HSBC Letter Is So Confusing

[Kat Balou]

This is my first post and I think I am in the right place with all you other HSBC customers. I have read similiar cases to mine but still very confused about how to reply to their letter. They sent it on the 3rd July 2007 and have given us 8 weeks to reply otherwise they will assume that is the end of the matter.

The letter basically states that

"we are not willing to review the claim where a transaction exceeded a pre agreed facility. This will commonly include Money Transmission (cheques and credits), facility fees (Arrangement,Renewal and Temporary), stopped cheque charges, acquiring charges and the monthly maintenance charge any of which may have been included in the claim.

We will also reject any submitted claim that includes 3rd party fees, usually incurred in the submission of a claim as these may not be included either now or at a subsequent court submission.

Before we can properly consider your request we must understand precisely to which overdraft charges you refer and if you want to pursue this please write and give a specific breakdown detailing dates and amounts of charges in question.

Please note for the purpose of this excercise "Total Charges" as included with your schedule is insufficient as it comprises a number of various components which must be split out and itemised for the purposes of your claim. If you no longer hold details of these charges please let us know and we will arrange for duplicates to be sent for which a fee is payable.

If we do not hear from you within the next eight weeks we will consider matters resolved."

We do not know where to make a start with this even though other users seem to be experiencing the same dilemma.

The majority of our charges are Total Charges,Charge for Unpaid Item and Recall Standing Order or Direct Debit.

Does anyone know which of these we can still reclaim and what the Total Charges breakdown is?

Thanks for taking the time to read this epic.

[lateralus]

couple of questions, kat, is this a personal current account?

how did you compile your list of charges - (did you get them to send you your statements or did you get them on-line or did you go on statements you have still).

without knowing these answers - i'll just give you an overview:

first you need to know what charges you've been charged - so you send a subject access request - asking for all the info they hold on you - it can take 40 days to get this and you usually send a cheque for £10 with the request -although they generally send it back.

this is the template:1. Data Protection Act, Subject Access Request letter - List of charges

 

once you have the statements - you can compile a list of charges - use this list to see which you can claim back; Charges description on statements - Please Read also the newer named charges arrangement fees and notification fee are also reclaimable.

 

my son's claim included only TOTAL CHARGES and RECALL S/O,D/D;

so to say that total charges isn't enough is just silly - although if you are claiming on a business account - then the total charges does need to be broken down - so get back if that's the case.

 

you make a list of all the charges - add them up and send the preliminary request:2. Letter - Preliminary approach for repayment

 

you wait 14 days and then send the LBA: 3. Letter before action - Consumer version - asking for it back

 

The letter they have sent is just a general fob off letter.

you keep to the schedule - although you should take the time between letters to keep reading and make sure your schedule of charges is correct and up to date. you can add charges right up until you file the court claim.

 

You may be aware - the banks are now being taken to court in a test case by the OFT and that means the banks are using this as an excuse not to make offers or do anything at all in relation to the charges -

 

our advise is to carry on - keep to the schedule and file the claim when you can. it will put you in a holding pattern until the case is heard - but hopefully it will help you get your money back - although saying that - the rules of engagement have changed since 26 july and it will now take a whole lot longer to get a result.

 

get back with questions. here's one more bit for you to read:

 

OFT Test claim: What this means for you

also, follow the newcomer link in my signature to get further help along the way in the early days of your claim.

 

good luck with you claim

[Kat Balou]

Thanks very much for your response lateralus.

I am helping my brother claim his bank charges back on

1. Personal current account

2. Business account.

The letter above was the response from HSBC regarding his Business Account. I compiled the list of charges from the 6 years of statements that my brother requested from them (by post).

I have sent the first letter to the bank ( I originally used the one from Money Saving Expert site) for his personal current account with a list of the charges taken from his statements. They didn't reply to this in the time scale so I sent the second letter telling them we would take further action by going to Court.(we posted this letter yesterday).

I am not sure how to word my letter responding to the "confusing letter" for his Business Account, as it seems the bank are waiting to hear from us now and want us to tell them what we are trying to claim for.

How do I find out what part of Total Charges we can claim back?

I also claimed for the other charges on his statements which are

Charges

Charge Unpaid Item

Total Charges

Recall S/O - D/D

Unpaid Item

 

Are these reclaimable in full on a Business Account?

