lloydstsb credit card ppi

[cougar25]

seems i got the wrong end of the stick entirely with sectiong,..my fault for not looking to see how other people have managed section g on the forum. have found some absolutely excellent information and guides on how to do this, ... so much so ive asked the court to strike out the defence because of the way in which lloyds handle cases like these by stalling and abusing the system e.t.c.

 

Am feeling much happier about this now, even if the judge feels this not appropriate, i still feel like ive got my point across,..lol

 

Let this be a lesson to me to read the forum first RTBF (read the bloody forum)

[cougar25]

ok update for all you guys that are following this still,..and thanks to all of you that are and have given me advice thus far.

 

i now have a date set for the hearing, which is the 31st july.

 

i have untill 14 days before the hearing to supply all documents.

 

am a bit concerned about my readiness for such an event as im still learning as i go.

 

have to pay 150 quid by 26th june.

 

the thought of going to court is daunting and you can see why lloyds fight theses cases this way!!

[cougar25]

bump!!

[hellhasnofury]

ok update for all you guys that are following this still,..and thanks to all of you that are and have given me advice thus far.

 

i now have a date set for the hearing, which is the 31st july.

 

i have untill 14 days before the hearing to supply all documents.

 

am a bit concerned about my readiness for such an event as im still learning as i go.

 

have to pay 150 quid by 26th june.

 

the thought of going to court is daunting and you can see why lloyds fight theses cases this way!!

 

Hello Cougar,

 

Get reading and educating yourself. There is lots of useful information in this link

 

Useful Documents for PPI Bundles

 

Keep us posted and any questions, ask:D

[cougar25]

ive brought guide for small claims by patricia pearl and have educated myself a bit, so i feel more confident as to how i procede now.

the court hearing was adjourned as i was in the process of moving and was disorganized and busy to say the least.

court date is now set for sptember 22nd and i am working on getting all my documents together for the court bundle.

 

bit of a problem because i had a pc crash and lost some of the information about letters that i sent and recieved,..as i was keeping track!!

 

luckily i have most of what i need printed off!!

 

I would love to pick some peoples brains at this point.

 

there is really 2 issues.

 

firstly they mis sold ppi to me.

 

and secondly they took too long with the cca request.

 

im thinking i may have missed the main point here,.which is that under the credit act, an agreement cant be enforced after the 12+30 days rule, shouldnt i be aiming to void the entire agreement as apposed to claiming back ppi?

 

would appreciate a quick response here as i have to have my court bundle prepared asap to send off.

[hellhasnofury]

ive brought guide for small claims by patricia pearl and have educated myself a bit, so i feel more confident as to how i procede now.

the court hearing was adjourned as i was in the process of moving and was disorganized and busy to say the least.

court date is now set for sptember 22nd and i am working on getting all my documents together for the court bundle.

 

bit of a problem because i had a pc crash and lost some of the information about letters that i sent and recieved,..as i was keeping track!!

 

luckily i have most of what i need printed off!!

 

I would love to pick some peoples brains at this point.

 

there is really 2 issues.

 

firstly they mis sold ppi to me.

 

and secondly they took too long with the cca request.

 

im thinking i may have missed the main point here,.which is that under the credit act, an agreement cant be enforced after the 12+30 days rule, shouldnt i be aiming to void the entire agreement as apposed to claiming back ppi?

 

would appreciate a quick response here as i have to have my court bundle prepared asap to send off.

 

Hello Cougar,

 

Hope you are well:D

 

As regarding the credit agreement, did they breach the time limit on the section 77/78 request, but came up with it in the end,

[cougar25]

Hello Cougar,

 

Hope you are well:D

 

As regarding the credit agreement, did they breach the time limit on the section 77/78 request, but came up with it in the end,

 

yes im thankyou. Glad to hear from you again

 

yes thats what they done.

 

im also curious, even if a credit agreement cant be enforced, does this just mean they dont have the power to force you to pay up, so the debt will still exist and show up on your credit file?

[hellhasnofury]

yes im thankyou. Glad to hear from you again

 

yes thats what they done.

