Welcome Finance - This company needs to be banned.

[Peterbard]

dipply

 

thats the first time ive seen this agreement

its crap, rubbish, welcome can go and whistle

 

there is no total ammount payable on the loan

 

thats a perscribed term that a court cant enforce

 

get peter to give it the once over but ime 99.999% sure

 

 

GAME OVER

 

Has nobody read the letter i prepared for the op with the unenforceable agreement post 2443?

The prescribed terms for a fixed sum agreement are on there and are the total creidt and the repayments.

 

Nothing else is a prescribed term on a fixed sum agreement as it also says these are contained within the regs in the bits i outlined

 

I also thought this letter might have sparked some cokmment even negative ones since it is presumable going to be used to start procedings against welcome.

 

peter

[Peterbard]

Probably no different from anyone else, but hey

 

 

Hi Thjis is ok

[Peterbard]

Sorry about that! I corrected the link.

 

 

 

And I hope you dont mind if I use that little bit of Gold dust to send to Welcome! I do have my own but this one is streets ahead!!

 

I think this is where most people get confused. It certainly got me thinking everything has interest on it!!

 

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq203/082stewie/Welcomestatementofprice.jpg

 

http://i448.photobucket.com/albums/qq203/082stewie/Pg2Welcome.jpg (I was trying to connect the link without being signed in -Ohhh Duuumb ass Stewie)

 

Hi Stewie seems fine to me .

I think i know ehat is causing the confusion i will try again to explain.

The three thngs that matter on an agreement are the APR the total credit nd the total charge for credit.

They are all inter related an if one alters they all alter.

When you make a repayment yu money is split and can only go into the total creit or the total charge for credit.

The TAP is formed by the addition of the tc +the tcc

the tap is everything you pay on the statement and the APR is a ratio which tells you how much of it yu pay off the credit and how much off the charges including interest.

 

These are set down in regtulations to give an idea of the fairness and attractiveness of the loan low APR good high bad.

 

 

As long as the tc tcc and repayments are as stated he can juggle the interst about however he likes it makes no differnce if he says he is charging interst on the interst of the interst.

What matters is what the APR says because that is what tells the customer how good the deal is and that will reflect the tc tcc and the repayment levels and intervals

 

Peter

[bobbydog]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/5029194/RBS-faces-500m-loss-on-Cattles.html

[andie_303]

now has anyone else seen in that telegraph link it says cattles has collapsed?

[082stewie]

Has nobody read the letter i prepared for the op with the unenforceable agreement post 2443?

The prescribed terms for a fixed sum agreement are on there and are the total creidt and the repayments.

 

Nothing else is a prescribed term on a fixed sum agreement as it also says these are contained within the regs in the bits i outlined

 

I also thought this letter might have sparked some cokmment even negative ones since it is presumable going to be used to start procedings against welcome.

 

peter

 

Hi Peter,

 

Thanks for having a look over the documents.

I think I get what you are saying. As long as the numbers match what is indicated in total charge for credit then they can slice and dice what makes up the monthly installment how they like? Why provide a statement of price that does not reflect true charges?

 

I am still trying to grasp it all. Its very complex and I think I need to get my coloring book and a box of crayola's out to get my head around this. My simple arguement is, are they allowed to charge for acceptance and broker fee included with the charge for credit.

I took out a loan with Lloyds Tsb shortly before this one, and the document is so much easier to read.

I think the layout of the contracts is a crime in itself!

 

As per your post 2443, I clearly see everything and its brother was thrown into one lump sum and this is devided by the rate stated. I do like your comments and you make reference to many acts Ive never heard of.

 

You are miles ahead of us on Welcome, what you have forgotten we are still getting to grips with. One thing is for sure, they change the agreements like most people do underwear!

 

 

Thanks

Stewie

[Peterbard]

Hi Peter,

 

Thanks for having a look over the documents.

I think I get what you are saying. As long as the numbers match what is indicated in total charge for credit then they can slice and dice what makes up the monthly installment how they like? Why provide a statement of price that does not reflect true charges?

 

I am still trying to grasp it all. Its very complex and I think I need to get my coloring book and a box of crayola's out to get my head around this. My simple arguement is, are they allowed to charge for acceptance and broker fee included with the charge for credit.

I took out a loan with Lloyds Tsb shortly before this one, and the document is so much easier to read.

I think the layout of the contracts is a crime in itself!

 

As per your post 2443, I clearly see everything and its brother was thrown into one lump sum and this is devided by the rate stated. I do like your comments and you make reference to many acts Ive never heard of.

 

You are miles ahead of us on Welcome, what you have forgotten we are still getting to grips with. One thing is for sure, they change the agreements like most people do underwear!

 

 

Thanks

Stewie

 

Hi

 

The thing is, if you are going to stand up in court and say your agreement is unenforceable you are going to have to understand why, and make it plain to a judge who is not nesseseraly going to be sympathetic to your case.

