WendyN vs. HSBC

[WendyN]

Hello,

 

just letting you know that I have sent my first letter off to HSBC asking for a total of £1330 to be refunded to me. Thanks very much to you all for your information and advice - I wouldn't have been able to calculate the interest without you! I will keep you posted on how it all develops. Fingers crossed!

 

WendyN

 

PS: For anyone who uses HSBC internet banking: your last six years' statements should be linked to your internet account - just go to 'my statements' and work through them. It takes a while, but not quite as long as waiting for HSBC to do it themselves! :o)

[dolly]

Good luck

 

Keep us updated.

[WendyN]

Hiya,

 

received a letter yesterday saying that they are 'looking into the issues I have raised'. Will keep you posted.

 

Wendy

:grin:

[maverik1979]

yeah its just a standard response, dont worry about it,

 

carry on

[WendyN]

Hiya,

 

Second letter sent 05/07/06 giving them another 14 days to respond.

Response below received this morning 06/07/06 (must have crossed in post).

 

Question 1 - is this the standard scare tactics letter?

Question 2 - I have given them an extra 14 days to respond, but do I take it that this is the response, and it's a resounding 'no'?!

Question 3 - straight to the small claims court then, or do I need to send them a letter notifying them of my intention to do this?

 

Thanks for your help guys!

 

W

 

Letter:

 

"I write further to your letter ... blah blah blah...

 

Under the bank's charges tariff, the provision of cheque books and cards, the payment of cheques and Direct Debits, together with the collection of salaries and other deposits, all continue to be provided free of charge. A regular statement is provided free, in order that you may reconcile the figures with your own budget.

 

If there are insufficient funds available to meet cheques or Direct Debits however, the bank has to decide whether to return the items unpaid, or to pay the balance over the agreed limit. Similarly, the bank is aware that on occasions customers may need to access funds in anticipation of a salary or other deposit. For this reason the bank will allow a limited tolerance at cash machines and retail outlets in order to avoid embarrassment which rejection can cause. On each occasion the bank pays the balance causing the account to go overdrawn, or exceed an agreed limit, a fee of £25 will be applied, subject to a maximum of five fees per month, i.e. £125. If a cheque, standing order or Direct Debit has to be returned unpaid, a charge of £30 is applied for each item. This charge may be reduced to £10 if the value of the item is small.

 

We do not agree with your contention that the charges that have been imposed by the Bank consitute a penalty clause and are therefore unenforceable. The contract between the Bank and its customer is governed by HSBC's standard Terms & Conditions. In respect of unauthorised overdrafts, the relevant clauses are 7.11 to 7.18. In these circumstances, there is a process that involves the Bank considering whether or not to pay the item. A fee is payable for this and the fees are set out in the published price list.

 

We enclose a copy for your reference, etc. etc. ... ...

 

I can confirm that the charges have been applied correctly and it is not the bank's usual policy to refund charges correctly applied in accordance with our published tariff. Therefore, I am unable to offer any refund of charges, may I suggest that you ensure your account operates within your overdraft facilities from now onwards. This will ensure that no further items are returned unpaid, and no further charges applied.

 

Naturally I would not wish to see you inconvenienced in this manner again, particularly as you can enjoy charges-free banking when your balance is maintained in credit, The bank has a number of methods available through which you can monitor your account, these include internet banking and telephone banking, in addition to our traditional branch network. Balances can also be obtained through our extensive network of cash machines.

 

Thank you once again for taking the time to bring your concern to the bank's attention, blah blah blah ... ... "

[maverik1979]

pff , its a standard letter, ignore and continue with your timetable, so wait for 14 days being up then go to MCOL, provided your second letter was LBA right?

[WendyN]

Yes, it was the one that ends with:

"I require repayment in full of this money and removal of the default notice. If you do not comply fully within 14 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest plus a claim under ss.7 and 13 of the Data Protection Act 1998 plus my costs and without further notice."

They have until 21st July then!

Will keep you updated,

Wendy

[maverik1979]

Yes, it was the one that ends with:

"I require repayment in full of this money and removal of the default notice. If you do not comply fully within 14 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest plus a claim under ss.7 and 13 of the Data Protection Act 1998 plus my costs and without further notice."

 

They have until 21st July then!

