Chiggers -vs- HSBC

[Chiggers]

This could be a very long story, so I've tried to cut it down as much aas possible. I would really appreciate any input or ideas.

 

Took out a student account with HSBC whilst at Uni (9 years ago). Spent much time with bank charges! Then became self employed two years ago, which means salary is staggered, hence resulting in bank charges!

 

1/ In feb 07 I asked HSBC for all statements.

2/ On 1st March 07 I sent request letter to HSBC asking for repayment (with all charges highlighted, interest calculated etc). The amount claimed for totals around £4000.

3/ Response from bank saying they are looking into it.

4/ send second letter, but hear nothing back within 14 days.

5/ Apply for Court Hearing.

6/ Right at the last minute HSBC put in a defence!

7/ The court hearing is now set for 2nd August. The Notice states the following:

"Before the claim is listed for hearing, the judge has ordered that a preliminary hearing should take place to consider whether the claim can be disposed of because the defendant has no real prospect of success at a final hearing"

The General Form of Judegment states "At this hearing the court will consider either to stay the claim pending the decision in a test case, or to give directions for this claim to be heard as a test case".

8/ In the third week of June I send a nudge to the Solicitors (DG).

9/ I eventually hear back with an offer for £1000!! I use details on your forums to send back a letter requesting the full claim plus court costs - totalling £4230. (I can post on all correspondance letters if anyone wants to see them!)

10/ I hear nothing back from the Solicitors (or from Mr Loker, Quality Services Manager at HSBC who I sent a copy of the letter to).

11/ On 16th July I send another nudge letter stating that it would be beneficial to DG to settle out of Court etc (again using details posted on forums) and that I would accept £4230 as full settlement. I sent the letter recorded delivery to DG and Mr Loker. I also emailed DG Solicitors a copy.

 

I have still heard nothing back. I have tried phoning DG but now they have a standard divert on their number, which now asks me to send a letter - doesn't give me the option to leave a voicemail!!

 

I'm thinking of sending them a further nudge by fax on Monday (if I have heard nothing) - what do you think??

 

Plus, is this usual for DG to leave it so late to settle before Court date?? Do you think that I will have to go to Court?? Getting panicky now!!

 

Please help!

[jowalshy]

I there. I too had a prelim hearing. It was set for 25th July (next Wednesday) I sent a mini court bundle to DG 14 days before the prelim hearing and received a full offer the other day. Here is a link to my thread it may answer a few questions you may have:-

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/hsbc-fd-hfc-successes/72807-jw-hsbc-new-post.html

[chauvesouris]

This isn't late - you've got two weeks before the court date!

 

You almost certainly won't end up in court. But if you do, you should resist a stay pending a decision in a test case - it is just more delay and is playing into the hands of HSBC. And you should push for the defence to be struck out as an abuse of process and for lack of prospect of success.

 

You might as well keep nudging DG - just so they know you haven't lost interest. I expect you'll get your offer next week. Good luck.

[Chiggers]

Thanks for your input. I've had a look at the mini court bundle on the forum, so I'm going to adapt it to my case over the weekend. I nearly panicked when your reply said it should be before 14 days - that was yesterday!!!!

 

However, the General Form of Judgement states:

 

"4. Not less than 14 days before the preliminary hearing, the Defendant shall file with the Court and serve upon the Claimant details of any cases proceeding as a test case, the decision in which will determine the issues in this claim.

 

5. The Claimant may make any representations to the Court in writing provided these are received by the court and served on the Defendant no less than 5 days before the preliminary hearing."

 

So, if I send my bundle on Monday to the Court and DG, this is 10days before hearing - do you think this will be ok??

 

Also, as we are past the 14 days before hearing, am I correct in thinking that (as I haven't received anything in the post) DG/HSBC can now not send any details of the case to the Court?? What exactly does this mean?

 

With my bundle should I attach the Court Judgement Form, highlighting the sections which states they should have responded 14 days before hearing, and therefore nudge them to settle??

 

Thanks.

[chauvesouris]

You are right that DG should have responded by now. But the judge always has discretion to be flexible with dates like this (although he also has the power to take their non-compliance into account in his judgment/decisions). But certainly mention to DG the fact that they've missed the deadline.

 

What were 1, 2 and 3?

 

Paragraph 5 is basically asking you to tell the judge what you want him to do - so that he can consider it - if you don't tell him what you want, you will only get it if he is a master of guessing. This is where you can ask for the defence to be struck out. But don't forget to send a copy to DG too.

 

Remember also that the hearing in August is not a full hearing - it is just to decide what happens next. Although I am pretty sure you'll get a full offer by then.

[Chiggers]

Parts 1,2 and 3 just relate to the date and place of the hearing, and that the claim has been ordered to the small claims track.

