OFT v Banks - **Don't panic!!!**

[eggopp]

Taking Yorkshire Bank to court for my elderly neighbour, not a significant amount just over 400 squid. Recieved a letter today stating Sitting at Northampton County Court

 

 

IT IS ORDERED THAT:

 

1) Following filing of a defence or holding defence the claim shall be stayed pending judgement in the Office of Fair Trading test case.

 

2) Liberty to apply with an explanation

 

Note: Any Party affected by this order may under rule 3.3 (5) apply to have it set aside, varied or stayed. Such a party must apply under Rule 23.3 within 14 days of service of this order. (The order was drawn on 20 August)

 

So Question Do i apply to set the stay aside? and carry on or as this is a direction for a named District Judge do i leave it and wait till the text case is heard?

[The Phantom]

I suppose that would be up to you

There are good templates here to request a stay to be lifted (the application will cost you though) or you could make an application to include a clause that will prevent the bank from imposing any further charges during the duration of the test case (there are a few threads on the site about a recent case in Luton where Barclays was told they could equally not continue to charge the claimant during the test case if they wanted to stay the case)

Or you could just leave it and wait until the test case is decided

 

What would you prefer to do ?

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/cases-stayed-pending-oft/108430-stays-info-guidance.html

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/111856-barclays-customer-wins-freeze.html

[charliedog]

Yes - just been looking at other posts to see what I have to do - I think I download form N244 off this site and complete and then send in to Leicester court with a fee of £35 ??? Would you think I should send another schedule of charges with it?

[eggopp]

Seeing as my neighbours are elderly disabled pensioners, there not happy about paying to apply for a stay to be set aside even though their case is in my view (and others) really strong, looks like this ones going to have to be a case of sit and wait..

 

I am tempted to just pay for the stay to be set aside but then all post goes to them and in a sense thats betraying there wishes. I have however written back to the Yorkshire Bank to remind them they are not permitted to take there benefits as charges in accordance with the appropriate Act and Legislation, despite this im sure that Yorkshire bank are not interested in this..

 

Ive even been to the local branch previously witht he legislation to be told by the manager, she never heard of it before lmao (yeah ok) Ive invited Yorkshire bank to thoroughly inspect there income and as the court will see when i produce the bundle (after the test case) the bank have caused additional distress by taking there benefits, pretty obvious thats all the income they get as its clearly stated 'benefits'

 

Anyway, thats just the update lets hope OFT beat the heck out of the banks....

 

On a lighter note, i have a case going through the courts myself.. Halifax Mortgages, with charges etc, had the same letter as my neighbour just worded differently to stress to me that no payments will be made until after the court case, then today a letter saying sign here and we will pay you in full and final settlement... typical halifax not knowing which hand is doing what so ive signed and in effect they have settled, just wish it was as easy for my neighbour.

[Augustus]

Bookworm,

 

I've just started my claim requesting statements for the last 6 years from Abbey national, everyone is tell me that Abbey is the worst for stalling.

Can I continue ? and am I likely to lose the right to get my charges back

due to this new ruling...giving the banks power to put on hold all claims.

[un1boy]

Augustus, keep going - they will probably be granted a stay anyway. If your claim is in the system when the test case is heard and if the banks lose, then it makes it easier for you to get your money back.

[un1boy]

Guys,

 

What do we think the likelyhood of the banks losing really is?

[stonedecroze]

Guys,

 

What do we think the likelyhood of the banks losing really is?

 

Personaly I think they are very likely to lose, and they are just using the time it will take as a delaying tactic, hoping that new claimants will just give up and not bother whilst at the same time finding other ways to rip us off. It is standard business practice that large turnover with small profits generate large profits. Do we see the banks making these charges to the big customers. No, If they are short of cash an immediate overdraft of six figure sums is available, whilst they charge us £39 for going pence overdrawn. The banks are now finding out that the little customers when they all get together ARE as powerfull as the big corparations and this has them seriously worried.

[adamc6671]

Bookworm,

 

I've just started my claim requesting statements for the last 6 years from Abbey national, everyone is tell me that Abbey is the worst for stalling.

Can I continue ? and am I likely to lose the right to get my charges back

due to this new ruling...giving the banks power to put on hold all claims.

 

 

Hi Augustus

 

For a claim against Abbey, it could be well worth your while having a read of GaryH's posts here -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/111571-abbey-court-hearings-important.html

 

and here -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/abbey-bank/111050-abbeys-new-service-charge.html

 

Hope that helps - Adam.

[pward33]

Seeing as my neighbours are elderly disabled pensioners, there not happy about paying to apply for a stay to be set aside even though their case is in my view (and others) really strong, looks like this ones going to have to be a case of sit and wait..

 

I am tempted to just pay for the stay to be set aside but then all post goes to them and in a sense thats betraying there wishes. I have however written back to the Yorkshire Bank to remind them they are not permitted to take there benefits as charges in accordance with the appropriate Act and Legislation, despite this im sure that Yorkshire bank are not interested in this..

 

Ive even been to the local branch previously witht he legislation to be told by the manager, she never heard of it before lmao (yeah ok) Ive invited Yorkshire bank to thoroughly inspect there income and as the court will see when i produce the bundle (after the test case) the bank have caused additional distress by taking there benefits, pretty obvious thats all the income they get as its clearly stated 'benefits'

 

Only just seen this, but wanted to point out that if they are on benefits, they don't need to pay court fees; indeed if they have paid fees to issue the claim already, or an AQ fee, they can apply for them to be refunded. They can do this now, incidentally, no need to wait for the case to conclude. Just ask the Court for form EX160 or download it from the Court Service website.

 

Hope that helps.

