Private Parking - from the other side

[Guest interesting]

The content of this post has been removed by the moderator blueskies.

 

I could have deleted the post but I will instead take the opportunity to warn all people posting in this thread that personal attacks are not permitted within this forum.

 

I can see that passions are raised by this subject, and rightly so. Let's use this energy to work together to find a solution. Where there are disagreements and you need to back an argument please attempt to find external evidence for your arguments, such as precedent cases and reliable legal documentation. Until such time these issues are tested in court then what is posted is your own opinion and, although people can be challenged about it, it should not be called wrong by other users.

 

Please redirect your energies towards the lowlife companies we are fighting.

 

THE ABOVE IS A SUBSTITUTE POST AUTHORED BY BLUESKIES AND WAS NOT WRITTEN BY OR POSTED BY INTERESTING

[green_and_mean]

I'm so confused I'm beginning to think I am Perky!!

[legaladviser]

The content of this post has been removed by the moderator blueskies.

 

I could have deleted the post but I will instead take the opportunity to warn all people posting in this thread that personal attacks are not permitted within this forum.

 

I can see that passions are raised by this subject, and rightly so. Let's use this energy to work together to find a solution. Where there are disagreements and you need to back an argument please attempt to find external evidence for your arguments, such as precedent cases and reliable legal documentation. Until such time these issues are tested in court then what is posted is your own opinion and, although people can be challenged about it, it should not be called wrong by other users.

 

Please redirect your energies towards the lowlife companies we are fighting.

 

THE ABOVE IS A SUBSTITUTE POST AUTHORED BY BLUESKIES AND WAS NOT WRITTEN BY OR POSTED BY LEGALADVISOR

[Muggerbee]

I am not speaking for him but very interested in this whole episode that has gone silly since 3/4 people from pepipoo have come over and hijacked this forum and given no actual new advice and stirred things up and cased problems with members who have used this site for sometime.

If you accuse an individual of an act, in this case breaching data protection then you should support your accusations rather than stating 'lets end it there'.

I saw the posts which perky stated he could not supply personal information of people to you and my understanding of data protection would lead me to understand that is very true so you were asking someone to break the law by supplying you that information I also understand that once a case goes to court it is a public record and therefore anyone can get the information required I see nothing wrong in his response and he was acting within the law in his reply to you.

I am not a lawyer so feel free if I have said anything legally incorrect.

Perky has been made a scapegoat by the moderators of this site I think that is wrong and whilst I accept he posted some personal information so did other members of this site who have not been treated in the same way by modertaors and I can only suspect that is because the modertaors have not been totally impartial.

 

If we need to open that can of worms again, ignoring the fact that both "interesting" and "perky88" misspell the word "apparent" (apparant) the same way and that a "new" pepipoo member invited pepipoo members to view the original post or the fact that perky insinuated to me in a PM that he was using DPA restricted data or even the sheer numbers of PPC supporters that use the same ISP and the same node in the west midlands.

 

Just be honest, put your hands up and say we shot ourselves in the foot, there is more publicity on the search engines against PPC's and one company in particular than ever before and it's going to be a lot harder getting the bread out of the mouths of someones hungry children.

[Guest interesting]

Muggerbee Please post the details of this, I am very interested to see my IP is the same as perkys, dont be shy an IP is not private and if it is I will give you my permission to post it.

Legaladvisor you will see I added to the post, so your 5 words posted are not representative.

[green_and_mean]

Maybe Blueskies is Perky? lol

 

Just kidding!!

[Muggerbee]

Muggerbee Please post the details of this, I am very interested to see my IP is the same as perkys, dont be shy an IP is not private and if it is I will give you my permission to post it.

Legaladvisor you will see I added to the post, so your 5 words posted are not representative.

 

1/ the quote has been removed, but you were quoting yourself and saying that you must have read a different post in the 2nd person, i'm not one to cast aspersions but it did sound a bit like you'd forgotten who you were.

