Duffers mum v Sainsburys Bank

[postggj]

Hi duffers mum

 

may i ask how old the sainsburys is

 

ive been trying to find one from 2005

 

barmy, orrible and stupid sent one to a pal of mine,

 

ime sure they made up the agreement and i need to find one to compare

 

any takers

[Duffers Mum]

The account is from 2002 and i've been backwards and forwards with Sainsburys for a few years now, they've obvioulsy had enough and flogged it off to Crapot, who've sent me a reconstructed agreement, unfortunately i didn't follow the advice from this site and carried on making payments to Sainburys so i've got 6 years till its SB plenty of time for Crapot to play silly games. I just ignored Barmy Orrible and Stupid when they wrote to me, kept receiving the same old letters every 3 months. The document Crapot have sent me is a load of rubbish but they insist its a true copy...guess it will be up to the court to decide if they go down the road, but I'm quietly confident

[postggj]

Thanks

 

if anyone locates a 2005 sainsburys agreement then send me a pm

 

many thanks

[Duffers Mum]

Quick update..sent a letter off to Crapot before I went away advising them they have not provided the information I requested, returned from holiday today to find another threat-o-gram, saying the full balance is now due (they have whacked on another load of interest) I guess that means the agreement has definately been terminated now? I have no intention of responding anymore to them, they can't provide what i have requested so I guess I'll have to wait and see now if they take me to court

[Duffers Mum]

Received another letter from Crapot telling me the that case laws shows a true copy does not mean an exact copy they also state they have requested Sainsburys provide a copy of the signed credit agreement, be interesting to see if Sainsburys can do this as they only ever provided an application form to me and no T&C's relevat to the date of the account! They also say that the purpose of the CCA is for consumer protection not the avoidance of debt which they believe I am attempting in this matter! Hilarious....and if I intend to challenge the enforcability of the credit agreement I must apply to the court to obtain a declaration of unenforceability...where do they get this rubbish from? I know its up to them to prove they can collect on an alleged debt and at the moment what they have provided me with would not allow that...I have to contact them otherewise my account will be escalated...plus the balance has increased again....think I might send them a little reply....just so they know that I know they are talking rubbish..again!

[Deb T]

declaration of? That is certainly one for the ' best outlandish comment from an DCA* what utter tripe, I hope you've kept a copy of the letter?

 

So, you've got to go to court to prove that the debt cannot be collected? ummm, they want the money, surely it's for them to prove that it is enforceable

but then again they would know this and of course you're now defending a claim? hahah! ridiculous.

 

Personally I wouldn't send them anything further, it's what they want you to do, keep the contact going etc....escalate an unenforceable debt? How are they

going to do that?

[Duffers Mum]

I typed out a letter all ready to send and then thought...nawww can't be bothered communicating with them any more, they get on my pip! I certainly have kept the letter they sent me, along with all the other ones....I'll wait and see what Sainsbury's provide them with...they originally got the reconstructed CCA from Sainsburys because its the same as what Sainsburys sent me, although previously Sainsburys had sent a copy of the original application form, I do of course still have the dodgy DN's etc to fall back on, if needs must. I find it amusing that they say if I don't contact them they will escalate up the collections ladder, the account was in dispute with Sainsbury's so shouldn't have been sold in the first place, no CCA, dodgy DN's and other things, but still they threaten court action and CCJ...unbelievable really! I'll keep the thread updated as and when I hear anything else!

[Duffers Mum]

Just checked my credit file and see that Crapot have added more interest. How on earth they can do this when the only provided me with a reconstructed agreement is making me really cross. They cannot prove my original agreement stated they could add interest/charges after default because they cannot provide a copy of that agreement. Surely they can't get away with this?

[debt4get]

well they can add what they like..however enforcing payment of what they are adding to the account is a different kettle of fish...they even added to my account when i was paying them..would have paid forever in that case...stopped payment cca etc in end told em to sling their hook or take me to court and explain their actions in a court of law..they declined

[Duffers Mum]

The last I heard from Crapot was last year, when they said they would contact Sainsburys for a copy of my CCA (which Sainsburys could never provide when I asked for it), all they have provided so far is a reconstructed cca which bears no resemblence to anything I would have signed...However they are still adding interest and the balance is increasing by quite a lot each month. Should I continue to ignore them and let them add the interest or should I contact them and tell them, once again that they should not be adding interest when they don't have an agreement which says they can|? There is about another 3 years before the default falls off my credit file, but over 5 years until it becomes statute barred because I was paying Sainsbury's a nominal amount...am getting quite worried about the increasing balance...my previous dealings with DCA's has never encountered any interest being added...advice would be appreciated.