 

I'm just printing out my bundle (methinks I'm going to run out of ink though!!), and just noticed that I need to add terms and conditions for the account. Have looked on HSBC's website, but can't seem to find them. Any ideas???

 

Also, when you say the Judge wants me to tell him what to do, what exactly should I put - I mean do I need to provide reference to laws/rules? Presumably I can't write and just say I want HSBC to be struck out!!?? (Sorry for being stupid!!)

 

Thanks for all your help anyways.

[Chiggers]

Just one more thing - can I claim for interest during the 6 months that this dispute has been going on? Can I also claim for expenses due to Court case (eg 1 day's salary, travel expenses) if this case goes that far - or do you think that is pushing it??

[Chiggers]

Just looked at your thread Jo - very interesting read. Glad you won! Can't believe it got so close to your prelim hearing - guess that takes a little weight off my mind!

[Castlebest]

Hiya Chiggers, this came from a set of directions issued to another member so was writen by a District Judge, should give you some ideas for wording relating to strike outs.

 

The defence be struck out as an abuse of process.

 

If the defendant seeks to set aside the strike out, the Defendant shall, with its application attach a schedule of all the cases where a similar defence has been filed and where they allowed the claim to go to trial and did not settle giving details of the action number, the court and the date of adjudication by the court.

 

pete

[jowalshy]

You will win in the end..Good luck

[chauvesouris]

You're certainly not being stupid, Chiggers!

 

The thing to remember about all this is that it is YOUR claim. You have issued proceedings in court because you want something done. Up to a point, it will be obvious to the judge what you want, and he is more than capable of sorting it out without asking you which of the tools at his disposal he should use. However, if you ask him to use a certain tool then he is in a position to consider your suggestion - if you don't ask you're less likely to get.

 

You don't necessarily need to quote the exact part of the Civil Procedure Rules you're asking him to apply, but it never hurts if you do. Strike outs are done under Part 3, and should be applied for as soon as possible - and the rules say they prefer you to do it before the case is allocated (to a track) but they can still consider it now - and it can't do any harm.

 

So you might say something like:

 

"It is contended that the defendant has no intention of contesting this case in court, and is using the delays inherent in the court process to put off making the settlement that they will inevitably make. On this basis I respectfully request that the defence case be struck out under Part 3 of the Civil Procedure Rules (specifically, rule 3.4(1)(b)) as an abuse of process."

 

You could (and probably should) include here a list of cases where HSBC have settled out of court - you can get this from the Survey Results link at the top of the page. This will support what you are saying and give the judge more reason to give you your strike out order.

 

On the question of interest, it is good practice to work out what the daily interest on your claim is and state this on your schedule of charges - for the sake of clarity. And yes, you keep applying interest until you get a settlement (because the court would apply interest to the date of judgment if it got that far).

[Chiggers]

Thanks for all the info - still putting my court bundle together!

Where exactly do I get the list of where Hsbc has settled out of court??? I've been to the Survey results link, but can't seem to be able to get onto anything for Hsbc??

 

Thanks

[Chiggers]

Help!!!!!!!

 

Does anyone have anything downloadable that I can attach with my letter to the Court - with regards to asking judge to respectfully strike the defence out of court???

 

I wanted to put something along the lines of:

 

The Claimaant respectfully requests that an order may be made as follows:

 

1. That the Defence be struck out as it is an abuse of process, pursuant to rule 3.4 (2)(b) of the Civil Procedure Rules, on the basis that the Defendant has filed a template defence then subsequently settled each and every other claim of this nature.

Since May 2006, I am aware of over 100 clims of this nature in which the Defendant has filed an acknowledgement of service, then a Defence, then has breached the order for pre-hearing directions, then has finally settled without liability shortly in advance of the hearing or trial.

 

 

However, I need to attached smaple list of similar cliams, including their claim numbers, but cannot find anything anywhere!!

 

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jowalshy]

Here is the link to settled claims which shows the claim No etc. If when you print it off, enlarge the font size. It should then print off a bit clearer.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=138&Itemid=82

[Chiggers]

Thank you so so so so much!!! You are an absolute star! I can now send of my bundle to the court with covering letter requesting defence be struck out.Yeah! Perhaps cutting it a little bit fine, but I guess these things were sent to test us!!

 

Hsbc have now phoned 8 times in last 3 days (yes over weekend, at during evening) requesting I pay overdraft off!! I seriously hate them, and will not stop until I win!!!

 

(Want to say a very rude word but shall refrain!!)

 

Thanks everyone for their help.

[jowalshy]

If they call again DO NOT go through the security bit. Tell them that if they wish to talk to you, to put it in writing.