is now well placed to serve its customers and meet demand during the seasonal peak period.

 

The Lewis Group

 

The Lewis Group provides debt recovery and investigation services to external clients and both Welcome and Shopacheck.

 

In 2010, The Lewis Group has refocused its strategy on contingent debt collection. During 2009, The Lewis Group ceased acquiring debt portfolios, other than on forward flow contractual arrangements. Its commitment to acquire further debt was completed in August 2010. Key performance indicators are as follows:

 

· Cash collections in the nine months to 30 September 2010 were ahead of management's expectations at £76.3 million (2009: £70.9 million)

· Debt purchases in the nine months ended 30 September 2010 were £13.6 million (2009: £41.6 million)

· Purchased debt balances at 30 September 2010 were £130.8 million (31 December 2009: £145.2 million)

 

The Lewis Group has made progress in developing its contingent debt collection business during 2010 although this market remains highly competitive.

 

RESTRUCTURING

 

As previously announced, the Courts have finally determined that Cattles' claim against Welcome for its inter company debt ranks behind the claims of certain bank creditors. Clarification of this very important issue allowed all parties to accelerate their discussions about the restructuring of the Group's balance sheets.

Cattles, Welcome Financial Services Limited and other members of the Group continue to engage in discussions with representatives of certain of their key financial creditors and other stakeholders in order to progress proposals for a consensual restructuring.

 

Discussions presently envisage that, as part of a restructuring, Cattles would compromise its subordinated inter company claims against Welcome Financial Services Limited and other subsidiaries in the Group for not less than £39 million. Such compromise would occur in the event of a sale to a newly incorporated company of either: (i) the entire issued share capital of Cattles (at a price of up to 1p per share); or (ii) certain of its subsidiaries (including Welcome Financial Services Limited) for a nominal payment to Cattles (with no offer to Cattles' shareholders), in either case, together with a creditor scheme of arrangement of Welcome Financial Services Limited. Cattles would use the payment of not less than £39 million to meet its own costs and to compromise amounts it owes to its creditors (which at the last audited balance sheet date of 31 December 2008 totalled £2.8bn).

 

Those discussions remain constructive and demonstrate continuing progress towards a consensual restructuring of the Group although there remain a number of commercial, legal and regulatory issues to be resolved before any such restructuring can be finalised.

 

 

 

ENQUIRIES

 

Margaret Young, Executive Chairman, Cattles plc Tel: 020 7269 7252

Paul Felton-Smith, Finance Director, Cattles plc

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi All

 

Not sure how much this thread is looked at any more - I am a bit behind the times on WF.

 

However I just needed to share something with you that I received this week...

 

Well it's always interesting when I get a letter with WF's return address on it especially as I am Welcome free now.

 

The letter reads....

 

Some time ago you made a complaint about you payment protection insurance (PPI) policy. We upheld that complaint because we could not be satisfied that the PPI policy was suitable for you (actually I took you to court and you were ordered to repay but lets not split hairs! :whoo:)

As part of our normal quality (quality?? HA HA don't make me laugh) control process I have reviewed the outcome of your complaint. I see you had PPI policies attached to one or more other loans taken out with us, about which you did not complain.

 

If you would like me to re-consider your complaint, taking into account the other policies please complete the enclosed form and return this to me. This will enable me to investigate your complaint thoroughly and write to you with my findings

 

Yadda yadda yadda

 

Signed WF

 

Now I do not hold my breath but have returned my form... amusingly though I notice the first line of the return address to be THE PROJECT - indeed I can only assume that A PROJECT is as a result of interference or recommendations from an outside body - probably responding to the publication of them being in the top 5 for complaints about this kind of thing.

 

Has anyone else had a letter recently??

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