You will have to know what you are on about or he will let the oppostiions coucil walk all over you legislation or not.

If you can convince the other side that you know your stuff and you have a good case then it is likely that you will not even have to go to court. Hense the mention of the legalaties in the letter.

Perhaps i am doing you all a disservice by encouraging you to proceed in these actions when you are not ready?

 

Best regards

Peter

[082stewie]

Peter,

 

I dont think you are telling people to do anything. We approached you for your advice. If anyone wants to take action in the courts, then this is upto the individual.

 

I believe the only way we can be ready to defend anything is if we have the experiance and communication like we have started. I have gained alot from your pearls of wisdom, but I am still on the same course I was a few months ago. I have my agenda and sticking to it.

 

You shouldnt leave this thread because you feel you are doing an injustice by giving information, thats the last thing we need. We need all the helpful information possible.

 

Stewie:)

[bandape]

Just home from night shift and read your letter, post 2443. Thank you very much for taking the time to do this and for the advice you gave me (and others), I will get this away today and will update you on how it goes.

[082stewie]

Peter,

 

I dont think you are telling people to do anything. We approached you for your advice. If anyone wants to take action in the courts, then this is upto the individual.

 

I believe the only way we can be ready to defend anything is if we have the experiance and communication like we have started. I have gained alot from your pearls of wisdom, but I am still on the same course I was a few months ago. I have my agenda and sticking to it.

 

You shouldnt leave this thread because you feel you are doing an injustice by giving information, thats the last thing we need. We need all the helpful information possible.

 

Stewie:)

 

 

I should have added a few additional comments into the mix.

 

- We are all confused to hell and gone with the contacts, they are not the easiest things to work out.

 

- conflicting information coming in from all sides. Acceptance fee, PPI and broker fee's all being applied and everyone has different views. If they are allowed to be applied with interest or not etc etc. What is acceptable and what isnt.

 

- Charges being added to peoples accounts for phone calls etc.

 

- The whole NU and DG issue and is this going to have any bearing in the future. Alot of people are hoping contracts are scrapped because of this.

 

- Then the whole issue I have of statement of price Vs total amount for credit and what makes this up.

 

Hope this helps and we do appreciate your advice and would like you stay around.

 

Stewie

[andie_303]

peter next time you jump in can you have a look at this one for me?

 

I think I have them on something else (top secret) but just checking everthing - i think it's ok.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/payment-protection-insurance-ppi/181007-andrea-welcome-finance-ppi.html

[Dipply75]

Hi Peter

 

Can I echo Stewies sentiments completely, you are giving us your knowledge and answering our questions...it is up to us to understand and use that knowledge properly.

 

You have however made me see what I have been doing wrong...I have been looking for a quick simple explanation to go forward with...kidding myself! My nature is usually to dig something to death and find out as much as poss, I like to understand what I am dealing and have not done that, and obviously confusing myself and possibly others.

 

CCA 101, thats my plan for tonight.

[andie_303]

FYI - Just called DG and spoke with the same helpful manager that gave me all the info I needed a couple of months back - I asked her to tell me how much DG received with regards to my policies she then reeled off the figures that were on my agreement...

 

The conversation then went a little like this

 

Me - so that's the amount you got from Welcome?

DG - NO!! thats the amount you paid for your policy

Me - I'm well aware of that I could have looked on my agreement for that I'm wanting to know how much you got for this policy and how much was paid to NU

DG - I don't think I'm allowed to give you that - Can't you ask Welcome?

Me - Err no thats why I'm asking you, I can SAR you to get this information but I just thought as you were so helpful last time you would be as obliging again

DG - Can I just get you to hold??

 

5 minutes of silence

 

DG - Ok I will have to speak with someone higher up can I call you back?

 

I wonder if that higher up is straight to Welcome?

[pt2537]

FYI - Just called DG and spoke with the same helpful manager that gave me all the info I needed a couple of months back - I asked her to tell me how much DG received with regards to my policies she then reeled off the figures that were on my agreement...

 

The conversation then went a little like this

 

Me - so that's the amount you got from Welcome?

DG - NO!! thats the amount you paid for your policy

Me - I'm well aware of that I could have looked on my agreement for that I'm wanting to know how much you got for this policy and how much was paid to NU

DG - I don't think I'm allowed to give you that - Can't you ask Welcome?

Me - Err no thats why I'm asking you, I can SAR you to get this information but I just thought as you were so helpful last time you would be as obliging again

DG - Can I just get you to hold??

 

5 minutes of silence

 

DG - Ok I will have to speak with someone higher up can I call you back?

 

I wonder if that higher up is straight to Welcome?