[pward33]

Here's the Court Service link for the EX160:

 

http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/HMCSCourtFinder/GetForms.do;jsessionid=0002384D4C777BBFD06EDB0C1832B3DD

[Glitterari]

Hi everyone,

 

I just wanted to know (and I know the this will have been answered 100's of times already but I am a time strapped student and don't have the time to go rifling for the answer so if someone could answer or post the link to the answer I would be most grateful) - for those peeps that have not yet even sent the initial letter to the bank asking for a refund of charges - is it worth still sending the letter or should it wait until after this test case has gone through?

 

This is because several of my friends who I couldn't convince to reclaim their charges when I reclaimed my own over a year ago have now decided they would like to start the process having seen all the media attention.

 

Cheers

[oneofakind]

Glitterari,

Get them to send the letters in. Regardless of the test case, the sooner the process is started, the sooner it will finish!

 

[charliedog]

Hi just about to prepare a letter to appeal against stay - but getting tired and fed up of keep paying court fees not knowing when this will all be settled..keep nudging DG but never had a letter from them or anything - claim was with the court in May before all of this but still been stayed by judge..and hsbc still keep applying charges - in the statement for the N244 [appeal to lift stay] do I add the "overview" at the end about the banks not being allowed to charge until test case is done .. if I cannot have all my charges refunded under that same banner? Also just wondering - will the courts be keeping all the "stayed" cases in one file so if it all goes in our favour [ the customer] will the courts then contact us to recommence the proceedings ??

[Audreygreeneyes]

you keep that over view for the actual hearing. you just submit your reasons in part C and leave it at the,......

 

Charlie there is no point in nudging DG . they will nto answer you. they werent before and since the oft announcement the def arent..............

 

all you have to comply with and focus on is keepign court deadlines and prepareing for your hearign when you get the date through............

[charliedog]

Thanks for that age - but the judge doesn't HAVE to accept the appeal does he? He could say "thought about it and no you can't have stay lifted!!" If that happens do I just have to wait until Leicester court contact me in future re the test case and the results at that time?

[mattemotion]

Just heard on Radio 5 news that LTSB are reducing their O/D penalties! Sounded like a pre-emptive move in light of the OFT case. Are the banks on the run!

 

I'm just about to send in my application for removal of the stay. Should I hold off to include something about this?

 

The impression it gives is that Lloyds TSB are worried re the outcome.

 

Thoughts...?

 

Matt

[Audreygreeneyes]

Charlie they have to give you either the right to appeal in writing or ask for ahearing. . no they do not havet to grant you the removal or infact them they stay. that is down to the judge............adn it all depends on the legal issues if any of the court cpr have been breached that gives leave to appeal to the high court. so hang in there:)

[Audreygreeneyes]

that is kind of what I expected matt, give that it is rumoured they are going to pull out the test case.. I think they are hoping this will prevent them being affected in the long run by the oft test case........

 

If you have the time, I would hang fire for 24-48 hours and see if we can find anythingon the web or in the papers about this as it will most def bulk up your case:)

[nicsussex]

that is kind of what I expected matt, give that it is rumoured they are going to pull out the test case.. I think they are hoping this will prevent them being affected in the long run by the oft test case........

 

If you have the time, I would hang fire for 24-48 hours and see if we can find anythingon the web or in the papers about this as it will most def bulk up your case:)

 

I really can't see that they will be pulling out of the test case and these changes in the charges they will claim are purely for commercial reasons, the other banks will undoubtedly follow suit in the not too distant future

[GaryH]

Just heard on Radio 5 news that LTSB are reducing their O/D penalties! Sounded like a pre-emptive move in light of the OFT case. Are the banks on the run!

 

I'm just about to send in my application for removal of the stay. Should I hold off to include something about this?

 

The impression it gives is that Lloyds TSB are worried re the outcome.

 

Thoughts...?

 

Matt

They aren't really on the run, its soley for PR purposes IMO. They are painting the picture of having "listened" to their customers and all that rubbish, plus they are now going to give you notice before they sting you so they can say that if you get a charge its all completely your own fault. It clearly is a pre-emptive move, but its not hugely significant, as Lloyds never claimed their charges to be proportionate to their costs anyway. When and if Halifax and Abbey follow suit then that would be slightly more significant.

 

As for the crazy notion that they are going to suddenly pull out of the test case - sorry, but it just ain't going to happen! (unfortunately)

[stonedecroze]

I completely agree with Gary, is also sound business move on their part. Lots of disgruntled bank customers will be moving their accounts because of lower charges, and MORE lower charges add up to bigger PROFITS

[mattemotion]

Whether its for commercial reasons, PR or whatever, the inference is surely that there is no need for their charges to be as high as they currently are. Certainly, the removal of the 29% interest rate, is the removal of a very obvious penalty and the considerable reduction in the penalty charges surely suggests that, whilst they have always argued these were fair and reasonable, they can infact be considerably cheaper! Therefore, this surely effects their previous arguement and may effect the judges consideration with regard to stays.

 

The more I think about it, it comes across as an admission that their penalties were not at all reasonable or fair.

 

Whilst I have no idear how to go about it, I feel it would be a wasted oportunity not to use it.

 

Matt

[mattemotion]

Ok, I'm obviously out on my own with these thoughts.

 

I've sent my application for removal of the stay (thanks garyh for the template), but decided not to mention LTSB announcement. I figure I might be able to use this to argue something else later, not putting all my eggs in one basket.

 

Gary, why would it be more significant if Halifax or Abbey follow suit?

Matt

[stonedecroze]

Prob because LTSB are a UK bank, whereas the others are International, therefore any ruling against them would be less serious financially.