The bank are obviously waiting for us to make the next move now and we have about 2 weeks left before they "will consider the matter resolved"

What should be our next step?

The links in your signature are great for a newcomer like me and I will carry on reading the other threads.

Many thanks

Kat

[jowalshy]

If you are trying to claim for charges that relate to maintenance of the business account eg the charges they charge you for having a business account, then these charges are not reclaimable. As for the charges for unpaid items, recall S/o & D/D, are reclaimable. When you hold a normal personal current account and you get charged "total charges" this usually means a charge for going over an agreed overdraft limit. On a business account you will need to find out the daily charge rate for going over the agreed limit and mulitply this by the amount of days you went over the limit for the period the "total charges" realte to. Do you have any paperwork which state the period the "total charges " relate to.

[Kat Balou]

Good morning jowalshy.

No, we only have the statements which we requested from HSBC.

[lateralus]

celicaman is my business manager - in charge of business claims - so you might like to ask him

but each month you get some sort of a breakdown with the charges for a business account - and you need those to see what the charges are exactly. if you don't have them - you'll need to get them from the bank - either by asking or going in and feigning a need for some reason (presumably not to reclaim charges - like you accountant needs replacements or something)

 

aside from that - i know very little about business claims.

here - A guide to Business Claims

 

 

it would probably make it less confusing - for me anyway - to have two threads going - one for the personal and one for the business - that would help us help you

[Kat Balou]

Thanks for getting back to me.

The confusing letter is regarding the Business Account.

I think I am confused becuse I have read other posts and realise that Total Charges are different when it is a Business Account.

I have only got the statements we sent for from the bank for the last 6 years.

I am not sure how the breakdown of these Total Charges is allocated and what we can claim back or what is a legitimate charge.

Can I claim back in full the other items on the statement e.g.

Recall S/O-D/D

Stopped cheque

Unpaid item

Charges

Thankyou for persevering with me on this.

Kat

[Celicaman]

Hi KB, Lattie asked me to pop in.

This is for the business claim.

What you really need is the summary sheet that the bank sends just before the statements each month.

The charges on this sheet appear as 'Total charges' on the statements.Your brother should have these with his statements as with business accounts he must keep all the records for at least 6 years.

On there it lists what various charges are for and debit interest charged etc.

You cant claim for commission charges, ie a charge for items paid in & out of the account, they are usually around 60p per cheque, Credit paid in, SO & DD payments, there may also be a monthly Fee of £2.50 or £3.00. Also you cant claim for stopped cheque items as this is where you have stopped a cheque.

You can claim for overdraft fees, excess overdraft fees and any daily excess fees they charge (usually £4 or £8 per day)

 

On the main statements it will show charges for 'recall charge' 'SO & DD recall' You Can claim these back.

'arrangement fee' this one is for when they allow you to go over your overdraft limit, and usually get a letter saying ' we have agreed to your request for an overdraft' ( you didnt ask for anything, but they use it to get £25 out of you). They try to disguise this as an informal request for an overdraft !

You can claim these back and are usually £25 per time they 'agreed' to your request.

 

There is however a Legit 'Arrangement fee' this is when you have actually asked for a new or higher limit, & these can be a one off charge of £50- £200 upwards, depending on the limit you require and you Cant claim this back.

 

'Unpaid item' This is where somebody has given you a cheque & it has bounced, you get charged £4 for this and to confirm this , your statement should show the item being taken back out the account & represented again. You cant claim this back.

 

The bank know what charges you can claim back, but you have to prove to them which ones as they arent going to help you.

What you need to ask bank for is a full breakdown of all charges applied to the account or copies of the Summary sheets (not statements) then you can work out what to claim back. You will also then be able to work out how much interest on the charges to claim back. (you need statements & summary to worl this out). HSBC will say they dont pay this but they will if you include it in your claim and file at court.(this is not the same as Stat 8% interest applid at court)

May be worth your brother going to the bank and asking there, he may have to be persuasive there, maybe read up on the SARS stuff so he can explain that they must supply this information, other than that use the SARS template letters, but he may just get a second set of statements !