Sadly, a SAR would not provide you the reply you need

 

and you make yourself look somewhat silly in threatening it, however, threaten them with pre action disclosure application under CPR 31.16 and an adverse costs order , now that will do the job and they would be compelled to disclose on order of the court

[andie_303]

Sadly, a SAR would not provide you the reply you need

 

and you make yourself look somewhat silly in threatening it, however, threaten them with pre action disclosure application under CPR 31.16 and an adverse costs order , now that will do the job and they would be compelled to disclose on order of the court

 

 

Ok thank you - but forgive me and my stupidity - but do they not have to disclose all information they have with regard to me and my account if produced with a SAR??

 

And if needs be is there a form or a letter for the pre action disclosure application?

 

Thanks Again

[Dipply75]

Message for Bandape (great news btw ) and Notsosure. Something Stewie pointed out to me and have noticed on both your agreements....

 

They do not mention charges at all? On Notsosure's they don't even mention the usual crap about you paying their 'reasonable costs' etc.

 

If they have ever hit you with a single charge (late payment/phone call/letter/cause we feel like it) get right in there and get your money back, along with the 8% interest.

 

I am

[pt2537]

Ok thank you - but forgive me and my stupidity - but do they not have to disclose all information they have with regard to me and my account if produced with a SAR??

 

And if needs be is there a form or a letter for the pre action disclosure application?

 

Thanks Again

a sar only covers personal data relating to the data subject.

 

the price of the ppi policy would not be personal data nor would the commissions paid between DG, Welcome and NU, they would be entitled to with hold on a SAR.

 

however , any undisclosed commissions give rise to a cause of action and thus if they refuse under a formal request, then you can slap a Preaction application in

 

see wilson vs hurstanger ltd para 31-51 for details on the relevence of the undisclosed commissions

[Dipply75]

Ok thank you - but forgive me and my stupidity - but do they not have to disclose all information they have with regard to me and my account if produced with a SAR??

 

And if needs be is there a form or a letter for the pre action disclosure application?

 

Thanks Again

 

Remember our discussion? There's the way of getting that special info which will corner them ;-)

 

What odds am I getting for my £10 now?

[andie_303]

Remember our discussion? There's the way of getting that special info which will corner them ;-)

 

What odds am I getting for my £10 now?

 

Phone call back from DG - Senior Manager

 

DG - Can I ask why you want this information

ME - You can ask but I'd rather not say at this point as it is part of a criminal investigation (tee hee)

DG - Well I've spoken with NU this morning and they should be calling you shortly to give you the information you need

ME - Ok but forgive my ignorance but as the administrator do you not have this information?

DG - As the administrator we refer all problems back to Welcome - now obviously I am aware of why Welcome will not converse with you so I have asked the underwriter to get involved and they will try and help

ME - Well ok but if they can't then I really will have no option but to do a pre action disclosure (thanks PT ) on all parties

DG - Well we would just forward that on to the underwriters we would not get involved with that

ME - So jsut to clarify you cannot or will not give me the information - can I ask if it's Cannot or Will Not?

DG - I think it's just best if you speak with NU when they call

ME - OK then

DG - I mean if you want to tell me what exactly it is you need and why I might be able to think of a way to help you

ME - I need to know how my policies were split who was paid what etc

DG - Well I can tell you how much your policies were

ME - With all due repsect I know that and you know that is not what I'm asking I what to know what money was paid where and who to - simple really

DG - NU are the best people to speak to and anything further you need I say it is best to speak with them we are instructed to forward queries like this straight to the underwriter

ME - Instructed by whom?

DG - They'll be calling you shortly sorry I couldn't help any further but give them as much information as they ask for and they will help.

[andie_303]

Remember our discussion? There's the way of getting that special info which will corner them ;-)

 

What odds am I getting for my £10 now?

 

Yes and now I know SAR aint it - I will wait for NU to call otherwise I'm gonna get reading up on these fancy disclosure thingys

[mojo8]

CATTLES Share Chat - Chat About CTT Shares - Stock Quotes, Charts, Trade History, Share Chat, Financial Terms Glossary

 

should this be a concern or am i panicking

[sammyc1974_Derby]

Just a very quick question, we purchased our car on the 9/9/2006, from ucan, our finance was done through welcome which we didn't know, now looking at the sales receipt the date is 09/09/2006, the finance agreemnt is date by the sales guy 13/09/2006....does this make any difference as we took the finance out on the 09/09/06 not 13/09/2006

[andie_303]

CATTLES Share Chat - Chat About CTT Shares - Stock Quotes, Charts, Trade History, Share Chat, Financial Terms Glossary

 

should this be a concern or am i panicking

 

 

Government backing yeah right - Even Gordon Brown aint stupid enough to prop up this one!

[mojo8]

Government backing yeah right - Even Gordon Brown aint stupid enough to prop up this one!

 

 

morning andie, hope your right

 

seems like some of the investors are getting quite excited by it all though

[andie_303]

morning andie, hope your right

 

seems like some of the investors are getting quite excited by it all though

 

probably trying to boost the prices cos they're carrying shares - seriously I'm a labour voter but I would turn tory if they did that - might just send a concerned letter to number 10 just for the crack