Will keep you updated,

 

Wendy

you didnt mention anything about a default notice, or is it that you just copied it straight here from the library?

[WendyN]

Copied it straight from the library - it's that letter. I removed any reference to default notices in my own letter because I don't think I have any!

[maverik1979]

thought so, just checking

[WendyN]

Hello,

 

received another response from HSBC, telling me to s*d off... (I'm paraphrasing, obviously!) So now I've given them the full 28 days, and I'm about to make a claim on Money Claim Online. Am a bit nervous, and want to make sure I'm doing this right. Does this sound OK?

 

"I have a contract with the HSBC Bank dated 1993, conducted on their standard terms and conditions. HSBC’s charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law. Despite repeated requests, HSBC has not been able to justify them. As a disproportionate penalty they are invalid under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Para.8 and sch.2(1)(e). In the event that the charges are not a penalty then they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15. I wish to claim £1,052.00 in charges taken by the HSBC over the last 6 years, plus £278.14 in interest levied on them. (Cost breakdown available if required.) I claim interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from 16/06/00-20/06/06: £252.43 on the charges and £42.62 on the interest, making a total of £1625.19. I also wish to claim interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of £0.22."

A couple of extra questions - up to now I have been sending the letters to

Mr. M Bowden

Customer Service Manager

HSBC Bank plc

Customer Credit Services

Sheffield S1 2US

Do I put his name on the claim?

Also, how do I attach the breakdown of costs if I'm claiming online? I have referred to it being available in my statement, is this enough?

Thanks for your help,

Wendy

[WendyN]

Hi chaps,

 

have found elsewhere on the forum that the correct address for MCOL is:

Mr. David Lewis,

Head of Customer Relations,

Level 36,

8 Canada Square,

London,

E14 5HQ

 

and here's my final wording, adapted from the guide in the FAQs section

(with the right number of characters & lines - what a hassle getting that right!)

 

"I have a contract with the HSBC Bank dated 1993,

conducted on their standard terms and conditions.

HSBC’s charges are a disproportionate penalty and

therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to

common law. Despite repeated requests, HSBC has

not been able to justify them. As a disproportionate

penalty they are invalid under the Unfair (Contracts)

Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in

Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Para.8 and

sch.2(1)(e). In the event that the charges are not a

penalty then they are unreasonable within the

meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act

1982 s.15. I wish to claim £1,052.00 in charges

taken by the HSBC over the last 6 years, plus

£278.14 in interest levied on them. (Cost breakdown

available if required.) I claim interest under section

69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8%

a year from 16/06/00-20/06/06: £252.43 on the

charges and £42.62 on the interest, making a total

of £1625.19. I also wish to claim interest at the

same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier

payment at a daily rate of £0.22."

 

Not sure where to attach the schedule of costs, so have referred to it and will send it if they need it. I'm about to submit the claim, and will open a 'parachute account' aswell, as various forum people have recommended.

 

I'm a bit worried though, about getting my account closed down for 'commercial reasons' (i.e. I've annoyed them). I have an overdraft, which I just wouldn't be able to pay off without getting the charges refunded.

 

Is it likely that they will close it down BEFORE refunding anything, just out of spite? If so, I may be in trouble... Or will they have to wait until legal proceedings are finished before doing this?

 

Thanks again for your continued support, everyone...!

[TaylorMade]

Good luck Wendy - I'm a bit behind you, but I fully intend to 'annoy' HSBC as well. As soon as I have all my figures together, it's LETTER TIME

[WendyN]

Well, according to someone else on the forum, the bank closed his account AFTER they refunded him, so here goes...

 

MCOL claim submitted tonight, will keep you posted...!

 

HSBC Letter sent: 19/06/06

LBA Letter sent: 10/07/06

MCOL claim submitted: 25/07/06

[sar011279]

Your on the home stretch now. They will probably acknowledge your claim and then write to you asking for the breakdown of charges. Good luck!

[WendyN]

Hi guys,

 

The HSBC have 'acknowledged' my claim on 31st July - I think that gives them an extra 14 days to respond. They haven't asked to see the breakdown of charges yet though. Was thinking of faxing it through to them anyway though, as I'm off on holiday at the end of the week. Will keep you posted...

