Welcome Finance - This company needs to be banned.

[ozzywizard]

I totally agree with you Sarah and welcome to the forum. With an entrance like that you will make friends soon here lol. .

 

Please feel free to create your own threa and share your experiences with welcome with us and if we can help in any way we will . .

[pwg6565]

Debt case guidance issued by Office of Fair Trading

 

 

The OFT guidance warns both lenders and borrowers

 

Lenders and borrowers have been issued with draft guidance about when their loans may, or may not, be enforced. The Office of Fair Trading (OFT) said it was worried that some debtors were being misled about their ability to get their debts written off.

Thousands of claims have been launched in the past couple of years, against lenders, by borrowers trying to avoid repaying their debts.

The draft guidance focuses on the rules laid down by the Consumer Credit Act.

The OFT's guidance draws on recent rulings by Judge Waksman at the High Court in Manchester.

He confirmed that it was acceptable for lenders to produce reconstituted copies of original loan agreements, for the purposes of providing the borrower with information about their loan.

The OFT said: "Some debtors are being misled into thinking that these sections [of the Consumer Credit Act] can be used to get their debts written off and that some creditors are not following legal obligations to provide information to customers.

"The lender is allowed to provide a reconstituted agreement, as long as that version is accurate and contains all the original information apart from the few exceptions that the law allows (which include the signature, signature box and date of signature)."

Unenforceable?

The authorities have been worried that some claims management companies have been drumming up business by exaggerating the chance of clients getting their debts cancelled.

 

The OFT considers it would be wrong to threaten court action if the lender knows that it is not possible

 

 

Office of Fair Trading

 

Claimants have typically sought to achieve this by challenging their lenders to meet the strict requirements of the Consumer Credit Act.

One of these is that lenders have to produce a "true copy" of the loan agreement within 12 days of being asked.

If a legible true copy cannot be produced then the loan is temporarily unenforceable, by way of a county court judgement, until such time as a copy can be found.

Some claims management companies have argued that the debts are permanently unenforceable in these circumstances.

Copies necessary

Not all the Manchester rulings went the way of the lenders.

Judge Waksman said that copies of loan agreements, when requested, had to contain the borrower's name and address at the time it was signed.

And he ruled that if an agreement had been subsequently varied by the lender, then the lender was obliged to supply a copy of both the original agreement as well as the current one.

Some lenders have found it very difficult to produce even reconstituted copies of their original agreements in line with these obligations.

Warning to lenders

Another recent leading High Court case established that even if a debt was temporarily unenforceable, it was still legal for lenders to take other steps in the meantime to get their money back.

The judge, in the case of the Royal Bank of Scotland and a customer called Philip McGuffick, said the lender could still mark a customer's record at a credit reference agency as being in default, because the debt itself had not been extinguished.

They could also demand repayment of the loan, issue a default notice, threaten legal action, and even starting legal proceedings.

All of these fell short of the legal definition of enforcement, he said.

However in its draft guidance the OFT warned lenders not to go too far by exaggerating the strength of their legal position.

"The guidance also makes it clear that if a lender cannot comply with the sections - making an agreement unenforceable - then it is restricted in the debt collection activities it can undertake," the OFT said.

"Whilst lenders are able to request repayment and to record any arrears or default with a credit reference agency, the OFT considers it would be wrong to threaten court action if the lender knows that it is not possible," it warned.

[pcoventry]

Yup you sure do but when registered cookies are saved to your comp so it shows your name . I had a dude named nottingham reading my thread yestertday for like 3 hours dunno who that was.

 

It could have been a girl.. How you do know what name they use if they are not registered?

[ozzywizard]

To be politically correct yuppers it could of been a dude-ess . .

You cant tell a name if a guest only if registered

[Gram1]

Debt case guidance issued by Office of Fair Trading

 

 

The OFT guidance warns both lenders and borrowers

 

Lenders and borrowers have been issued with draft guidance about when their loans may, or may not, be enforced. The Office of Fair Trading (OFT) said it was worried that some debtors were being misled about their ability to get their debts written off.

Thousands of claims have been launched in the past couple of years, against lenders, by borrowers trying to avoid repaying their debts.

The draft guidance focuses on the rules laid down by the Consumer Credit Act.

The OFT's guidance draws on recent rulings by Judge Waksman at the High Court in Manchester.

He confirmed that it was acceptable for lenders to produce reconstituted copies of original loan agreements, for the purposes of providing the borrower with information about their loan.

The OFT said: "Some debtors are being misled into thinking that these sections [of the Consumer Credit Act] can be used to get their debts written off and that some creditors are not following legal obligations to provide information to customers.