 

2/ i never said that you were on the same node as anyone else, if i feel like it you can ping me in china, englewood CA, costa rica or anywhere else I fancy, however it just begged the question as to why the huge reaction when the OP on Pepipoo just happened to use the same node as someone in wolverhampton would ? possibly forgot to change proxies ??

 

3/ it's all a distraction anyway you all know you're peeing into the wind and looking desperately for a towel as everyone knows or is soon made aware of the game being played.

[blueskies]

For the record the IP addresses used by perky and interesting are completely different as are their registration email addresses.

 

I will also point out that each user has used only one IP address to access this site which makes using proxy servers unlikely.

 

I do not wish to see further allegations along this line. Please refer to the edited posts above

[Muggerbee]

Blueskies

 

Thanks for your concern, however there are no allegations in the post towards any individual, just a statement of fact that the OP of the post in pepipoo which said come and see how great a certain CAG member is, originated from Wolverhampton.

 

Point 3 was the killer really

[petej2811]

With Parking costing £2.50 or more per hour in most parts of London a £10 penalty would be pointless. Even if the penatly was the same as the total cost of parking for the day unless you got caught everyday you would be quids in and not bother paying.Why do you think that penatly fares on trains/buses are £20+ when the fare is often only a few pounds? Simply because based on the chances of getting caught if the penalty is the same as the cost people would take the risk.

 

I don't live in London and so the bizarre economy of scale that exists within the M25 doesn't hold any great interest for me.

 

This is not comparable to a statutory fine though. That's a dead argument.

[petej2811]

So if I start a business I have to ask all my customers how much they fancy paying or its unfair, lol!!?

 

In 2007 with a competitive market and a slowing economy you'd have to be pretty stupid to not know what your customers wanted to pay and expect to pay before you start.

 

This is a market and the market can only take what the market can take. Clearly the market is starting to think that £70 a time for some minor parking transgression is going too far. And quite right too.

[green_and_mean]

This is not comparable to a statutory fine though. That's a dead argument.

 

The principle is the same if the charge levied for not paying was the same as the original cost no one would pay unless caught.

[green_and_mean]

In 2007 with a competitive market and a slowing economy you'd have to be pretty stupid to not know what your customers wanted to pay and expect to pay before you start.

 

This is a market and the market can only take what the market can take. Clearly the market is starting to think that £70 a time for some minor parking transgression is going too far. And quite right too.

 

That is the point £70 is supposed to put people off parking! If they thought it was reasonable they would park there, defeating the point of keeping the private land free for the land owners use.

[petej2811]

The principle is the same if the charge levied for not paying was the same as the original cost no one would pay unless caught.

 

I'm afraid its not. One is a statutory fine backed by legislation. The other relies on contract law. Two very different things which share no common principle. That's my last say on that.

[petej2811]

That is the point £70 is supposed to put people off parking! If they thought it was reasonable they would park there, defeating the point of keeping the private land free for the land owners use.

 

But thereby making the money a penalty and quite unenforceable. Oh the woe.

 

Is something better than nothing?

[Muggerbee]

That is the point £70 is supposed to put people off parking! If they thought it was reasonable they would park there, defeating the point of keeping the private land free for the land owners use.

 

In one ear and out the other I made that point a whole page back, the scots have it sussed, if you want the land for your own use and no one elses then buy a gate. If however you want to try it on for personal gain then become a PPC.

[green_and_mean]

In one ear and out the other I made that point a whole page back, the scots have it sussed, if you want the land for your own use and no one elses then buy a gate. If however you want to try it on for personal gain then become a PPC.

 

 

A good idea in theory but not always a workable solution, how would a DIY superstore allow customers to park but stop commuters parking free all day stopping genuine customers parking?

[Muggerbee]

Ask a Scot ?

[petej2811]

Ask a Scot ?

 

That said, the Scots have it well for clamping. Private parking is not such a rosy proposition in Scotland. Email me for the case.