 

im also curious, even if a credit agreement cant be enforced, does this just mean they dont have the power to force you to pay up, so the debt will still exist and show up on your credit file?

 

Hello Cougar,

 

My understanding of a breach of section 77/78 is that if they fail to respond within the given timescales, they have breach the cca, the account can be put into legal dispute by the debtor and creditor cannot taken any action to enforce the debt via the court. This is only until such a time as they do produce it.

 

The credit agreement once produced must contain the prescribed terms under differing sections of the cca for it to be enforceable

 

~The debt will still exist and yes they will probably breach the OFT debt collection guidence and show this on your credit file as a default and then sell it on to a dca:evil:

 

You can dispute this with them and ultimately sue them for a breach of the dpa. Depends if you like the fight. I do:-D

[cougar25]

Depends if you like the fight. I do:-D

 

lol,.. i smell instigation!!

 

Thanks for your reply,..thats really helped me understand the situation.

 

Normally i would be up for the fight but i dont think it would suit my circumstances at the moment to risk damaging my ever so slowly recovering credit file!

ive only just sold the house and am attempting to become clear of my debts,..no thanks for northern rock for adding redemption penalty after refusing to port mortgage!! but thats another issue and one you might see posted anytime soon!

 

ive put together my court bundle and have sent it off today to the court and lloyds' solicitors.

 

its strange,... i dont even know what the inside of a court room looks like,...im quite looking forward to it!!:grin:

 

best regards

cougar

[hellhasnofury]

lol,.. i smell instigation!!

 

Thanks for your reply,..thats really helped me understand the situation.

 

Normally i would be up for the fight but i dont think it would suit my circumstances at the moment to risk damaging my ever so slowly recovering credit file!

ive only just sold the house and am attempting to become clear of my debts,..no thanks for northern rock for adding redemption penalty after refusing to port mortgage!! but thats another issue and one you might see posted anytime soon!

 

ive put together my court bundle and have sent it off today to the court and lloyds' solicitors.

 

its strange,... i dont even know what the inside of a court room looks like,...im quite looking forward to it!!:grin:

 

best regards

cougar

 

Yes Cougar, you are very correct in not jumping out of the frying pan into the fire, unfortunately for me I have no choice, I have to fight to keep them at bay, oh and get back the pound of flesh they took from me.

 

As for the inside of a court, I too had never previously been inside a court before this year, and I have now been twice. I felt that it was very informal, just like telling your story, but knowing about the relevant legislation. Little bit daunting, but if you do your homework you will be fine.

 

Good luck and keep us posted:grin:

[cougar25]

thanks for all the advice youve given you really are a star!

 

I remeber you saying some months ago about a similar claim you were starting,..have you won your arguement?

[cougar25]

COURT TOMORROW!!!

 

Am preparing an opening statement,..if anyone has any tips, it would be appreciated.

[cougar25]

bump!

[hellhasnofury]

COURT TOMORROW!!!

 

Am preparing an opening statement,..if anyone has any tips, it would be appreciated.

 

Hello Cougar,

 

Sorry just got your post, When you say an opening statement, do you mean a skeleton arguement.?????

 

This is one I did to lift a stay of the abbey court case I have, it may give you an idea. You need to amend it to your case. It is just like bullet pointing the main principles of your arguement. If you look at your witness statement you can grasp the main points. Maybe put something like

 

Claim no xxxxxxxxxxxxx In the xxxxxx County Court

 

Cougar (Claimant)

and

 

 

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

SKELETON ARGUMENT FOR THE CLAIMANT(Litigant in person)

 

In the proceedings on 25th February 2008 at 12.30pm of the Claimant’s xxxxxxx.The Claimant will rely on the following submissions:

1.) Put your main points.briefly

 

signed Date

 

Ask permission to give the Judge one and the defendants one too.