"The lender is allowed to provide a reconstituted agreement, as long as that version is accurate and contains all the original information apart from the few exceptions that the law allows (which include the signature, signature box and date of signature)."

Unenforceable?

The authorities have been worried that some claims management companies have been drumming up business by exaggerating the chance of clients getting their debts cancelled.

 

The OFT considers it would be wrong to threaten court action if the lender knows that it is not possible

 

 

Office of Fair Trading

 

Claimants have typically sought to achieve this by challenging their lenders to meet the strict requirements of the Consumer Credit Act.

One of these is that lenders have to produce a "true copy" of the loan agreement within 12 days of being asked.

If a legible true copy cannot be produced then the loan is temporarily unenforceable, by way of a county court judgement, until such time as a copy can be found.

Some claims management companies have argued that the debts are permanently unenforceable in these circumstances.

Copies necessary

Not all the Manchester rulings went the way of the lenders.

Judge Waksman said that copies of loan agreements, when requested, had to contain the borrower's name and address at the time it was signed.

And he ruled that if an agreement had been subsequently varied by the lender, then the lender was obliged to supply a copy of both the original agreement as well as the current one.

Some lenders have found it very difficult to produce even reconstituted copies of their original agreements in line with these obligations.

Warning to lenders

Another recent leading High Court case established that even if a debt was temporarily unenforceable, it was still legal for lenders to take other steps in the meantime to get their money back.

The judge, in the case of the Royal Bank of Scotland and a customer called Philip McGuffick, said the lender could still mark a customer's record at a credit reference agency as being in default, because the debt itself had not been extinguished.

They could also demand repayment of the loan, issue a default notice, threaten legal action, and even starting legal proceedings.

All of these fell short of the legal definition of enforcement, he said.

However in its draft guidance the OFT warned lenders not to go too far by exaggerating the strength of their legal position.

"The guidance also makes it clear that if a lender cannot comply with the sections - making an agreement unenforceable - then it is restricted in the debt collection activities it can undertake," the OFT said.

"Whilst lenders are able to request repayment and to record any arrears or default with a credit reference agency, the OFT considers it would be wrong to threaten court action if the lender knows that it is not possible," it warned.

 

Noone else seems to have commented on this which i find surprising. Is it just me or is this not bad news?

[pears23]

still digesting it & not sure I fully understand!

[emandcole]

Anyone know if this ruling includes the right of the creditor to reconstruct the default notice for example, or a notice of assignment?

 

Or is it just the right to submit a reconstructed credit agreement?

[Dibbothe3rd]

"He confirmed that it was acceptable for lenders to produce reconstituted copies of original loan agreements, for the purposes of providing the borrower with information about their loan"

 

hmmm that to me means that lenders can only do a reconstituted version of the agreement for "information", not to prove a contract exists!!

[edwi69]

Hi

So Does This Mean That If They Cannot Locate Or Provide A True Copy Of Your Cca Bearing All Signatures This Is Unenforceable Untill Such Time Or If They Ever Provide One

Regards

[luluspice]

Can someone help with a template letter to write to Welcome re mis sold PPI making contract unenforceable? Ombudsman has been dealing with complaint since June 09, but will not advise on how to do this They are only interested in ppi. welcome keep sending me new contracts to sign for various amounts - as if I would sign them!!!! they said they would send refund - no amount specified if I signed new contract!!! What should I say in letter to claim entire agreement is unenforceable due to misselling?? thanks.

[edwi69]

Hi Luluspice

Im Sure Someone With The Knowledge Will Be Along Shortly To Help You Shortly

But Whatever You Do "do Not Sign Another Agreement With That ****"

Regards

[beyondhope]

"He confirmed that it was acceptable for lenders to produce reconstituted copies of original loan agreements, for the purposes of providing the borrower with information about their loan"

 

hmmm that to me means that lenders can only do a reconstituted version of the agreement for "information", not to prove a contract exists!!

 

 

that reads also to me that a reconstructed agreement shouldnt differ from the original

[welcome jobhunter]

most welcome employees don't see customer as people unless you are signing for a loan, they see them as money and bonus earners and this is the problem, welcome employees are desperate for there customer to pay and will do anything to make them pay, i dont agree with it and think it is disgusting behavior by these people.

 

Well said welcomestaff as i fellow colleagues i have witnessed the un ethical way some of our colleagues work to collect money..

I personally feel embarrassed working for welcome when i hear these posts

I would just like to re assure fellow posters that all welcome employees are not the **** of the earth and would sell our granny's for a bonus.