 

PJ

[Alianmid]

Having recently received help from people on this site regarding a problem I have with Euro Car Parks I have been following the debates in various threads pertinent to Private parking with interest. In my problem case the site does not have a commuter problem nor is near to any business park or offices, it is all retail - What puzzles me is why the landlord of a shopping mall or one of his major tenants would allow a parking set up which effectively penalises customers for staying and doing the very thing that they want them to do which is shop and spend money - I would have thought that they would want people to stay and visit every outlet and if necessary come back several times a day to make purchases - I do not get it! As a simple layman all the esoteric guff about the landlord and trespass I have read from Perky and similar people is utter b******s - It is self evident that PPC's are purely a money making device. - Do the drones writing the tickets get paid a percentage or on the number they issue?

[Muggerbee]

Having recently received help from people on this site regarding a problem I have with Euro Car Parks I have been following the debates in various threads pertinent to Private parking with interest. In my problem case the site does not have a commuter problem nor is near to any business park or offices, it is all retail - What puzzles me is why the landlord of a shopping mall or one of his major tenants would allow a parking set up which effectively penalises customers for staying and doing the very thing that they want them to do which is shop and spend money - I would have thought that they would want people to stay and visit every outlet and if necessary come back several times a day to make purchases - I do not get it! As a simple layman all the esoteric guff about the landlord and trespass I have read from Perky and similar people is utter b******s - It is self evident that PPC's are purely a money making device. - Do the drones writing the tickets get paid a percentage or on the number they issue?

 

Alan

 

in answer to your question about recompense, in the case of one company who pay the "largest amount of commission in the uk" if they issue the ticket themselves then they pay the landowner 10 pounds per ticket, if the landowner uses their DIY kit they pay 25 pounds per ticket issued.

[Guest perky88]

Private Parking enforcement (ticketing) does work in Scotland, in the same way as it does in England.

Scotland has no tresspass but the contractual agreement argument is used in many parking areas.

 

The easiest way to get PPCs out of business is simple ... Just park where you are supposed to ... Its not a difficult thing to do .. If it says Private Parking etc.. then its PRIVATE PARKING ... if it says NCP 20p per hour, then its obvious its a public car park.

 

PPCs are only in business because people make the choice to park where they shouldnt either to save paying the 20p or whatever, or they want to take a chance and then they get caught they winge and bleat on about how unfair it its etc.....

 

So simple... if you all hate PPCs, just stop parking where you shouldnt and then they issue no tickets and they go out of business !!!!!!!!!!!

[legaladviser]

On the contrary PPCs are in business for one thing: to make money. Other people's money that they are not entitled to.

 

Perky is now trying a new argument. It is not the fault of the greedy, pernicious PPC, it is all the motorists fault. People bring this treatment on themselves when they park where they shouldn't. It doesn't work like that as he well knows. Many tickets are issued by chancers where the recipient does not even know they are on private land, due to non existent or inadequate signage. Many tickets are issued by chancers at retail parks and the like for non existent or minor issues like overstaying or being an inch over the graffiti they call a parking bay. Many are just issued because some chancer is hiding in the bushes wanting to make his daily quota.

 

We could all avoid mugging by not going out at night. But that does not make mugging right, does it? The proliferation of PPCs is because some very shady, greedy people have spotted a chance to make a quick buck. To dress it up as some laudable service or blame the victim is understandable from someone who makes his living this way. But reasonable people will not be fooled.

[Alianmid]

Legal adviser seems to have got it in one - Why on Earth would retailers NOT want me to park and go spending in there outlets. - Muggerbee do we know how much the numpty parking attendants who police these parks get remunerated - For example are they on some kind of commission? - I am trying to establish if there is motive for them to falsify tickets in order to boost the pay packet which appears to have happened in my case - Not that I expect to ever have to make a defence - But it would be interesting to know.

[Guest perky88]

Yes but you have missed the point legaladvisor.

If the driver/person did not park somewhere they were not supposed to in the first place then there would not be the guy in the bushes waiting to pounce on them, its not that difficult to understand is it ?