 

Thanks

[Duffers Mum]

Crapot are still adding interest to my account, despite being unable to provide a copy of the CCA (other the reconstructed rubbish the provided last year), the balance has increased by almost £1,000 since they took the account over last year. I'm starting to get mighty fed up with it now...i've heard nothing from them for months and months, the last being they would contact the original company for a copy of the CCA, I don't want to contact them for fear they will start harrassing me all over again, but then again I don't see why they should be charging interest on something they can't prove is owing. Any ideas?

[debt4get]

yep as above ignore em..as i said they can add what they like..so what?? until they are prepared to put it before a court and then explain their actions i wouldnt even bother contacting them..if they are leaving you alone as it goes let sleeping dogs lie...unless your original agreement allowed them to add to the account then dont worry bout it....no cca no agreement this is never ever going to see inside a court room

[Duffers Mum]

Well they can't prove whether the original agreement allowed for interest to be added or not, because they can't provide the CCA! I know I shouldn't worry about it, but when I see the balance increasing I can't help it. This is the last one really to be causing me any problems M&S have just accepted a F&F of 30%, 1st Cretins haven't been in touch since I got their SD set aside with costs awarded in 2008, and another vanished off my credit file months ago, don't know where it went, but wont' worry about it, until it reappears!

[debt4get]

you can spend your time worrying bout it...but there is really not a lot of point....either they come up with the cca initiate court action, or they can add what they like till kingdom come....its not worth losing sleep over them honest....

[Duffers Mum]

Just before Christmas and out come the leeches! Received a letter with what Crapot say is the CCA, its what Sainsbury's originally sent me, no T&C's which of course should be included as should all the variants of the T&C's. I'm aware that things have changed now regarding CCA's, but my position has also changed and I'm now in the ranks of the great unemployed. The balance has increased on this account due to Crapots charges. I can offer them something as a F&F and I am inclined to do this because I just want to get shot of it now..the only other thing I can offer is £1 a month because i'm on JSA. If this went to court and I'm on benefits what would be the likely outcome?

 

Thanks

[miss muppet]

How about this DM, worth a shot I think under the CUPTR 2008:-

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?323135-Why-is-CAG-running-scared-of-pre-court-CCA-enforceability-arguments

[DonkeyB]

Personally I would not even think of offering any F&F until they comply with your s 78 request. They will just smell blood and pester you more.

 

What charges have they added? They can’t add anything if there’s no T&Cs to say they can. Idiots.

 

Have a read up of Carey v HSBC to determine what they have to supply –*it’s not ALL variants of T&Cs, just those applicable when the account was opened and those applicable when it was terminated. If they are recons, they MUST have your name and address on there, EXACTLY as they were when you took out the alleged agreement and also those in force when (if?) the account was terminated.

 

They cannot enforce while they remain in breach of a valid s 78 request – Phoenix Recoveries v Devendra Kotecha [2011] refers.

[Duffers Mum]

I've sent off my F&F offer to them now, but have stated I know they have not complied fully with my request. I really just want to be shot of it. If they don't accept then they will not get a penny, simples! They will have to take me to court and with no job, no income (bar the JSA which i'll only get for 6 months) i don't fancy their chances much **waves at guests** . I don't want to get involved in letter ping pong..i've moved on a lot with my life and have a good credit file now (bar the defaults which will drop off shortly), really don't want to risk a CCJ messing everything up again.

 

If it went to court..where would it stand with the dodgy Default Notices? Could it get chucked out for that?

[Duffers Mum]

They have added almost £1,000 of charges, despite my sending letters saying you don't have the CCA to prove you can do this...they just said the original agreement I signed would have allowed for this..yes I know...the very documnet they couldn't provide..hey ho...they are a bunch of ******** aren't they!

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Donkey B has this dead right, no CCA no pay or offer to pay.

[Duffers Mum]

They did send me the T&C's under seperate cover, but they are not contained within one document, although I don't think that makes any difference now..think i'm stuffed on this one, they turned down my F&F advising they would accept a figure in excess of 7 times the amount I offered, I could barely get the amount together that I offered, so no chance of anything higher, i'm unemployed, with a disability and little chance of finding a job..my JSA will expire in April and then i'll get nothing as DH will be expected to keep me (but not liable for my debts thankfully!) Meanwhile this bunch of leeches continue to add interest of almost £100 per month..dread to think what the outstanding balance will be by the time it goes to court (which i'm pretty sure it will do now). Any advice?

[miss muppet]

Hi DM, have been looking back over your thread and wondering, did you ever SAR Sainsburys, might be a good idea to do so and it might turn up some interesting stuff.

[Duffers Mum]

MM, my DH advised me to do just that today...so i will get onto it tomorrow! I presume I just send to their head office with the £10 fee?

[miss muppet]

Looking at the Return address they sent with OH's info looks like it is 10 Carlton Street, Halifax HX1 2AL and yes £10 postal order.

[miss muppet]

Yes, can confirm that now found letter address to Data Subject Access Request Team, Customer Relations and as above, Good Luck DM!