 

Anything else needs clarifying just Ask

 

Celicaman

[Kat Balou]

Hi Celicaman

Thanks very much for getting in touch and thanks to lateralus too.

This looks really helpful and I can see some of the charges we can reclaim (recall S/O-D/D0, although no-where near what we had originally claimed.

Total Charges makes up most of the charges he is trying to claim.

I'll get my brother to write to the bank and request they provide a full breakdown of charges which they have applied to the account.

I think he will also need to ask for the Summary sheets as this will then keep us in contact with the bank within the 8 week deadline they gave us (4th July when they wrote to my brother) and also keep the claim going.

I don't want to appear totally thick Celicaman, but what is the SARS stuff and where would I find the template?

Do I sound as though I am on the right track?

I am an absolute novice on forums so I could get lost quite easily but thanks for sticking with me.

Kat

[lateralus]

i put most of the templates for you in that post earlier - :1. Data Protection Act, Subject Access Request letter - List of charges

sar = subject access request

 

keeping an eye on this one too A guide to Business Claims(

[Kat Balou]

Sorry lateralus

I will go off and have a look and see what I can make of it all.

Thanks again.

Be warned, I have a feeling I might be on here a few more times yet, so I hope you're patient.

[Kat Balou]

I'm back just to ask about the Data Protection Act - Subject Access Request Letter- List of Charges you directed me to earlier. This is similiar to the template we used from Money Saving Expert when we requested the 6 years of statements and sent them £10 for the priviledge.

Is this the one I should use to ask them for a full breakdown of charges and do I need to send them another £10 or will an ordinary letter do the same job?

Kat

[lateralus]

let's get you sorted with another thread so i stop being confused -

press this and start a new thread and call is something like kat's brother's personal account

then let's get the personal background on the first post and we can go on from there -

this one can be the business account as you've already got some good advice from others -

 

i'm very easily confused - this way you can keep question about personal account on that one and business account updates on this one.

[Kat Balou]

Sorry for the confusion lateralus.

I have started the new thread and called it what you suggested.

I will stick to only things relating to the business account here.

The story so far.

We sent for 6 years of statements and sent £10 to the HSBC.

The statements landed and I highlighted all of the charges.

I sent a letter to the bank requesting they pay back the charges and I included a schedule of the charges.

They sent the confusing letter as their response.

This is when I discovered this fab forum to help me sort out what types of charges I could claim back eg Total Charges.

It's this Total Charges bit that I am stuck on at the moment.

You have all been really helpful and I feel as though I am making progress now so thanks very much.

Kat

[jowalshy]

You really need to get HSBC to breakdown what these "total charges " are for.

[Kat Balou]

They seem to be made up of various bits from what I have read previously.

I have checked the statements we sent for and Total Charges is always for £27.50.

I am assuming it is for the previous month for example on the 3rd July it says Total Charges to 11th June and it says the same for each month.

The bank did end their letter by saying that they will arrange for duplicate copies to be sent, although there will be a fee payable for the work involved..

I think I will pen a letter asking them for a copy of the breakdown of these charges.

I assume I will only need one copy as all the Total Charges have been the same.

I 'm going to have a look at their website and see if I can get anything from there first.

Thanks to all of you who have responded.

[lateralus]

i do know we had a real little gang of peeps with this problem a couple of months back - i'll put a few on here for you to look at - you could always try to pm them and see how they managed if the posts don't give you enough to go on:

HSBC Business account total charges

Hsbc Total Charges (1 2 3)

make_me_happy v HSBC - closed business account ***WON*** (1 2)

make_me_happy

In that last one look at the letter she got from hsbc in about post 6 and from there -

it's just pushing the right buttons, asking for the right thing and you may get what you need just by asking politely at the right place and right time. keep at it - several have and gotten there in the end.

 

 

i've looked these up by using the blue strip line across th top of the forum - about half way across is search - put in something like business claims, pre-notification or some other words and see what comes up - look down the right side for hsbc threads and you may hit paydirt.

 

 

 

and here's a little light reading if you are interested - it was a long running battle with a happy ending:Business account over 19,000 in bank charges.** SETTLED IN FULL *** (1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page)

[Kat Balou]

Thanks lateralus.

I will have a look through all of these and come back to let you know how I'm doing with this.