 

This will help you as a check list to also keep you on track:-D

 

Before you go in, the defendant may approach you to talk to you. Tell them unless they are prepared to settle your complaint now, you are not prepared to open into discussions with them, as their ploy maybe to undermind your confidence before you go infront of the judge:rolleyes:

 

Stay strong, and take a deep breath and think before you speak. Have the confidence that you are right and they are wrong. You only want fairness and a return of your money to put you into a position that you where in before they mis-sold you ppi. Remember to mention the investigations of the oft and the fsa and the matter now being investigate by the commissioners office:-D They all can't be wrong can they:p

 

Good luck and I will be thinking of you and sending positive vibes:D

 

 

[cougar25]

many thanks hhnf!!

have just got back from the court.

 

The first thing the judge said was that the claim should be taken as 2 parts. The first agreement which was selected for ppi and the upgrade agreement which was not.

he went on to say that he felt fraud was a very serious allegation to make and that he suspected i meant that i was mis lead or perhaps not given the appropriate information,.. which i agreed to. so fraud allegation was dropped.

 

he then asked if the application form was filled out by myself to which i replied no as the account manager did this for me. At which point i suddenly realised that this was one point i didnt make clear,...(i know ,..dumbass)

the judge ordered a statement from me to be sent to the court and the defendent naming names and exactly how the application was conducted.

so he adjourned until the next available date.

 

He gave me and the barrister the impretion that the second part of the case relating to the upgrade agreement was substantially more solid than the first. therefore he recommended that the barrister talk to the legal team to see if they would like to make an offer to me on that basis. Afterwards the barrister stated that he would make the phone call if i agreed that i would accept part payment from the date of the second application,..to which i told him not to make the phone call on that basis.

 

therefore i now have around 2-3 weeks to prepare a statement and send off to other parties, and await a reply.

 

he also went on to say that the case is concerning damages plus interest,..not charges? not 100% sure how this affects the contractual interest claim?

 

and also he said that the next course of action for the defense would most likely be course of dealings. which i believe means that the ppi apeared on my statements and i should have noticed it.

 

apparently the barrister informed me that the main thing concerning the bank was the allegation of fraud. As this is so serious they almost have to prepare a defense. so in a way the main theme of their defense i feel was not relevant.

the judge seems to think that now there is going to be statements involved, the next time we come to court will take the full 2 and a half hours!!

[hellhasnofury]

many thanks hhnf!!

have just got back from the court.

 

The first thing the judge said was that the claim should be taken as 2 parts. The first agreement which was selected for ppi and the upgrade agreement which was not.

he went on to say that he felt fraud was a very serious allegation to make and that he suspected i meant that i was mis lead or perhaps not given the appropriate information,.. which i agreed to. so fraud allegation was dropped. MMMhh there has been discussion in the stickies re the fraud angle, and how kind was the judge to highlight this for you and allow you to drop this

 

he then asked if the application form was filled out by myself to which i replied no as the account manager did this for me. At which point i suddenly realised that this was one point i didnt make clear,...(i know ,..dumbass)

the judge ordered a statement from me to be sent to the court and the defendent naming names and exactly how the application was conducted.

so he adjourned until the next available date. I do believe this judge was looking out for you and what an excellent move. Bet the bank will really love him for that one, Maybe commission springs to mind!!!!!!!!!! be nice to find some info on this.

 

He gave me and the barrister the impretion that the second part of the case relating to the upgrade agreement was substantially more solid than the first. therefore he recommended that the barrister talk to the legal team to see if they would like to make an offer to me on that basis. Afterwards the barrister stated that he would make the phone call if i agreed that i would accept part payment from the date of the second application,..to which i told him not to make the phone call on that basis.

 

Good for you, still trying to wriggle out of fairness

 

therefore i now have around 2-3 weeks to prepare a statement and send off to other parties, and await a reply. Loads of time what does he want you to put in relation to the statement

he also went on to say that the case is concerning damages plus interest,..not charges? not 100% sure how this affects the contractual interest claim? Possibly doesn't. Does he mean that the resultant factor of them mis-seling the ppi caused you damage.