 

W

 

HSBC

HSBC Letter sent: 19/06/06 - £1,330.14

LBA Letter sent: 10/07/06 - £1,330.14

MCOL claim submitted: 25/07/06 - £1625.19

[WendyN]

Good morning everybody,

and what a fine and lovely morning it is!

 

I received the following letter today from DG Solicitors:

______________

We are instructed by HSBC Bank plc in respect of the claim you have recently issued.

 

HSBC is entirely confident that its charges are reasonable, are properly and fully disclosed in its terms and conditions, and that it would successfully resist any challenge in the Courts in relation to them.

 

HSBC is, however, mindful of the management time and irrecoverable legal costs associated with litigation in the small claims regime. For those commercial reasons alone, and without and admission of liability whatsoever, HSBC is prepared to make a payment to you in the sum of £xxx.xx [note: this was the full amount of the claim, including the moneyclaim online fees] representing the charges applied in full and final settlement of this matter. HSBC does, reasonably, require your confirmation that you will treat this payment as confidential.

 

If you accept this proposal please sign and return the enclosed copy of this letter to me and I will arrange for a refund to be made to you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

DG Solicitors

 

I accept the sum of £xxx.xx in full and final settlement of my claim against HSBC. I agree to keep the fact of my claim and HSBC’s ex gratia payment strictly confidential.

 

Signed ………………….. Dated ………………..

_________________

 

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY! How cool is that?!

 

As other people on the forums have pointed out, there is no reason why I should have to sign a confidentiality agreement, seeing as it's my money in the first place. I will therefore be sending the following letter to them tomorrow:

____________

Dear 'DG Solicitors',

 

I refer to your letter dated XXX (your reference DMD). As I have previously advised your client, I am happy to receive repayment of monies taken from my account by HSBC and will therefore accept the payment you have proposed of £xxx.xx as full payment of the amount owed to me. Once that payment is made, I will consider this matter resolved and closed.

 

I do not feel it necessary, nor do I intend to sign any confidentiality or non-disclosure agreement as you have proposed.

 

Yours faithfully,

 

Name

Address

__________

 

Thanks to Cowboy and his extremely informative thread:

My successful claim against HSBC (full record)

 

Still can't quite believe that they are going to give it back! I'm off on holiday in a couple of hours, so this is a lovely surprise. Will let you know once I've got it all confirmed with them, and Consumer Action Group will definitely be getting a donation!

 

Thanks again for everything,

 

Wendy

[angela1606]

fan blinking tastic well done

[WendyN]

Hello,

 

waited until Monday to send my reply to DG solicitors in the end, as I didn't want my bank account to be frozen or anything horrible whilst I was on holiday. Looking at the posts on these forums, HSBC try all sorts of tricks. I am now waiting for the money to paid into my account, and have my letters with my new bank account details for all my direct debits ready and waiting, should they try anything. Will let you know when the money is paid in...

 

W

[WendyN]

Hello,

 

All the money has now been paid in.

 

However!

a) I received a letter from DG Solicitors this morning, thanking me 'for returning the signed settlement letter'. So I sent a letter back first thing this morning setting them straight, enclosing copies of the unsigned letters just to make sure! Anyone else receiving these letters - beware of HSBC trying to make out that you signed their agreements anyway!

b) I have just gone into MCOL to say that I had settled the claim, and got the following status update: Defence

You are unable to take any further action online on this claim.

 

The Defendant disputes the whole amount you have claimed. Your claim cannot proceed online and will be transferred to the appropriate court for continuation. You will receive confirmation to where the claim has been transferred to shortly.

This is inaccurate, as HSBC have in fact settled out of court, within the 28 day deadline, which doesn't expire until next Thursday.

 

I certainly haven't done this - and I don't know why they would have.

 

Any ideas?

 

W

[WendyN]

Hi again,

 

just DG Solicitors putting a defence in straight away that they had settled out of court. They were quick off the mark - the money only went in that day!

 

Cheers for your help everybody!

 

Wendy

 

HSBC

HSBC Letter sent: 19/06/06 - £1,330.14

LBA Letter sent: 10/07/06 - £1,330.14

MCOL claim submitted: 25/07/06 -£1625.19 + £120 costs

HSBC Settled in full 17/08/06 - £1745.19 - yay!

[sar011279]

Well done Wendy, make sure you call the mcol helpline and tell them that it's been settled.

Congratualtions again.... you won!!!