I for 1 have refused to take payment knowing the customer could not afford it

 

I have read all welcomestaff's posts and and confirm all is true, I would just like to give a little more information on short settlements.

 

Personal loans - 35% discount

Sec loans - 20%

HP - 10% Where vehicle is still in possession 50% if vehicle has been repossessed leaving a liability

At this moment in time I think WFS will accept any reasonable offer so it's a worth a shot if you have the funds.

 

Also policy on collection charges state if no contact is made no charge is applied so if you think charges have been applied when you haven't been spoken to either on phone or via home visit complain and get them refunded.

[pwg6565]

A lot of people including me who have re-written agreements were lied to and told we will re-write your agreement as you are a good customer, etc, etc, blah,blah !!!

Little did we know what we were signing..

[pwg6565]

French giant Vivendi misled its investors

 

 

Vivendi's Activision unit makes the Guitar Hero game

 

French media giant Vivendi will have to pay damages that could total millions of dollars after a US jury found that it misled investors. The jury agreed with a civil lawsuit brought by Vivendi investors that accused the company of exaggerating its financial health in 2001 and 2002.

However, former Vivendi bosses Jean-Marie Messier and Guillaume Hannezo were found not liable.

Vivendi said it would appeal against the verdict.

Share fall

The case centred on Vivendi's financial state between October 2000 and August 2002, during which time its shares lost about 90% of their value following a merger with French television group Canal+ and the acquisition of Universal Studios from Canadian company Seagram.

Mr Messier was chief executive at the time, while Mr Hannezo was chief financial officer. Both have subsequently left the company.

The jury in New York took three weeks to come to its decision, after a trial that started in October.

Vivendi's wide range of media businesses include computer games firm Activision, which makes the popular Guitar Hero series.

 

 

Watch out Cattles !!!! Sounds a familiar story !!!!

[brassed-off-2]

@ Welcome Job Hunter and welcome staff

 

Thanks for comming on this thread and sharing your knowledge.

 

What is the word on the Welcome corridors, in relation to the MIF and acceptance fees that have been unlawfully applied to secured loan agreements.

[ozzywizard]

Also policy on collection charges state if no contact is made no charge is applied so if you think charges have been applied when you haven't been spoken to either on phone or via home visit complain and get them refunded.

 

That is somthing I didnt know but either way I concider the charges to be unlawfull. I have never heard of a welcome employee refusing a payment out of morality. lol.

[Et Contra Pacem Regis]

Returning to the Carey v HSBC issues:

Emandcole: No, the judgment is only about section 77-79 requests.

BeyondHope: This was also dealt with in the judgment. The gist is that the reconstruction has to be materially the same. It need not be in the same form. It need not reproduce information which is not required (i.e. most of the application form). See, in particular, the judge's comment on application forms under the heading "Application of Issues 1 and 2 to the Cases"

 

Welcomestaff and Welcome Jobhunter, thanks for the info.

[kittiej]

My OH had a default letter and then a letter saying welcome had terminated his hp agreement. Since this letter the ppi has brought what would have been his account up to date.

 

Will they repo the car now do you think? He has now paid 18 months of what would have been a 4 year agreement. He phoned welcome the other day and the branch manager said they were about to repo the car but she's put it on hold for 2 weeks.

[ozzywizard]

Kitt, your probably best starting your own thread for this so you have a diary of advise and can follow. Have you paid over a third of your loan, based on what you posted you are kinda borderline on this.

 

Also did the termination notice have "without predjudice on it ? . .

Did the default notice have a numerical date or state "within 14 days.

 

If you start your own thread then if possible post them up for us.

[kittiej]

Yes it does say without prejudice on the top then it says we refer to the notice of default dated the 5th Jan.

 

OK will go and start a new thread, thank you.

[ozzywizard]

haha welcome are so predictable.

[sillygirl1]

DO NOT PHONE THEM, put everything in writing, they are so desparate to get money in they will say anything to keep their jobs, keep reading the other Welcome threads on this site and you will clearly see their tactics.

 

If anyone phones or turn up on the doorstep tell them to get lost. Don't enter into an argument with them and keep stating, "In writing only."

[lostinspace1000]

i had a welcome monkey at my door the other day but i never answered, to busy on the phone to the Zoo to inform them that their escaped monkey was at my door.

[nelson66]

Heres another trick, It has come to my attention that welcome have used my card details and withdrawn £70 to cover a shortfall in a previous pyt, this was not agreed and was done without my knowledge i would be grateful if anyone could tell me where i stand on this?