 

and also he said that the next course of action for the defense would most likely be course of dealings. which i believe means that the ppi apeared on my statements and i should have noticed it. No I disagree on that one. The agreement forwarded possibly already had the ppi applied and was given to you for signature, therefore not optional, did you ever receive the policy documents or the terms and conditions for review.

 

apparently the barrister informed me that the main thing concerning the bank was the allegation of fraud. As this is so serious they almost have to prepare a defense. so in a way the main theme of their defense i feel was not relevant. Oh they sent a barrister, well he/she didn't get very far

the judge seems to think that now there is going to be statements involved,probably more denials and untruths. the next time we come to court will take the full 2 and a half hours!!

 

Well Cougar, went to court today and survived. Hey and don't call yourself names, how brave are you to do this:D

 

By what you have said, I think that you have had a fair judge, who appeared to be clued up with these institutes.

 

Have you thought about asking for evidence of commission based incentatives for employees, under the CPR and put them to strict proof of this.

 

Anyway well done, Maybe have a glass or two of wine tonight and then start your homework to get things watertight.

[cougar25]

Well Cougar, went to court today and survived. Hey and don't call yourself names, how brave are you to do this:D

 

By what you have said, I think that you have had a fair judge, who appeared to be clued up with these institutes.

 

Have you thought about asking for evidence of commission based incentatives for employees, under the CPR and put them to strict proof of this. I dont know about cpr, can i do this? i wouldnt want to offend the judge. do you think i should do this? i seen barristers walking around with books 2 inches thick on Civil procedure rules!!

 

Anyway well done, Maybe have a glass or two of wine tonight and then start your homework to get things watertight.

 

and also he said that the next course of action for the defense would most likely be course of dealings. which i believe means that the ppi apeared on my statements and i should have noticed it. No I disagree on that one. The agreement forwarded possibly already had the ppi applied and was given to you for signature, therefore not optional, did you ever receive the policy documents or the terms and conditions for review.

I believe i really need to work on this bit,..the judge made the first part of the claim sound very weak indead. I need to make the points you raise crystal clear in the statement.

 

and you can bet your life im taking a break tonight,..lol

when i got home i couldnt think,..its great being able to talk to like minded individuals in this situation!!

as allways hhnf i appreciate all your advice,.

Am going to attempt a draft statement tomorrow morning,..so ill check in tomorrow to let you know how its going.

best regards

cougar

[alanalana]

Hello cougar,

 

well done on the court stuff. I am going down the FOS route which will take longer but I still have the court option left if the FOS do no uphold my complaint.

 

Hope you get everything tied up for round 2 and I am positive hhnf will be a great help to you.

 

No doubt I will become more familiar with the Court stuff in the future.

 

Keep on with the fight.

 

aa

[hellhasnofury]

Here is a link to the cpr

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/proc...enus/rules.htm

 

I am unsure as to whether or not it is too late to ask for information and evidence towards commission based selling from them. I will keeping looking for something.

 

I have posted up a question of the legalities section with a link to your thread to so if we can get assistance from those who are in the know:-D

[cougar25]

excellent many thanks ,..

where would i be without you!!

[e_inspired]

Hi Caugar25

 

I think the part of the CPR you require is:

 

PRACTICE DIRECTION – FURTHER INFORMATION - This Practice Direction supplements CPR Part 18

 

An example:

 

http://www.4-front-removals.co.uk/particularsrequest.pdf

 

Regards

 

e_inspired

Edited September 23, 2008 by e_inspired
Added link to example

[cougar25]

Hi Caugar25

 

I think the part of the CPR you require is:

 

PRACTICE DIRECTION – FURTHER INFORMATION - This Practice Direction supplements CPR Part 18

 

An example:

 

http://www.4-front-removals.co.uk/particularsrequest.pdf

 

Regards

 

e_inspired

 

many thenks e

 

i think your right. i think part 18 would cover making a request before the hearing. i'm going to draft a request, and send it with my statement. this should (if im right) strengthen the first part of my claim, with regards to tackling the course of dealings issue.

 

Many thanks for the example too!!

[ukaviator]

Here you go, amend to suit.

 

 

 

CLAIM NUMBER: *******

In the XXXXXXX COUNTY COURT

 

Between:

 

[YOU]

Claimant

 

 

 

 

-And-

 

 

 

LlOYDSTSB

Defendant

 

 

_______________________

 

 

REQUESTFOR INFORMATION AND

 

 

CLARIFICATION UNDER CPR PART 18

_________________________ _____

 

DATE OF SERVICE: [date sent]

This request for information under CPR part 18 is served notwithstanding anticipated future track allocation. I believe that the court would consider this request as appropriate in the context of clarifying matters to which your Defence directly refers. In the event you ignore or do not comply fully with this request, a formal application may be submitted to the court for an order under part 18.

1. Please provide copies of the terms and conditions governing the account in question and which are referred to in your Defence. The terms and conditions required are those that formed the contract between the Claimant and Defendant covering the entire period from when contract was first entered into until the present day, including amendments or alterations where appropriate.

 

2. In relation to each and every breach by the Claimant which resulted in a charge being levied as confirmed by the Defendant in its Defence, please provide full details (with all relevant supporting documentation) of any letters, telephone calls, or incidents of manual intervention into the account in respect of each and every charge claimed by the Claimant in the Particulars of Claim.

 

3. If the Defendant employs or operates any system, either automated or manually operated or otherwise, which is used to assess, audit, track or refine the costs or "administrative expenses" of dealing with current accounts incidents - in particular any delinquency incidents, such as refusal or otherwise of direct debits, referral of cheques for any reason, refusing or permitting any formally agreed overdraft limit to be exceeded or any other delinquency event, such a systems existence is required to be confirmed and named and full details given.

 

4. The Defendant’s assessment of the cost to it of sending any letter making any telephone call or otherwise administering the account, with details of how the cost to the Defendant is calculated and what items of expense are included, or such other costs as are foreseeable in the context of contractual damages and the remoteness thereof and which can be specifically identified and defined and which can be reasonably attributed to each and every breach on the part of the Claimant.

 

5. The justifiably objective principles upon which all such costs are calculated and result in the specific level of each charge levied by the bank in respect of each of the breaches which resulted in the charges now claimed by the Claimant.

 

6. Please provide copies of all notes, memoranda, or other information retained by the defendant to demonstrate the provision of the alleged services to the claimant.

 

7. Please confirm whether charges are applied automatically.

 

A full response to each and every point of this request should be served within 14 days, by [date].

Please note that the response must be verified by a statement of truth.

 

[hellhasnofury]

Many Thanks UKA, you are so helpful:D

 

Cougar, this one is for bank charges, so as the very good UKA has stated, amend it to your own case regarding commission based selling

[cougar25]

thanks guys, this is amazing.

 

i have drafted a part 18 request this morning. i have purpously kept it short so that i dont annoy the judge by asking for lots of information in a short timescale.

 

see what you think.

 

CLAIM NUMBER: XXXXXXXX

In the xxxx COUNTY COURT

 

Between:

XXXX

Claimant

 

 

-And-

 

 

LloydsTSB

Defendant

_______________________

REQUESTFOR INFORMATION AND

CLARIFICATION UNDER CPR PART 18

_________________________ _____

 

DATE OF SERVICE: [date sent]

This request is for information under CPR part 18. I believe that the court would consider this request as appropriate in the context of clarifying matters to which your Defence directly refers. In the event you ignore or do not comply fully with this request, a formal application may be submitted to the court for an order under part 18.

1. Please provide evidence of all bonuses and commission based incentives offered to the employees of the defendant in relation to the sale of its products or services and in particular that of payment protection insurance.

 

2. In addition please disclose the sales targets of the employees of the defendant in relation to its products or services and in particular that of payment protection insurance.

 

3. Please disclose If the Defendant employs or operates any system, either automated or manually operated or otherwise, which is used to monitor,check or supervise the sale of payment protection insurance to ensure that errors omissions and misrepresentations are noticed.

 

A full response to each and every point of this request should be served within 14 days, by [date].

Please note that the response must be verified by a statement of truth.